Day of the German

Yes, Poles fought for their freedom against communism, I know. And Germans died because they were against Hitler. The Jews weren't not the first who were send to the KZs, it were Germans, Social Democrates, Communists and others. There were a lot of Democratic and communist politicians imprisoned during the last free election. And the voters went to the election in an climate of fear, because the SA was ruling the streets. people where forced to give a public vote instead of a secret one as usual.

Edited by beorna - 21-Dec-2009 at 06:04

I have ss men in my family too. They were at SS-Div Nord and the Police-Division. They weren't volunteers. One of them died in 43, with the other one I didn't speak about this time, but he was proud too as far as I know. He and especially my aunt are speaking about the time in the good SS in opposite to those SS in the KZs. But this is fiction and not the truth. Both SS mixed their personal, wounded Weapon-SS men were commanded into KZs and people from KZs served in combat units of the SS. Of course SS units fought mostly very brave and felt proud but they were part of a criminal system. It would be better if they reflect with this. But of course to see that one fought for the wrong side is very hard. so they speak about their fair war aside with the Wehrmacht, but there is no fair war at all.

Edited by beorna - 21-Dec-2009 at 07:38

So how innocent was Poland?

Originally posted by beorna Yes, here it is. that's what I expected. That's the way the usual discussion goes. Say something against Poland and you're a Nazi. I am far away from being a Nazi and if you red my postings you can see that. Nothing of what you blame me I have said. But I don't wonder, if I read your given links. Unfortunately a lot of that links is incorrect and with an anti-Prussian or anti-German tendacy. But I am sure you don't care about that, cos the only Nationalist here are you.

There are two mainstreams about Prussia, the one hates all Prussian, calls it militarian and cruel, the other adores it as a garden of free religion and others. But are partly right and wrong. The Prussian state wasn't nationalistic for long times, you were Prussian if you served the state, unimportant what religion you had or what language you spoke. The most Prussian citizens felt Prussian, so germanisation of wider parts was a result of acculturation and not of pressure and force. Especially Polish groups stood in opposite to the state, but there were a lot of Poles who served the state. This Prussian way changed during the 19th, especially with the uprising Polish nationalism. And it became even more restrictly after 1871. But eg the "Kulturkampf" where Poles suffered was not a nationalistic fight, this fight Bismarck fought against oppositional German groups too. It was just the attempt to destroy enemies of the state. The attempt to Germanize the Prov. Posen failed by many reasons. But at the same time there was an attempt to Polonizise it too. And after 1918 a lot of Germans moved westwards, sometimes voluntarily sometimes forced by Poles. The German population of these areas was discriminized. That is not Nazi-propaganda. Long times of German-Polish history have especially from the german side nothing to do with Nationalism. That is just a later and wrong Interpretation. -

Originally posted by Mosquito   So how innocent was Poland?     Aye, old nazi talk coming from Goebbels and Hitler, blame Poland for WW2.   Same happened in Posen before.     What happend in Poznan?   [quote]  they had a anti-German, nationalistic policy

In1872 per special law, there were new restrictions of the local ond provincial self-administration of the eastern provinces and a school law. In 1873 the clerical responsibility for the school was stopped. In 1874 it followed the "Expatriierungsgesetz", that means that foreign priest can be expelled. In 1885  35.000 Polish und Jews who weren't Prussian citizens were send off, a behavior that was criticized in other parts of the Reich. Bismarck said: „We don't want polish foreigners, we have enough of our own.“ In 1886 it followed a law about German settlement in the provinces Posen and Westpreußen. Polish land should be bought with official money, they gave cheap credits to German settlers and restricted credits to Poles. But polish response was succesful. The prizes of the ground rose very high and a lot of Germans sold their land while Poles did not.  In 1904 the "Feuerstättengesetz" forbid polish Settlers to build houses on new bought land. In 1908 the "Enteignungsgesetz" made it possible to confiscate great polish farms (Großgrundbesitz). But it happened just four times, because even the Prussian administration didn't use it. 

Originally posted by Mosquito In free Poland 1918-1939 - such things never happend.

It was you who said this and I showed you that your statement was wrong. You are telling fairy tales.

Originally posted by beorna In1872 per special law, there were new restrictions of the local ond provincial self-administration of the eastern provinces and a school law. In 1873 the clerical responsibility for the school was stopped. In 1874 it followed the "Expatriierungsgesetz", that means that foreign priest can be expelled. In 1885  35.000 Polish und Jews who weren't Prussian citizens were send off, a behavior that was criticized in other parts of the Reich. Bismarck said: „We don't want polish foreigners, we have enough of our own.“ In 1886 it followed a law about German settlement in the provinces Posen and Westpreußen. Polish land should be bought with official money, they gave cheap credits to German settlers and restricted credits to Poles. But polish response was succesful. The prizes of the ground rose very high and a lot of Germans sold their land while Poles did not.  In 1904 the "Feuerstättengesetz" forbid polish Settlers to build houses on new bought land. In 1908 the "Enteignungsgesetz" made it possible to confiscate great polish farms (Großgrundbesitz). But it happened just four times, because even the Prussian administration didn't use it.  There were also restrictions against the Polish language.It started in 1876 with the "Geschäftssprachengesetz", Polish was not allowed in administration, courts and in school and at least it was forbidden in religion lessons. all this was part of the "Kulturkampf".

Who spoke about mass murder during 1918 and 39?