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Nato leaves a trail of catastrophe

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  Quote Kevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Nato leaves a trail of catastrophe
    Posted: 20-Aug-2008 at 05:40

Nato is useless. It has failed to bring stability to Afghanistan, as it failed to bring it to Serbia. It just breaks crockery. Nato has proved a rotten fighting force, which in Kabul is on the brink of being sidelined by exasperated Americans. Nor is it any better at diplomacy: witness its hamfisted handling of east Europe. As the custodian of the west's postwar resistance to the Soviet Union's nuclear threat it served a purpose. Now it has become a diplomats' Olympics, irrelevant but with bursts of extravagant self-importance.

Yesterday's Nato ministerial meeting in Brussels was a fig leaf over the latest fiasco, the failure to counter the predictable Russian intervention in Georgia. Ostensibly to save Russian nationals in South Ossetia, the intervention was, in truth, to tell Georgia and Ukraine that they must not play games with the west along Russia's frontier. Nato, which Russia would (and should) have joined after the collapse of the Soviet Union, is now a running provocation along the eastern rim of Europe.

There was no strategic need for Nato to proselytise for members, and consequent security guarantees, among the Baltic republics and border states to the south. Nor is there any strategic need for the US to place missile sites in Poland or the Czech Republic. This was mere Nato self-aggrandisement reinforcing the lobbying of the Pentagon hawks.

These moves were bound to infuriate the hypersensitive Russians, and did. There is no point in western pundits saying that the thrust of Nato close to the Russian border is quite different from the cold war location of Soviet missiles in Cuba. It seems the same to Russian nationalists.

Nor is it any good pundits remarking that Russia's defence of Russian minorities in Georgia is quite different from Nato's intervention to defend the Kurdish minority in Iraq or the Albanian minority in Serbia. Again, that is just how it seems to Russia.

George Bush said earlier this month that "the age of spheres of influence is over". In that case why push that most potent sphere of influence, Nato, to the Russian border? And what of the sphere-of-influence theory that underpinned Bush's neoconservative plan to conquer the Muslim world for democracy?

The US's two greatest bugbears at present, Russia and Iran, both have grounds for feeling encircled by hostile forces. However badly they behave, they too are vulnerable to the politics of irrational fear. Both countries display the rudiments of democratic activity, with paranoia playing on pluralism.

The glib response of Nato's leaders has been hawkish, that the only thing "these people" understand is tough talk and big sticks. But that just apes Russia's attitude towards Georgia and Ukraine, which at least Russia has the power to enforce.

The west is not threatened by Russia. Turning its border into a zone of bluff and counter-bluff, so Nato can boast 10 extra flags outside its headquarters, has proved destabilising and provocative. Intelligence, like morality, is supposedly the tribute power should pay to reason. Russia is boorish and belligerent enough already. Why encourage it?

With Russia, Nato is playing with fire. In Afghanistan/Pakistan - which should always be yoked together - it is playing with dynamite. Here Osama bin Laden and Donald Rumsfeld must be laughing in unison: the former because Nato's conduct of the war against the Taliban has been a recruiting sergeant for al-Qaida in Pakistan; the latter because everything he said about nation-building has proved true. "Get in fast and get out fast" was his strategy, and he was right.

The fall of Pervez Musharraf might be good news for Pakistan's democrats. It is dreadful news for Nato's proconsuls in their fortified enclaves in Kabul. The likelihood of political turbulence in Pakistan can only increase the hold that pro-Taliban tribes have over the long frontier with Afghanistan and, with it, the certainty of an escalating war.

Nato's performance here has been dreadful. A half-hearted peacekeeper, it had displayed divided counsels, divided leadership and divided rules of engagement. It has reflected the view of the US general in Kosovo, Wesley Clark, that US units should never again be placed under international command. International command means no command at all.

A Pentagon report by General Barry McCaffrey, revealed last week, criticises the lack of command unity in Kabul. "Afghanistan is in misery," it says. "A sensible coordination of all political and military elements of the Afghan theatre of operation does not exist."

There is said to be a plan for a 12,000-strong reinforcement of US troops to stage a Baghdad-style "surge", outside the remit of Nato. The idea that the rural Taliban might be susceptible to the same handling as Iraq's urban militias may be senseless, but is on the cards. Such a surge would mean three rival armies - Afghan, Nato and American - roaming this troubled land, a gift to any enemy.

