Author |
Share Topic Topic Search Topic Options
|
Suren
Arch Duke
Chieftain
Joined: 10-Feb-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1673
|
Quote Reply
Topic: Greek or Cypriot Posted: 08-Sep-2008 at 00:56 |
Is it from Greece Or Cyprus?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEmR1eQtx40&feature=related
Dancing style is so familiar with one of Iranian style. If I am not mistaking it is similar to Kurdish or Azari dance.
|
|
Carpathian Wolf
General
BANNED
Joined: 06-Jun-2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 884
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 08-Sep-2008 at 01:48 |
The singer looks like Pacino.
The dance is Greek. Maybe there is a similar dance in Iran? Alexander maybe?
|
|
Carpathian Wolf
General
BANNED
Joined: 06-Jun-2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 884
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 08-Sep-2008 at 02:06 |
|
|
vranakonti
Samurai
Joined: 11-Jun-2007
Location: Albania
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 117
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 08-Sep-2008 at 02:57 |
Originally posted by Suren
Is it from Greece Or Cyprus?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEmR1eQtx40&feature=related
Dancing style is so familiar with one of Iranian style. If I am not mistaking it is similar to Kurdish or Azari dance.
|
Its a typical balkanian sound, i don't mean exclusively balkanian though.
Here you heave an Albanian song, the main part is quite similiar only instruments differ.
The dance is also typical Balkanian, traditional dances are danced in that way all over place.
A typical Albanian wedding:
|
Ti Shqipri m ep nder...
|
|
Carpathian Wolf
General
BANNED
Joined: 06-Jun-2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 884
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 08-Sep-2008 at 03:03 |
The first link was...interesting. It didn't seem like the others to me.
As for the 2nd link, the music had a different tone. It had a similar instruement and sound to this:
Without the drums of course. I don't know what that specific instruement is.
|
|
vranakonti
Samurai
Joined: 11-Jun-2007
Location: Albania
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 117
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 08-Sep-2008 at 03:27 |
Originally posted by Carpathian Wolf
The first link was...interesting. It didn't seem like the others to me.
As for the 2nd link, the music had a different tone. It had a similar instruement and sound to this:
Without the drums of course. I don't know what that specific instruement is. |
That is a typical "wedding music",usually played by gypsy orchestras and it don't have any regional specific,its everywhere the same. I guess is smth directly borrowed from Turkey, without passing many filters or local transformations hence the strong similiraty with the song in you video. We can consider it somekind of ottoman disco-music, i posted it only to show the way people were dancing.
Edited by vranakonti - 08-Sep-2008 at 03:32
|
Ti Shqipri m ep nder...
|
|
xristar
Chieftain
Joined: 05-Nov-2005
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1028
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 08-Sep-2008 at 06:34 |
Is it from Greece Or Cyprus?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEmR1eQtx40&feature=related
Dancing style is so familiar with one of Iranian style. If I am not mistaking it is similar to Kurdish or Azari dance.
|
What makes you think it's from Cyprus? It's Greek, from Asia Minor.
As for the 2nd link, the music had a different tone. It had a similar instruement and sound to this |
It's called "zournas" is Greece. Quite common instrument. Generally replaced by the clarinete which has a deeper sound.
|
Defeat allows no explanation
Victory needs none.
It insults the dead when you treat life carelessly.
|
|
Suren
Arch Duke
Chieftain
Joined: 10-Feb-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1673
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 08-Sep-2008 at 06:46 |
Since their dance is familiar to Iranian dance, but they sing in Greek. Cyprus has both Turkish and Greek culture and Cypriots speak Greek. Is it enough or you want more reasons?
Edited by Suren - 08-Sep-2008 at 06:47
|
|
Flipper
Arch Duke
Joined: 23-Apr-2006
Location: Flipper HQ
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1813
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 08-Sep-2008 at 07:20 |
Well, it is typical Greek and you will see the dance pretty much everywhere including Cyprus. It is not a local Cyprus dance though. Just a dance that has spreaded everywhere.
I don't know if the dance is just similar or the steps are exactly the same, however, I know that many nations have similar dances but not the same steps.
|
Så nu tar jag fram (k)niven va!
|
|
vranakonti
Samurai
Joined: 11-Jun-2007
Location: Albania
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 117
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 08-Sep-2008 at 07:44 |
It's called "zournas" is Greece. Quite common instrument. Generally replaced by the clarinete which has a deeper sound. |
Initially i thought it was a Gaida (bagpipe), but i think you are right it is a Zurna or a Gerneta( alb).
|
Ti Shqipri m ep nder...
|
|
xristar
Chieftain
Joined: 05-Nov-2005
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1028
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 09-Sep-2008 at 19:14 |
Originally posted by Suren
Since their dance is familiar to Iranian dance, but they sing in Greek. Cyprus has both Turkish and Greek culture and Cypriots speak Greek. Is it enough or you want more reasons?
|
Actually, greekcypriot culture is quite pure greek, much more than mainland greece. If you hear something greek that sounds "eastern" it propably IS eastern, and today can be found in mainland greece. Cyprus, and the islands, have their own subculture ("islander") which is propably the most original greek.
|
Defeat allows no explanation
Victory needs none.
