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Topic ClosedNew map for balkans

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Chieftain
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: New map for balkans
    Posted: 30-Apr-2005 at 21:24
Oguz

I won't post any comment about your maps. All that was to be said has already been said.

I noticed you consider this "partition" a stupid theory and a useless argument (correct me if I'm wrong).
I heard that during the last couple of week/months there were large demonstrations in turkey against the US and your basic "complaint" was that they want to partition Turkey.
What's the whole story about that????
(it started when 2 kurdish children burned your flag)
To the gods we mortals are all ignorant.Those old traditions from our ancestors, the ones we've had as long as time itself, no argument will ever overthrow, in spite of subtleties sharp minds invent.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2005 at 02:36
Originally posted by Oguzoglu

Yeah, I think it is a great joke too, a joke which was the truth for Greeks for hundreds of years.

Sure it was ...As it was before u even existed as a race , the Alexander's Empire , and the Roman Empire , and the Byzantine Empire , all of them having as their base the Greek heritage and language....Then , came ur Ottoman empire...

U know , what they all have in common ?? I wont let u for weeks to wonder...They have in common the word WAS.....So for a person who keeps dreaming things the way they WERE ....he is about to wake up suddenly , in ned of a lollipop... 

I'm glad you understood the joke, jester. I called you jester because you know, in a palace like Topkapi, the Sultan Khan needed a really skillful jester, and I really believe that if you lived in Ottoman times, you could be a fine and suitable jester to serve for our khan. And it would be a nice opportunity for you to make a conformable career according to your personality.

Hey...I might be a jester by profession as u suggest...That is ok .Anybody has to do something for a living....But u , are natural born jesters ..this is completely different .But as u probably know , khans are extinct....so the job u suggest is worthless.....But u and ur fellows ...u r very much alive , to our amusement...

Now I am serious, why did you get this joke so serious and so hard? If you really believe you are offensed with my maps, I can erase them for you, but I cant erase them from history, sorry. So keep on sleeping with your dolls, they will protect you from our cold jokes...

Ok..now for the serious business...No i didnt take this joke of urs as a cold joke , or serious and i was not offended...at all believe me...I just reacted to ur joke , by teasing u .... and believe me i didnt expect from u to bite at the bait so easily..U dont have to erase it ...dont worry.

Isk.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2005 at 10:58

Originally posted by Phallanx

Oguz

I won't post any comment about your maps. All that was to be said has already been said.

I noticed you consider this "partition" a stupid theory and a useless argument (correct me if I'm wrong).
I heard that during the last couple of week/months there were large demonstrations in turkey against the US and your basic "complaint" was that they want to partition Turkey.
What's the whole story about that????
(it started when 2 kurdish children burned your flag)

Which partition? Do you mean the thing about Balkans or the Ottoman Empire thing? Please rephrase your point.

The thing about all those protests and demonstrations began that two boys were running away after a political meeting and protests, because there happened some violations of laws and some anarchy, and they tried to burn a Turkish flag. And after a couple of days, a group which calls itself as "prisoner friends" (or a similar thing) tried to deliver papers praiseing Abdullah calan, the head of PKK who is now in prison, to the citizens of Trebizond. One of them tried to give a paper to a man whose brother died during a clashing with PKK, and a fidght began. After all those happennings, a couple of days later, these prisoner lovers rented two busses from Istanbul, and they planned to go to Trabzon again to cause other vileness and attract the international media to this scandal, to show themselves as the people who are oppressed. This is how all these happennings appeared. But after all of these, it is proved that Turkish citizens reflected and will reflect hard to such vileness if necessary.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2005 at 11:11
By partition I mean exactly what the topic is all about.
A plan for "re-organization", change of borders, call it what you like.

What you mention on how these demonstrations started is correct but I heard that this lead to demonstrations against some alleged US plans to partition turkey and recognize a number of smaller independant countries.
In short, of some plan to reinstate the Treaty of Sevres.


To the gods we mortals are all ignorant.Those old traditions from our ancestors, the ones we've had as long as time itself, no argument will ever overthrow, in spite of subtleties sharp minds invent.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2005 at 11:14

Originally posted by ISK

Sure it was ...As it was before u even existed as a race , the Alexander's Empire , and the Roman Empire , and the Byzantine Empire , all of them having as their base the Greek heritage and language....Then , came ur Ottoman empire...

U know , what they all have in common ?? I wont let u for weeks to wonder...They have in common the word WAS.....So for a person who keeps dreaming things the way they WERE ....he is about to wake up suddenly , in ned of a lollipop... 

