China vs US

Does it really matter exactly how many carriers the USN has? I mean not all of them would be in the pacific at the time of a war anyway. Hypothetically the US 7th fleet would, at least at the beginning, be the front line of any conflict as it is about 17 steaming days closer to locations in Asia than its counterparts based in the continental U.S. and it only has one carrier, the U.S.S. Kitty Hawk...

Edited by Idanthyrus

Originally posted by Singaporean Originally posted by Idanthyrus Originally posted by coolstorm n. korea, burma, pakistan, and singapore (have been a middleman between china and the us but in case of an all scale war, they will back their brothers, sisters, and blood relatives. the singaporean fouding father is very closely tied to mainland china) will probably side with china. I find it unlikly that Burma or Singapore would take China's side agaist the US. The US has a major strategic alliance with Singapore, and Burma has a long history of being politically neutral. Pakistan would almost definatly side with the US. Malaysia would probably take sides against who ever Singapore would ally herself with. Likewise with Indonesia, while they would be glade to see China fall they would be unlikly to side with the US, especially if Australia intervened on the US's behalf. The positions North Korea, South Korea, the Philipenes and Japan are self-evident. India has no love for China but would probably stay neutral, same with Russia. Vietnam has a long history of conflict with China, they might help the US secretly, difficult to say. Originally posted by coolstorm any of the following planes can match: su27, su30, su33, su35, j11, j12 Besides the Su-27, China has no significant number of any of those aircraft. They are on the way up however, China's airforce has definatly come a long way over the last decade. Singapore will probably side with US I agree but Singapore will probably stay neutral since they want to maintain their bilateral relations with China and the US. And If Vietnam wants to assist US in the war, Vietnam would probably have to ask for permission from the ASEAN members before proceeding any major acts.

Let me clear it up.  The Chinese PLAAF has 76 Russian imported Su-27Sk/UBKs and has produced 105 Su-27SK(designated J-11s) under license plus a small number of J-11A(su-27s with domestic contents).  China also imported 76 Su-30MKK fighter-bombers and 24 Su-30MK2 naval strike fighters.  It also produced at least up to 50 indigenous J-10A fighters. 

So all together China has around 400 4th generation fights jets that presents a serious threat in the far east.

China NEVER imported Su-33/35/37s and the J-12 program is not even on the prototype stage yet.


Edited by JiNanRen

Originally posted by Idanthyrus Originally posted by coolstorm n. korea, burma, pakistan, and singapore (have been a middleman between china and the us but in case of an all scale war, they will back their brothers, sisters, and blood relatives. the singaporean fouding father is very closely tied to mainland china) will probably side with china. I find it unlikly that Burma or Singapore would take China's side agaist the US. The US has a major strategic alliance with Singapore, and Burma has a long history of being politically neutral. Pakistan would almost definatly side with the US. Malaysia would probably take sides against who ever Singapore would ally herself with. Likewise with Indonesia, while they would be glade to see China fall they would be unlikly to side with the US, especially if Australia intervened on the US's behalf. The positions North Korea, South Korea, the Philipenes and Japan are self-evident. India has no love for China but would probably stay neutral, same with Russia. Vietnam has a long history of conflict with China, they might help the US secretly, difficult to say. Originally posted by coolstorm any of the following planes can match: su27, su30, su33, su35, j11, j12 Besides the Su-27, China has no significant number of any of those aircraft. They are on the way up however, China's airforce has definatly come a long way over the last decade.

Singapore will probably side with US I agree but Singapore will probably stay neutral since they want to maintain their bilateral relations with China and the US. And If Vietnam wants to assist US in the war, Vietnam would probably have to ask for permission from the ASEAN members before proceeding any major acts.

Originally posted by CivilianAmerican Illuminati Answers to Illuminati from his post above 3rd down from page 1. China's navy consists of the exact kinds of ships that would fail against a Carrier Force. The US has over 20 carriers. Battleships, Crusiers, Destroyers.....all can be destroyed by Carriers before they even get close enough to fire at the Carriers. Ever since WW2 started....Carriers have always been the way to go. While I agree with most of what you said some of you facts are a bit off, the US has only 11 active carriers, as you can see here: http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ships/carriers/cv-list1. html  I know they have maybe one Carrier in mothballs, alot of DDG's and few CG's. No BB's though, but you never know though, I thought the last BB was turned into a museum. Obviously I agree with this: F-22 is the most advanced fighter in the world and also incorporates stealth tech But Congress just gave Lockhead the go ahead and finacing to build these very recently. Unfortunatly these are meant to replace the F15 Strike eagle and the F16 fighting Falcon, Air Force jets. I think the Eagle for sure, dont know yet about the F16. So they would never be deployed in time to make a difference if war broke out within a year or so. if so it would be in limited numbers. The Joint Strike Fight will though replace the Tomcats if I am not mistake, they are in the 4 year testing phase right now. Possibly being depoyable around 2008 maybe 7, not sure.   Thats all...

well, i can tell u made up that article. everyone knows the us has 9 aircraft carriers. not 20.

Also to add a couple more things, Tiawan is not totally a whimp at all. They have American F-16's, I think and other considerable US hardware, like PAC 3's. I know they want more and hopefully that big deal will come through so we arm them.

