Russia's attack disproportionate

Originally posted by pikeshot1600 Originally posted by Seko The gloves are off and pandora's box has opened. Tem, you say what others hold back. A stellar veiwpoint with gumption. Your statement is what most of us in the west likely believe yet are to kind to mention. To take the Sarmatian's side we still do paint a bad picture of Russia even though they are no longer the Soviet Union. But hey, they are Russia, fair game. How does she get out of this label and the concept we have of her?    Having made the previous post about the Czar, etc., I feel it is best to state that Russia is acting in her interests, and can be expected to do so.  Russia has in the past been very tough on opposition on her own borders, and it has worked in the past, so why not now?

F William Engdahl: There are far bigger stakes being played out in Georgia than a territorial dispute

http://therealnews.com/t/index.php?option=com

Edited by Bankotsu - 14-Aug-2008 at 05:03

I complitely agree with Beylerbei.

make that two!

Originally posted by Sarmat12     Of course USSR treated some of its puppets well. But Poland, Baltic states and some other countries are really bad examples. Because of the Stalinist legacy. But to claim that Russia now is Stalinist is the same saying that modern Germany is Nazist.

i didn't said that but Poland particularly already rebelled to Czarist Russia. why is it a bad example? because it was one of those puppets who dared to stood up against the big brother?

haha, the hero of the proletariat has returned, what an honour for me! hey bey, why don't you come and rescue me? i am working in a big bad capitalist factory like a slave, but beware i'm part of a trade-union! has your anti-americanism already made a good commie of you? mmhm apaprently not, but nowadays every anti-american spoiled western prats styles itself Commie anyways...

Originally posted by Beylerbeyi It is quite clear that Russia can come to an understanding with the Western Europeans, Turkey and Iran, and all can balance each other's imperialisms out in Europe. Unfortunately, USA is a rabid dog that keeps attacking Russia and undermining the world peace.

how's that possible given that Russia itself is an Imperialist power herself? of course the US is at the moment the biggest enemy of world peace, because you've not the power to threaten the world yourself.

"in that case US tanks rolled through every capital, the difference bewteen Budapest and Saigon is that the US tanks in Sotuhvietnam tried to win a Civil war for their allies that they couldn't win whiel in Budapest those tansk were used to quell an open rebellion vs the Puppetmaster."

Originally posted by Sarmat12 Some of them were treated really well. Likewise some American puppets were getting good treatment and some got very bad treatment.

Which American puppets got very bad treatment? Just interested ....

And if you really want to examine the histoy so thorguhly let's get into more distant part let's ask who first attack who and who first captured other state's capital and was looting, raping and killing first?

And who was shelling Georgian villages since the beginning of summer? I actually don't want to go into argument over this issue, but its very clear, that those were Ossetians who were supplied with Russian artillery. So tell me what kind of "Peacekeepers" are Russians if they supply the rebels with artillery, apc's (Abhazians even have tanks and SU plaines) while in peacekeeping theory they should disarm them. I somehow can't recall UN peacekeepers in Leboanon hanging out with Hezbollah for example. Also this conflict set a new precedent in history where peacekeepers happily took the flags and standarts of rebels and openly displayed them on their armoured units. Somehow I also don't recall NATO invading Serbia with wawing Kosovar or Bosnian flags.

Do people of Poland and Russia need to review that bitter past again, again and again.   No, the don't need it !

Sorry, but it is rather simplistic view. There are still many unresolved issues in their past.

I still don't understand how you can compare USSR with Russia. Perhaps you forgot that Russian people got rid of the USSR themselves.

So? That doesn't change the fact that SU is Russia. German people also got rid of German Empire in 1918, but the Germany didn't go away.

Russians themselves don't see and feel any difference between SU and Russia as a state idea and concept. The first one in their mind was strong till "suka" Gorbachov destroyed it.

"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent" I like this quote and tell me now please who started the war.

Of course Georgians. So lets laugh about how they fell in Russian trap.