We always existed as a race, long before the Gkturks, Huns, etc. We didnt appear suddenly on the earth, and we have a proud history which we dont need ignorant Greek comment about it. People should firstly face at their racial purenessless and history before judging others. And Ottoman Empire didnt appear suddenly, as both a civilization and ethnicity, but it inherited an ancient cultural inheritance.

I dont need to dream about the good old past days, because these were all too long ago for Turkmens and other Turks. But since we dont need to dream, you should dream about those good old days of your empires, at least we are still powerful and dominant in our world, according to Greeks (not economically, since we dont have a brotherhood union which funds us their money).

Also, we can understand who are naturally born jesters and who has family pasts of jesters by having a single look to their posts. Just look at your posts, you begin all of them with a non-sense smiling, and the first thing wished from a jester is to always smile. You dont need a khan to serve for, just try to be a Greek fighter pilot and violate Turkish seaborders, and then flee away from the Turkish guard olane, and after two days, your government apoligize to us for one of their ignorant plots. Be sure that you will create a huge amusement for 70 million Turks as the "runaway bride", just like tens of other Greek pilots once did...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2005 at 11:39

Originally posted by Phallanx

By partition I mean exactly what the topic is all about.
A plan for "re-organization", change of borders, call it what you like.

What you mention on how these demonstrations started is correct but I heard that this lead to demonstrations against some alleged US plans to partition turkey and recognize a number of smaller independant countries.
In short, of some plan to reinstate the Treaty of Sevres.


I think Kosovo shouldnt be given to Serbia, since all of us witnessed the violations of human rights and massacres against Muslims there. It is very hard to guarantee the safety of those civilians after all those happennings and war. I think Kosova should join Albania. This is the only safe solution to the conflict in Balkans.

I have no idea about some US plans to seperate Turkey into smaller parts and to apply the old false treaty of Serves, but this sounds really redicilous. They dont have neither the right nor power to reach such a non-sense goal, and protests against this arent logical. But if some country ever tries to create an international issue about the old treaty of sevres which was never signed by the Ankara government who were officially and internationally accepted in the treaty of Losanne, Turkey has enough political background and right to just ignore this.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2005 at 11:59

This entire debate is so moot and pointless that it just seems like a waste of space!

Stop posting maps that are either imaginary or ancient. You don's see Greeks posting a map of Alexander's Empire do you? NO! So knock it off and stop living in the past.

Today countries are where they are, and the only way to expand borders is through war which is unacceptable! The dispute over the name of FYROM is one that needs to be settled by mediation and diplomats.  There are arguments to both sides that need to be presented with proof. I have my own personal opinions about the name for the people and land of FYROM but that does not involve ANY border changes. This includes the Agean and it's islands.

It scares me to think of the possibility if any nationalistic-madmen ever come to power and decided to sacrifice thousands if not millions of lives to add to their nations lands.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2005 at 12:35
Oguz

How about explainig exactly what "purenessless" means???

"We always existed as a race, long before the Gkturks, Huns, etc."

Why don't you give us a little bit of your history in a different topic, since this one is titled  "New map for balkans"
You can also explain all about your wet dreams of "power" in that different topic.

You dont need a khan to serve for, just try to be a Greek fighter pilot and violate Turkish seaborders, and then flee away from the Turkish guard olane, and after two days, your government apoligize to us for one of their ignorant plots. Be sure that you will create a huge amusement for 70 million Turks as the "runaway bride", just like tens of other Greek pilots once did.

You people are obviously , in lack of any actual arguments you invent them, just as you did your allegedly played on TV school oath.
Why don't you give us not many, just  example of violation of turkish borders IN A MORE RELEVENT TOPIC.

Stop screwing up every single topic WITH YOUR STUPID PROVOCATIONS.


To the gods we mortals are all ignorant.Those old traditions from our ancestors, the ones we've had as long as time itself, no argument will ever overthrow, in spite of subtleties sharp minds invent.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2005 at 13:03

Stop screwing up every single topic WITH YOUR STUPID PROVOCATIONS.

I dont need your advices to decide what to write. If you wish to learn who screws up every single topic, just have a look at the mirror, and then open your notebook and write "I wont screw up topics with my stupid provokations." fourty times, like every naughty 7 yrs old boy do when in elementry school to understand they were guilty.

Just have a look at Isk's post calling all of us jesters after he took one of my map jokes serioursly. And beware of a new anti-Turk Greek unification in another topic, you dared to change the route of enough topics in this forum.

Stop posting maps that are either imaginary or ancient. You don's see Greeks posting a map of Alexander's Empire do you? NO! So knock it off and stop living in the past.