It insults the dead when you treat life carelessly.
|
|
Flipper
Arch Duke
Joined: 23-Apr-2006
Location: Flipper HQ
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1813
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 09-Sep-2008 at 19:58 |
Originally posted by xristar
Actually, greekcypriot culture is quite pure greek, much more than mainland greece. If you hear something greek that sounds "eastern" it propably IS eastern, and today can be found in mainland greece. Cyprus, and the islands, have their own subculture ("islander") which is propably the most original greek.
|
I agree. Generally the island music + some "asian"-greek music styles are closer to the music of the past. Islanders do have their own subculture and sometimes it is like a completely other country. For example those guys at Carpathos live in a unique world, we can't grasp . The eastern influence is a modern addition to the music and except from some buzuki, is not really Greek at all. I actually hate when people call Vandi & co for Greek music...Greek songs yes, but not music. The only Greek in it is the words and some occational instruments. Original Greek music is much different from what is reffered as Greek popular music or what a tourist may encounter.
|
Så nu tar jag fram (k)niven va!
|
|
Anton
Caliph
Joined: 23-Jun-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2888
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 09-Sep-2008 at 22:26 |
In my opinion what people call "eastern sound" is simply harmonic minor scale. I do not think it is a result of eastern influence as it is present even in oldest orthodox hymns although in limited degree and even as west as Spain in flamenco dances (the later however are also heavily influenced by easterners -- arabs and romas).
As for the song, similar motive can be met also in Bulgarian folklore but in our case they are sung by women mostly.
|
.
|
|
Flipper
Arch Duke
Joined: 23-Apr-2006
Location: Flipper HQ
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1813
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 09-Sep-2008 at 23:58 |
Anton you're right about the scale. However, in Greece things were a bit different. It passed through the Ottomans, that streched through the middle east and got in their turn the influence. However, that kind of sound was not dominating at all in Greece. Now it does, at least in popular music. I'm not a fan of it at all, not that i don't like the eastern sound but in Greece it's a way to make "Fast-food" music if you know what i mean. Effective music for mass production. Cheap copies of eastern music in other words. Some traditional Greek music samples are below: Music from various islandshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYbYcJEaKnY&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMeJFVfI3o4&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzP_PXaFvnc&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1JwHqVWH8shttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUgX1bW9CPY&feature=relatedMusic from central and northern Greecehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNmnBPU-av0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSeJjctgCJYhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJUTkBy6C70&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9UOeEkqirshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suE4LFEwlVg&feature=relatedMusic from southern Greecehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5h5KMXjR6khttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SsgLs5ihLw&feature=related Music from Asia Minorhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp_iACtqh6c&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xarXJE9tsWQ Music from Anatolia & Pontoshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nNX0uegtZg&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPpcF0XZxlg&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj6eW5-GZ2IMusic from Thrace http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-98fBXfTLf0&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PdsndmF3tE&feature=related Various other classic & traditional songshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7PWmybPyY8&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AURm7GY-Uj4 (Modern version, original is from Asia Minor back in the early 20th century) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeTP9lcL7_Qhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwiZCkcex3cI could post a million and i'm sure i have not made a complete list but it would take hours and it is way to late here. ANyway, i guess it is very different from what most people know. Usually, people visiting Greece would hear something like the links below, from the radio or on a club: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miPnYpiNSSshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoGLc_2pj1s&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Owj8e1A7hskhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0eSjwWUYO4http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIvnEE2lnN8&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOMg-vvpTwU&feature=relatedNot exactly close to the traditional stuff... PS: I know some classic "skyladika"-greeks who like those last samples would kill me for this, but i've got enough of it.
Edited by Flipper - 10-Sep-2008 at 00:05
|
Så nu tar jag fram (k)niven va!
|
|
Anton
Caliph
Joined: 23-Jun-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2888
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Sep-2008 at 01:25 |
Originally posted by Flipper
Anton you're right about the scale. However, in Greece things were a bit different. It passed through the Ottomans, that streched through the middle east and got in their turn the influence. However, that kind of sound was not dominating at all in Greece. Now it does, at least in popular music. I'm not a fan of it at all, not that i don't like the eastern sound but in Greece it's a way to make "Fast-food" music if you know what i mean. Effective music for mass production. Cheap copies of eastern music in other words.
|
Mate, your samples are no different from what is in BG. At least those from Thrace and Macedonia. BTW, what does "Mila mou" means? Is it different from "Mila moja" (my darling)? :)
By fast food music I suggest you mean something close to Bulgarian "Chalga", that is, classical Turkish/Roma folklore mix (as it is seen by foreigners sic!) in pop style. I am pretty sure it has nothing to do to Turkish folklore too.
