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Suren 
Arch Duke 
Chieftain Joined: 10-Feb-2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 1673 |
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 Topic: Greek or CypriotPosted: 08-Sep-2008 at 00:56 |
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Is it from Greece Or Cyprus?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEmR1eQtx40&feature=related Dancing style is so familiar with one of Iranian style. If I am not mistaking it is similar to Kurdish or Azari dance. |
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Carpathian Wolf
General 
BANNED Joined: 06-Jun-2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 884 |
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Posted: 08-Sep-2008 at 01:48 |
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The singer looks like Pacino.
The dance is Greek. Maybe there is a similar dance in Iran? Alexander maybe?
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Carpathian Wolf
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BANNED Joined: 06-Jun-2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 884 |
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Posted: 08-Sep-2008 at 02:06 |
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vranakonti
Samurai 
Joined: 11-Jun-2007 Location: Albania Online Status: Offline Posts: 117 |
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Posted: 08-Sep-2008 at 02:57 |
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Its a typical balkanian sound, i don't mean exclusively balkanian though.
Here you heave an Albanian song, the main part is quite similiar only instruments differ.
The dance is also typical Balkanian, traditional dances are danced in that way all over place.
A typical Albanian wedding:
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Ti Shqipri m ep nder...
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Carpathian Wolf
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BANNED Joined: 06-Jun-2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 884 |
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Posted: 08-Sep-2008 at 03:03 |
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The first link was...interesting. It didn't seem like the others to me.
As for the 2nd link, the music had a different tone. It had a similar instruement and sound to this:
Without the drums of course. I don't know what that specific instruement is.
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vranakonti
Samurai
Joined: 11-Jun-2007 Location: Albania Online Status: Offline Posts: 117 |
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Posted: 08-Sep-2008 at 03:27 |
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That is a typical "wedding music",usually played by gypsy orchestras and it don't have any regional specific,its everywhere the same. I guess is smth directly borrowed from Turkey, without passing many filters or local transformations hence the strong similiraty with the song in you video. We can consider it somekind of ottoman disco-music, i posted it only to show the way people were dancing. Edited by vranakonti - 08-Sep-2008 at 03:32 |
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Ti Shqipri m ep nder...
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xristar
Chieftain 
Joined: 05-Nov-2005 Location: Greece Online Status: Offline Posts: 1028 |
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Posted: 08-Sep-2008 at 06:34 |
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What makes you think it's from Cyprus? It's Greek, from Asia Minor.
It's called "zournas" is Greece. Quite common instrument. Generally replaced by the clarinete which has a deeper sound. |
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Defeat allows no explanation Victory needs none. It insults the dead when you treat life carelessly. |
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Suren
Arch Duke
Chieftain Joined: 10-Feb-2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 1673 |
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Posted: 08-Sep-2008 at 06:46 |
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Since their dance is familiar to Iranian dance, but they sing in Greek. Cyprus has both Turkish and Greek culture and Cypriots speak Greek. Is it enough or you want more reasons?
 Edited by Suren - 08-Sep-2008 at 06:47 |
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Flipper
Arch Duke
Joined: 23-Apr-2006 Location: Flipper HQ Online Status: Offline Posts: 1813 |
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Posted: 08-Sep-2008 at 07:20 |
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Well, it is typical Greek and you will see the dance pretty much everywhere including Cyprus. It is not a local Cyprus dance though. Just a dance that has spreaded everywhere.
I don't know if the dance is just similar or the steps are exactly the same, however, I know that many nations have similar dances but not the same steps. |
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vranakonti
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Joined: 11-Jun-2007 Location: Albania Online Status: Offline Posts: 117 |
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Posted: 08-Sep-2008 at 07:44 |
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Initially i thought it was a Gaida (bagpipe), but i think you are right it is a Zurna or a Gerneta( alb).
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Ti Shqipri m ep nder...
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xristar
Chieftain
Joined: 05-Nov-2005 Location: Greece Online Status: Offline Posts: 1028 |
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Posted: 09-Sep-2008 at 19:14 |
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Actually, greekcypriot culture is quite pure greek, much more than mainland greece. If you hear something greek that sounds "eastern" it propably IS eastern, and today can be found in mainland greece. Cyprus, and the islands, have their own subculture ("islander") which is propably the most original greek. |
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Defeat allows no explanation Victory needs none. It insults the dead when you treat life carelessly. |
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Flipper
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Joined: 23-Apr-2006 Location: Flipper HQ Online Status: Offline Posts: 1813 |
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Posted: 09-Sep-2008 at 19:58 |
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I agree. Generally the island music + some "asian"-greek music styles are closer to the music of the past. Islanders do have their own subculture and sometimes it is like a completely other country. For example those guys at Carpathos live in a unique world, we can't grasp  .The eastern influence is a modern addition to the music and except from some buzuki, is not really Greek at all. I actually hate when people call Vandi & co for Greek music...Greek songs yes, but not music. The only Greek in it is the words and some occational instruments. Original Greek music is much different from what is reffered as Greek popular music or what a tourist may encounter. |
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Så nu tar jag fram (k)niven va! |
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Anton
Caliph 
Joined: 23-Jun-2006 Location: Bulgaria Online Status: Offline Posts: 2888 |
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Posted: 09-Sep-2008 at 22:26 |
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In my opinion what people call "eastern sound" is simply harmonic minor scale. I do not think it is a result of eastern influence as it is present even in oldest orthodox hymns although in limited degree and even as west as Spain in flamenco dances (the later however are also heavily influenced by easterners -- arabs and romas).
As for the song, similar motive can be met also in Bulgarian folklore but in our case they are sung by women mostly.