Dont take it serious man, just calm down OK? IT was just a joke, and I cant understand what kind of threat of provokation does it have against you. And I once asked Isk that if he thinks you are offensed with my maps, I would erase them for not causing any problems. I just had those maps for fun, dont worry, we have no ideas of rebuilding Ottoman Empire.

If you wish to send some maps of Alexander's empire, just do it, I am enough civilized for not being offensed with maps that are 2500 years old.


 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2005 at 13:34
This topic is about the BALKANS. You opinion is accepted as long as it remains on topic!!!
As for the rest of your post, Isk had every right to claim you are a jester, since you managed to f**k up another topic with your childish posts that contain NO kind of proof nor relevance to the topic in question what so ever.

And let's say he was wrong, why continue it with your stupid claims of palace jesters and years under the empire's rule if not only to provoke???

You may not like my advice, but do take it, stop this BS and if you feel you have to continue it through a PM.

Anyway, back on topic:

I think Kosovo shouldnt be given to Serbia, since all of us witnessed the violations of human rights and massacres against Muslims there. It is very hard to guarantee the safety of those civilians after all those happennings and war. I think Kosova should join Albania. This is the only safe solution to the conflict in Balkans.

I have no idea about some US plans to seperate Turkey into smaller parts and to apply the old false treaty of Serves, but this sounds really redicilous. They dont have neither the right nor power to reach such a non-sense goal, and protests against this arent logical. But if some country ever tries to create an international issue about the old treaty of sevres which was never signed by the Ankara government who were officially and internationally accepted in the treaty of Losanne, Turkey has enough political background and right to just ignore this

The real question should be why did this partition happen in the first place. To believe it is only about religious disputes is naive. I suggest you look at a geologic map and see what are the area's sources. That would be a good first step.

As for Turkey, I don't recall the US asking for anyone's permission to invade, Iraq, Vietnam, Yugoslavia, El Salvador, Somalia............... the list of examples is endless.
It is well known by now that any country with large resources of oil, osmium, uranium, opium......... are next on the list.
Proof of this is that all the invaded countries in one way or another (either by military or by some goverment coup) all had large resources of the already  mentioned above.

To the gods we mortals are all ignorant.Those old traditions from our ancestors, the ones we've had as long as time itself, no argument will ever overthrow, in spite of subtleties sharp minds invent.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2005 at 13:37

Well Phallanx , i beg for ur excuse....but i do have to answer our dear jester Oguz. He is trying so hard to provoke an answer from me that i feel obliged to give it...

Originally posted by Oguzoglu

We always existed as a race, long before the Gkturks, Huns, etc. We didnt appear suddenly on the earth, and we have a proud history which we dont need ignorant Greek comment about it.

If u say we r ignorants u r right . We r Greeks , no Turks and Turkish history is not definitely our field of interest. But u as a Turk , u must open another topic , and enlighten us with ur glorious past..

People should firstly face at their racial purenessless and history before judging others.

Racialy pure ???? Aha...Here we have another thing to discuss. How for example u kept ur race pure ...Does the word genocide means anything to u ?? Another topic please to explain ur "purenesness" ?

And Ottoman Empire didnt appear suddenly, as both a civilization and ethnicity, but it inherited an ancient cultural inheritance.

The Ottoman empire appeared as a result of certain circumstanses. It inherited nothing...I still expet anyone from the Turkish co-forumers to explain EXACTLY WHAT THE OTTOMANS INHERITED...from the people that they have conquered..

I dont need to dream about the good old past days, because these were all too long ago for Turkmens and other Turks. But since we dont need to dream, you should dream about those good old days of your empires, at least we are still powerful and dominant in our world, according to Greeks (not economically, since we dont have a brotherhood union which funds us their money).

Good enough...We r both living today , not dreaming about the past , so ur map was a joke..As for the economical part....we became members of EU in 1981 , and even by then we were better economically than u .In 2000 we became economical paetners in EU ...U dont have the EU , but all these years u had good USA pouring money in ur economical black hole , money that went for nothing. Now USA is fed up with u and tries very hard to pass ur economical disaster to Europe , the next 10-15 years , a plan that the Europeans find it very untastefull for their liking...for a lot of reasons...On the other hand u have proved unable to do anything about ur economy..

Also, we can understand who are naturally born jesters and who has family pasts of jesters by having a single look to their posts.

I am sure u can...Since the moment i started posting and asking u different questions , u somehow failed to answer ANYONE of them ...This is what gave u the title of jester which u keep proudly.