Also typical Balkan (at least Bulgarian) feature in dances is improper rythm (uneven beats): 5/8, 7/8, 11/8 and mixes of those with changes every second tact (I am sorry if I use wrong terminlogy, I mean the part of the melody separated by vertical line and having certain number of beats). The later causes dancers to jump and quickly change legs 2 times (here I might be wrong -- at least I see this as an explanation why do horo dancers periodically jump).
|
.
|
|
Leonidas
Tsar
Joined: 01-Oct-2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4613
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Sep-2008 at 04:19 |
Originally posted by Flipper
Originally posted by xristar
Actually, greekcypriot culture is quite pure greek, much more than mainland greece. If you hear something greek that sounds "eastern" it propably IS eastern, and today can be found in mainland greece. Cyprus, and the islands, have their own subculture ("islander") which is propably the most original greek.
|
I agree. Generally the island music + some "asian"-greek music styles are closer to the music of the past. Islanders do have their own subculture and sometimes it is like a completely other country. For example those guys at Carpathos live in a unique world, we can't grasp .
The eastern influence is a modern addition to the music and except from some buzuki, is not really Greek at all.
|
the dialects of the Kypros and other islanders are generally closer to ancient dilaects as well as to pontian in places - the lack of influnce of koine devlpoment seems to be the boundary. The instruments for the music also seem related, the lyra (sp) for instance can be found in different forms on Crete, Karpathos and amongst the Asia minior greeks.
|
|
|
Flipper
Arch Duke
Joined: 23-Apr-2006
Location: Flipper HQ
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1813
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Sep-2008 at 07:10 |
Originally posted by Anton
Mate, your samples are no different from what is in BG. At least those from Thrace and Macedonia. BTW, what does "Mila mou" means? Is it different from "Mila moja" (my darling)? :)
|
I know. The mainland music is pretty much the same all over the Balkans. Every country has probably some of its own unique styles, but the most popular ones are the same. Mila mou means "speak to me". However, i think you heard "Milo mou" which means "My apple". Which link was it?
Originally posted by Anton
By fast food music I suggest you mean something close to Bulgarian "Chalga", that is, classical Turkish/Roma folklore mix (as it is seen by foreigners sic!) in pop style. I am pretty sure it has nothing to do to Turkish folklore too.
|
Yes, to a certain extend it is. That doesn't mean ofcourse that classical Turkish/Roma folklore is "fast-food".
Originally posted by Anton
Also typical Balkan (at least Bulgarian) feature in dances is improper rythm (uneven beats): 5/8, 7/8, 11/8 and mixes of those with changes every second tact (I am sorry if I use wrong terminlogy, I mean the part of the melody separated by vertical line and having certain number of beats). The later causes dancers to jump and quickly change legs 2 times (here I might be wrong -- at least I see this as an explanation why do horo dancers periodically jump). |
You're right about the beats, so it could be a possible explanation.
|
Så nu tar jag fram (k)niven va!
|
|
Flipper
Arch Duke
Joined: 23-Apr-2006
Location: Flipper HQ
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1813
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Sep-2008 at 07:13 |
Originally posted by Leonidas
the dialects of the Kypros and other islanders are generally closer to ancient dilaects as well as to pontian in places - the lack of influnce of koine devlpoment seems to be the boundary. The instruments for the music also seem related, the lyra (sp) for instance can be found in different forms on Crete, Karpathos and amongst the Asia minior greeks. |
Yes, that is very probable. The rythm of speech is different as well so that has it's effect. The Pontian music is the music is also the music of the Akrites, the border keepers of the eastern Byzantine. They lived alone in woods and fields, so in order to keep themselves amused they created those warlike tunes.
|
Så nu tar jag fram (k)niven va!
|
|
Anton
Caliph
Joined: 23-Jun-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2888
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Sep-2008 at 11:59 |
Originally posted by Flipper
Mila mou means "speak to me". However, i think you heard "Milo mou" which means "My apple". Which link was it?
|
I think it was first in Northern Greece list.
BTW, in the there was one with black faces and messy melodies. In coments people suggested they were drunk. But could it be that this was just a funeral?
|
.
|
|
Flipper
Arch Duke
Joined: 23-Apr-2006
Location: Flipper HQ
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1813
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Sep-2008 at 13:10 |
Originally posted by Anton
Originally posted by Flipper
Mila mou means "speak to me". However, i think you heard "Milo mou" which means "My apple". Which link was it?
|
I think it was first in Northern Greece list.
|
It is "Milo mou kokkino" which means "My red apple". It is an all time classic tune from Chalkidiki.
Originally posted by Anton
BTW, in the there was one with black faces and messy melodies. In coments people suggested they were drunk. But could it be that this was just a funeral? |
You raised a good question there and look what i found from the info of that video:
We are in the central cafe on the first day of the year (2008).
We are celebrating the coming of a new year! It is a tradition in
Eptahori village! We are dancing while Tasis Halkias is improvising on
dramatic music.... We are wearing goat skins, bells and black masks
made by coal colour... |
That sounds like a Bacchic tradition...Goat skins, bells and black masks are the most typical characteristics of those. I had no idea about that custom. Indeed you can see a guy comming, wearing goat skin.
|
Så nu tar jag fram (k)niven va!
|
|