If they get the KIDD Class DDG's like they want it only makes it much more harder for China. If China plans this right around the US they very well could pull it off, and when the US shows up China has 1mill troopes in Tiawan killing everyone.

The only this that really scares me is that China never signed MAD (Mutual Assured Destruction). I may be wrong.

 

Peace...

 

 

I cant see how China could possibly defeat the US in any but a land warfare situation on Chinese soil. Here is how I would break this down if action between these 2 nations came to light.

#1 China would begin it's surprise invasion of Tiawan, probably when the KittyHawk Carrier Strike Group is away and not ported in Japan, right now there in South Korea for a visit and to play war games.

#2 The US would respond with Immediate diplomatic pressure to and from it's allies within hours, then they would move the Kitty Hawk Strike Group back into position if it isnt already and sent more Strike Groups there asap. Here is what  China lacks: The US can launch stikes and sorties from the strike Group well out of China's strike or response range. The US would also deploy immediate B-2 stealth strikes on China, the B-2's can strike with a 24 hour window. Mostlikely they will strike hardened comm lines, radar positions and whatnot, essentially they will turn the lights out on China very fast and very swift. The US would also launch it's B1B Lancer bombers that it has in South Korea. Once the lights and comm/radar are out, China is in trouble coordinating a succesful attack on the US Naval positions.

#3 If Tiawan can hold out from a major air, missle, and amphibious attack for at least 72 hours, then by that time the US would have 1 Strike Group there and the 2nd soon to be positioned, if they hold out long enough for 3 carrier strike groups to be in position then China is in big trouble. Not only in 24 hours will B-2 Stealths attack but they will have 2 runs at it in 48 hours not to mention Lancer strikes taking off within the US and F117 strikes. And US heavy bombers, hey take the lights out and China's wide open for nothing but Tomahawk, bombers strikes, and cruise missle strikes from either Naval Flotilla assets, US based assets or SSBN's within the area.

#4. Now China sea power, the new Soverimty DDG's that come from Russia, everyone says that they can take out carriers with a heartbeat. Thats true they have 4 missle they carry called Sunburns (NATO Codename, I think), low level high speed heavy missles capable of damaging a carrier considerably. Now I have been chatting US Navy boards that say the Kidd class and the Aegis equiped Arleigh Burke class DDG's have the capability of shooting those missles down with either their missles or the last defence Phalanx system. The problem with that is that the US can strike from twice the distance than China DDG's can, that mean that China will never have a chance to target us because we will stay outside their range. We would simply launch Tomahawk or Cruise missle at them and take them out.

To end this if Tiawan can hold out for 48 to 72 hours then China's in trouble Naval wise, if not and one carrier strike group is in the region when it happens the one strike group will have a hard time stopping all of China assents at once. Frankly I think China will get ruled by the F18 Falcons and Tomcats, if China's fighter jets try to attack the Carrier Strike Group it's suicide. If China lauches a surgical Nuke on the US Carrier Strike Group the SSBN's will launch a nuclear strike package and it will be over very fast. There is no doubt they will either be in the area or very close, the US dont play on this, it's called Theater Force Deterrance.

 

Personally I think it depends on how well Tiawan does and what assets or in that region. If we have assets that are close Like a Strike Group then it's a good fight, if 2 Strike Groups within 48 hours, China's in trouble.

 

Just my opinion.....

 

 

 

The question is, is fear of the US millitary deterence enough to keep China from ever trying to invade Taiwan? Obviously neither country desires a war while trade is so profitable, but if one countries hand is forced, then they will have no choice but to respond or they would appear weak in the eyes of the world. Too much at stake for both countries for either to let it go quietly.

Originally posted by Chinese never want a war But I consider that US didnt bomb China because of U.S.S.R, but not the great restraint you said. US was afraid of a total war to U.S.S.R.

Which was the cause of restraint.  A fear of the USSR.

China didn't win Korea of Vietnam, both of these resulted in a stalemate and political settlement, because the USA used great restraint in both of these wars, it didn't go and bomb china even though it had the capability. Chinese help led to these stalemates, in a similar way that US restraint also did.

China's Navy is overall not as advanced as the US Navy. The US has the most advanced carriers, Naval combat planes, and subs in the world (though its debatable, because Russian subs are really good). China is in an early stage of development with their navy.

China's navy consists of the exact kinds of ships that would fail against a Carrier Force. The US has over 20 carriers. Battleships, Crusiers, Destroyers.....all can be destroyed by Carriers before they even get close enough to fire at the Carriers. Ever since WW2 started....Carriers have always been the way to go.

And the US Navy gravely outnhumbers the Chinese Navy.

Now....to Air Force. China may have a bigger Air Force, but when comparing technology and Planes........the US wins. primarily because the US has stealth technology. The F-22 is the msot advanced fighter in the world and also incorporates stealth tech. Not to mention the Stealth bombers the US has.
Russia has always feared these, and Russia is more advanced militarily than China is.
Land War........its would be bad, I don't think anyone can adequately for see this. BUT, the battles woudl not be fought on US soil becasue the Chinese have no way to get to America. Their Air Force and Navy is no capable of defeating the US Navy and Air Force in order to land troops in America.


Edited by Illuminati