Just look at your posts, you begin all of them with a non-sense smiling, and the first thing wished from a jester is to always smile.

Wrong as usual .... The smiling face is to show to u that i am a  good hearred person .... What is needed from a jester is to joke ...And u do it fine...Keep up the good job.

You dont need a khan to serve for, just try to be a Greek fighter pilot and violate Turkish seaborders, and then flee away from the Turkish guard olane, and after two days, your government apoligize to us for one of their ignorant plots. Be sure that you will create a huge amusement for 70 million Turks as the "runaway bride", just like tens of other Greek pilots once did...

Sure u r able to provide proof from our violations ehh?? Or should i remind u the noise that ur aircraft were providing exactly like "runaway bride" on their way to swim to the Aegean...I am sure u have a good memory of this..

Which reminded me another unaswered question: Ur violations are done because u want to show something .....a part of ur expansionist plan.....Our violations are part of what ??? ( i sense another joke coming )

Isk

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2005 at 14:07

Now lets have a serious analysis about the Balkan situation.The problems seem to be 2 . Kossovo and FYROM...

As far as i see it IF Kossovo becomes independent , it wont be long that it will vote for its union with Albania ....For this matter , i think that Kossovo , having 90% Albanian population , has to be divided. Other wise we will see more troubles .

Which bring us to FYROM who has 40% of its population Albanian. If Kossovo , as a whole , or as a part unites with Albania , then FYROM's Albanians will demand to unite too.This will mean the end of FYROM , which must be divided equally between Burlgaria , Serbia amd Greece...

But we will see...The problem is that as usual the Americn factor blundered again in the Balcans....

Isk.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2005 at 17:01
Originally posted by Alexander of Macedon

Just short explanation it's very funny and stupid to explane against that FOPOGreek-Bulgarian Antimacedonian propaganda.I'm Macedonian ,not Bulgarian,not serbian,not greek ,not albanian, but just MACEDONIAN who is proud to Macedonian history,who speak Macedonian Language etc.I think you know what i'm trying to say.

And about the map that is exactly what FOPOG want ,MACEDONIA TO BE ERASED OF THE MAP,and you know why beacause they are afraid to lose Aegean part of Macedonia or how they call it Greek macedonia.

This are maps of Macedonia,United Macedonia.

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2005 at 17:18
Originally posted by iskenderani

Now lets have a serious analysis about the Balkan situation.The problems seem to be 2 . Kossovo and FYROM...

As far as i see it IF Kossovo becomes independent , it wont be long that it will vote for its union with Albania ....For this matter , i think that Kossovo , having 90% Albanian population , has to be divided. Other wise we will see more troubles .

Which bring us to FYROM who has 40% of its population Albanian. If Kossovo , as a whole , or as a part unites with Albania , then FYROM's Albanians will demand to unite too.This will mean the end of FYROM , which must be divided equally between Burlgaria , Serbia amd Greece...

But we will see...The problem is that as usual the Americn factor blundered again in the Balcans....

Isk.

Kosovo WILL be independant. Its not a matter of IF rather its a matter or WHEN.

But yes what is open to see, is the aftermath. What the Slavic population of FYROM will do. My guess is that the majority of them will join Bulgaria.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2005 at 05:25

alexander of skopije this is called brain wash...

Tito has made very good job

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2005 at 05:28

 

 Kosovo to Albania, this is revolting.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2005 at 05:32
the language of slavian macedonia is bulgarian (france map). just refresh ur memory thks
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2005 at 10:39
Originally posted by Aeolus

Kosovo WILL be independant. Its not a matter of IF rather its a matter or WHEN.

I agree...its a matter of when and how....( under which conditions )

But yes what is open to see, is the aftermath. What the Slavic population of FYROM will do. My guess is that the majority of them will join Bulgaria.

I agree on that too , although i preffered to have an a straight borders with Serbia . But what is for Greece to gain ? in my opinion Greece should demand the area of Northern Epirus for compensation.It can be done easily....It is almost ready.

Isk.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2005 at 12:52

    

    An interesting link to reveal the history of balkans

http://members.tripod.com/giorgi10/id58.htm#david_howarth___ _____greek_barbarity

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2005 at 13:19
sk, fu*k off, I am fed up with argueing with your shi*. Go and find yourself other enemies, we are too strong for you. I wont be a problem kid like you in this forum. So just fu*k off and believe what you wanna believe. We have more imprtant jobs than dealing with oppressed kids who are trying to take their historical revenge with his sticky mentality in forums, instead of battlefields...

Edited by Oguzoglu
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