The newly triumphant coalition in Islamabad must long for the days when its Afghan backyard was quiet. The Taliban regime was funded by opium and the Saudis, and of no strategic (as opposed to terrorist) concern to the west. There were no US Predators bombing villages, no CIA phone-tapping, no suborned Pakistan intelligence officers, no outside interference. Pakistan's sphere of influence might not be to every taste, but it was roughly stable.

We shall now have the world's sixth largest country, and with an active nuclear arsenal, in internal turmoil because of a doomed Nato adventure on its border. Taliban units are operating freely throughout the south and east of Afghanistan and within miles of the capital, Kabul, flatly contradicting the mendacious spin of Nato spokesmen over the past two years.

Western governments seem never to learn. Counter-insurgency wars of this sort never work if they become drawn out. At best they leave broken, corrupted, failed states such as Lebanon and Kosovo - and, soon, Iraq. At worst they mean defeat. If ever America were walking into another Vietnam, it is now in Afghanistan, fast replacing Iraq as the mecca for every anti-western fanatic on earth.

Peace in Afghanistan might not matter over much. But its absence will grossly destabilise Pakistan, and that matters greatly. Is this to be another feather in Nato's cap?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/aug/20/nato.usforeignpolicy



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  Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2008 at 16:29
Hello Kevin
 
Well, the problem with the Nato is that it is driven by what America decides. If it says Terrorism is the most important threat then everyone has to agree even if they weren't targeted. If it is Iraq then Iraq it is even if that country ceased to be of any threat even to Kuwaite a long time ago. And now we see them making a fuss about Iran despite the fact that that regime is known for its pragmatism, I dare say the Bush administration is more ideologue than the mullas of Tehran, and that the regime in Iran can be bought and will be more loyal than many people in their own countries.
 
As I have been saying long ago, terrorism is only a hoax, not that it is not real but the threat that comes from it. It massacred 100k Algerians and yet failed to topple the regime. It kills more people in the Islamic world in one year than what was killed from westerners in the last 30 years. With simple measures terror, which till today never has managed to topple a regime period, terror can be handled easily. Yet the US insists to this day on it being the greatest threat to the free world which is BS. It is a vote grab and succeeded in netting some votes and even helped to make the public favourable for the Iraq scam.
 
Yet the real threats, the countries that can actually do something, that is China and Russia, were left behind and were even considered allies against the "Islamic threat" as one conservative cook once said and the result is more than obvious, China is now calling the shots in Africa, Russia is much more stronger and more nationalistic and the west is now not only without allies but helpless against the Sino-Russian tide that swept everything in its way. And now the alliance in in shambles with no clear path to go to and preoccupied by the little detailes without any knowledge of what the big picture looks like.
 
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  Quote Kevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2008 at 19:29
Originally posted by Al Jassas

Hello Kevin
 
Well, the problem with the Nato is that it is driven by what America decides. If it says Terrorism is the most important threat then everyone has to agree even if they weren't targeted. If it is Iraq then Iraq it is even if that country ceased to be of any threat even to Kuwaite a long time ago. And now we see them making a fuss about Iran despite the fact that that regime is known for its pragmatism, I dare say the Bush administration is more ideologue than the mullas of Tehran, and that the regime in Iran can be bought and will be more loyal than many people in their own countries.
 
As I have been saying long ago, terrorism is only a hoax, not that it is not real but the threat that comes from it. It massacred 100k Algerians and yet failed to topple the regime. It kills more people in the Islamic world in one year than what was killed from westerners in the last 30 years. With simple measures terror, which till today never has managed to topple a regime period, terror can be handled easily. Yet the US insists to this day on it being the greatest threat to the free world which is BS. It is a vote grab and succeeded in netting some votes and even helped to make the public favourable for the Iraq scam.
 
Yet the real threats, the countries that can actually do something, that is China and Russia, were left behind and were even considered allies against the "Islamic threat" as one conservative cook once said and the result is more than obvious, China is now calling the shots in Africa, Russia is much more stronger and more nationalistic and the west is now not only without allies but helpless against the Sino-Russian tide that swept everything in its way. And now the alliance in in shambles with no clear path to go to and preoccupied by the little detailes without any knowledge of what the big picture looks like.
 