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Flipper
Arch Duke
Joined: 23-Apr-2006 Location: Flipper HQ Online Status: Offline Posts: 1813 |
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Posted: 09-Sep-2008 at 23:58 |
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Anton you're right about the scale. However, in Greece things were a bit different. It passed through the Ottomans, that streched through the middle east and got in their turn the influence. However, that kind of sound was not dominating at all in Greece. Now it does, at least in popular music. I'm not a fan of it at all, not that i don't like the eastern sound but in Greece it's a way to make "Fast-food" music if you know what i mean. Effective music for mass production. Cheap copies of eastern music in other words.
Some traditional Greek music samples are below: Music from various islands http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYbYcJEaKnY&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMeJFVfI3o4&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzP_PXaFvnc&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1JwHqVWH8s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUgX1bW9CPY&feature=related Music from central and northern Greece http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNmnBPU-av0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSeJjctgCJY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJUTkBy6C70&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9UOeEkqirs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suE4LFEwlVg&feature=related Music from southern Greece http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5h5KMXjR6k http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SsgLs5ihLw&feature=related Music from Asia Minor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp_iACtqh6c&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xarXJE9tsWQ Music from Anatolia & Pontos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nNX0uegtZg&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPpcF0XZxlg&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj6eW5-GZ2I Music from Thrace http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-98fBXfTLf0&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PdsndmF3tE&feature=related Various other classic & traditional songs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7PWmybPyY8&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AURm7GY-Uj4 (Modern version, original is from Asia Minor back in the early 20th century) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeTP9lcL7_Q http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwiZCkcex3c I could post a million and i'm sure i have not made a complete list but it would take hours and it is way to late here. ANyway, i guess it is very different from what most people know. Usually, people visiting Greece would hear something like the links below, from the radio or on a club: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miPnYpiNSSs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoGLc_2pj1s&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Owj8e1A7hsk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0eSjwWUYO4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIvnEE2lnN8&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOMg-vvpTwU&feature=related Not exactly close to the traditional stuff... PS: I know some classic "skyladika"-greeks who like those last samples would kill me for this, but i've got enough of it. Edited by Flipper - 10-Sep-2008 at 00:05 |
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Anton
Caliph
Joined: 23-Jun-2006 Location: Bulgaria Online Status: Offline Posts: 2888 |
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Posted: 10-Sep-2008 at 01:25 |
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Mate, your samples are no different from what is in BG. At least those from Thrace and Macedonia. BTW, what does "Mila mou" means? Is it different from "Mila moja" (my darling)? :)
By fast food music I suggest you mean something close to Bulgarian "Chalga", that is, classical Turkish/Roma folklore mix (as it is seen by foreigners sic!) in pop style. I am pretty sure it has nothing to do to Turkish folklore too.
Also typical Balkan (at least Bulgarian) feature in dances is improper rythm (uneven beats): 5/8, 7/8, 11/8 and mixes of those with changes every second tact (I am sorry if I use wrong terminlogy, I mean the part of the melody separated by vertical line and having certain number of beats). The later causes dancers to jump and quickly change legs 2 times (here I might be wrong -- at least I see this as an explanation why do horo dancers periodically jump).
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Leonidas
Tsar 
Joined: 01-Oct-2005 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 4613 |
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Posted: 10-Sep-2008 at 04:19 |
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the dialects of the Kypros and other islanders are generally closer to ancient dilaects as well as to pontian in places - the lack of influnce of koine devlpoment seems to be the boundary. The instruments for the music also seem related, the lyra (sp) for instance can be found in different forms on Crete, Karpathos and amongst the Asia minior greeks.
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Flipper
Arch Duke
Joined: 23-Apr-2006 Location: Flipper HQ Online Status: Offline Posts: 1813 |
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Posted: 10-Sep-2008 at 07:10 |
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I know. The mainland music is pretty much the same all over the Balkans. Every country has probably some of its own unique styles, but the most popular ones are the same. Mila mou means "speak to me". However, i think you heard "Milo mou" which means "My apple". Which link was it?
Yes, to a certain extend it is. That doesn't mean ofcourse that classical Turkish/Roma folklore is "fast-food".
You're right about the beats, so it could be a possible explanation. |
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Flipper
Arch Duke
Joined: 23-Apr-2006 Location: Flipper HQ Online Status: Offline Posts: 1813 |
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Posted: 10-Sep-2008 at 07:13 |
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Yes, that is very probable. The rythm of speech is different as well so that has it's effect. The Pontian music is the music is also the music of the Akrites, the border keepers of the eastern Byzantine. They lived alone in woods and fields, so in order to keep themselves amused they created those warlike tunes. |
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Så nu tar jag fram (k)niven va! |
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Anton
Caliph
Joined: 23-Jun-2006 Location: Bulgaria Online Status: Offline Posts: 2888 |
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Posted: 10-Sep-2008 at 11:59 |
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I think it was first in Northern Greece list.
BTW, in the there was one with black faces and messy melodies. In coments people suggested they were drunk. But could it be that this was just a funeral?
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Flipper
Arch Duke
Joined: 23-Apr-2006 Location: Flipper HQ Online Status: Offline Posts: 1813 |
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Posted: 10-Sep-2008 at 13:10 |
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It is "Milo mou kokkino" which means "My red apple". It is an all time classic tune from Chalkidiki.
You raised a good question there and look what i found from the info of that video:
That sounds like a Bacchic tradition...Goat skins, bells and black masks are the most typical characteristics of those. I had no idea about that custom. Indeed you can see a guy comming, wearing goat skin. |
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