AL-Jassas


To say that the reason NATO is in shambles due to  American overbearing would be false in my honest opinion, I see the current failings and strugglings of NATO in regards to Russia and Afghanistan and the war on terror to be the result of a failing to form a united front due to inter-squabbling and competing interests within the organization it's self.

In regards to the threat posed by violent Islamic extremism, I still see it as one of the top threats to the United States and the Western World as it still has the ability to carry out spectacular terrorist attacks upon the West and the ability to carry out terrorist attacks on US and other Western interests both at home and aboard which also carries the ability to cause credible harm to political and economic ones as well. Islamists in many cases violent ones, do in my opinion have the ability to topple regimes in the Islamic World, Just look at Iran and Afghanistan as examples and with successes almost occurring in Somalia and a  very dangerous and explosive situation in Pakistan as examples. So Islamists of this nature can do so much more as was almost evidenced in Iraq where they also came close to defeating one of the best military forces that ever crossed the face of the Earth or actually defeat one such as was seen in Afghanistan in the 1980's. Violent and radical Islam doses have the ability to sway influence and cause harm and I feel, which is a scary thought that it could do more.                
              


Edited by Kevin - 20-Aug-2008 at 19:34
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  Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2008 at 20:21

I beg to differ Kevin.

Terrorists are nothing more than dreaming ideologue anarchists. Their dreams are ideal and unrealistic, the lower brass that is, and all what they do is a bombing here and there that won't have much of an effect and are largely pointless, like the explosions yesterday and today in Algeria which killed over 50 people. These people have no strategy nor have the power or the support to become a strategic threat, a security threat definitely but thats it.
 
As for what happened in Iran that a completely different thing and shows how people are ignorent of the dynamics in the region. The revolution wasn't Islamic to begin with it was nationalistic and was against a puppet brutal dictator who killed thousands sometimes in one day, just read what happened in Black Friday and the US response to know why the regime and many people in Iran hate the US. The US had a golden opportunity to take the revolutionaries, who were not communists by any means and many were secular, but they ignored the revolution and supported their SOB as Roosevelt once said and this is what happened. Later the Islamists hijacked the revolution and ousted the secularists, the first prime minister and president were both secularists and there was no "supreme leader" of the revolution, and then the west intervened by betting on the wrong horse, Saddam.
 
Same thing goes for Iraq and Afghanistan, both occupied countries ruled by people who came on the backs of western or soviet tanks and won dubiously conducted election and who were and remain gangsters responsible for the mess and death squads that still roam Iraq freely. Iraqi run resistance groups didn't participate in the horrendous massacres against shias and other Iraqis. They were nationalistic groups and many shia were within the ranks and some of the leaders were shia and when these guys realised that the real danger was from Al-Qaeda it was they not the Americans who ended them out of existance. These people have no other agenda but to free Iraq from the US and establish a real soverign democracy not the US embassy written laws democracy of today's Iraq.
 
The problem with the west is that it is the west who chooses to confront Islamists not the other way round. In Somalia the Islamists called on the US to come and see the facts on the ground for themselves but the US response was to unleash the Ethiopean Bulldog which lead as the BBC correspondent said to the worst disaster the Mogadishu ever saw. Any Islamist faction that wins elections fair and square is shunned by the entire world even if it declared it doesn't want anything to do with war or peace and that it only wants to develope their country. Islamists are very pragmatic people and many factions exists among them, just look at the AMAL group in Pakistan to understand how these people work. Yet the west always assumes these people are enemies and want to destroy them despite the fact that these countries couldn't even defeat their neighbours let alone defeat the west. Unless Pakistan becomes as strong as Russia, both have about the same number of people, and has the same amount of technology then you could be worried but since this is not the case then you worry about nothing.
 
Again, the only people who will lose are the west because they are blinded from the real threat to their existance, China, Russia and India, by an obsession with everything Islamic and in the end when things get worse what do you think will happen? they will come begging the Islamic world to interfer in their problems and help them, as they did in the cold war and when such a scenario, I hope that the Islamic world would just sit and watch because it has no business supporting either team.
 
AL-Jassas
 
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