Originally posted by Roberts   Which American puppets were getting bad treatment

Originally posted by Beylerbeyi does anyone really believe Russia will be the good neighbour ever? talks about cooperation are a good laugh.   It is quite clear that Russia can come to an understanding with the Western Europeans, Turkey and Iran, and all can balance each other's imperialisms out in Europe. Unfortunately, USA is a rabid dog that keeps attacking Russia and undermining the world peace.   anyways does anyone here really believe any of the current USA puppets would become anti-american after the US ceases to exist as a superpower for whatever reason? the answer is no, simply because USA treated and treats is puppets well, something the USSR/Russia never did, and then they wonder why even countries like Ukraine co-operate with Poland and the west in general over Russia.   What a load of garbage. Go and ask how the people feel about America in Turkey and other American puppet states in the Middle East, and hear what the answer is even when your beloved masters are still the only superpower. Ask Iranians how they feel, remember they were an American satellite before the revolution in 1979. Ask Chileans, search Penguin's posts on American aggression in Latin America on this very site. Ask the Vietnamese in Vietnam. Ask Haitians, Panamanians, Guatemalans, Nicaraguans, Cubanese, ask Mexicans. Ask South African blacks about how they feel about the US support to Apartheid while USSR was supporting Mandela. Hell, ask the French, even your fellow Germans (well, maybe not your kamaraden). I was in Germany when Sep 11 happened, the building was collapsing, I said 'that was bad many people must have died in there', a regular German guy (not political in any way) in my office replied 'good riddance, the Amis (German derogatory term for American, like yank) were asking for it'...   So no, US did not treat its satellites well. It terrorised many. For every Soviet foreign intervention during the Cold war there are at least two direct and at least two more indirect American interventions.    well Anton said the USSR gave Poland many territories in the West after ww2. he didn't mentioned that the USSR first annexed East Poland herself! he said that Hungary amongst others profited from the USSR, now thats the explanation for all those tanks in Budapest 1956!     Yes, Russia is imperialist, so was the USSR after Lenin. However, compared to the West, they are clearly the lesser evil, absolute amateurs, always on the defensive.   Russia wants co-operation with the USA?   Russia wants what everyone else wants, secure borders. However, the word 'cooperation' does not exist in the Yankee dictionary. The only language they understand is spoken by guns. It is also visible in their culture if you watch their films, they solve all problems by shooting them. What US wants is to make Russia do what it tells them, like it did under Yeltsin. A clown who was celebrated in the West as a hero of democracy (he ordered tanks to the Duma) while Putin (who futhered the interests of his own country rather than those of Wall Street) is declared the the new Hitler.   so bottom line, why does Russia nowadays gets politically isolated?   Russia isn't isolated. You are deluded or duped into believing this, but it is quite normal since the Western people are notorious for believing that the world consists only of them. Western art forms are 'universal', Western law is 'natural law', etc. etc.   Turkish Prime minister was in Moscow recently. China and Russia have good relations. India has good relations with them. Even EU states were talking to the Russians to arrange the cease fire.   because it doesn't know how to treat its puppets well and it created this situation herself, so yes, Russia is bad because Russia is always bad, or did US tanks ever roll through the streets of any of its puppets capitals?   This is ignorance beyond belief, or a lame propaganda attempt. US tanks rolled through the streets of Haiti, Guatemala, Philipinnes, Panama, Grenada, Dominican Republic, South Vietnam, South Korea just from the top of my head. Maybe for you these don't count because the people they killed there are not white but merely untermenschen unlike the Czechs or Hungarians?   Of course the US is rich unlike Russia, and they usually just buy the local elite to do the dirty jobs. I won't write the list of countries they intervened through proxy here, since it would make the post a few pages longer. IIRC, the total is around 80 since 1945.   people complain Russia hasn't yet entered the 21st century, from what i see Russia isn't even in the 20th century, or do they still maintain they have some sort of influence on the Balkans/Serbia (hello ww1)?   Russia is imperialist, and it sure did impose things they did not like on some eastern Europeans. And surely the Eastern Europeans have the right to be independent. But they are not independent, they are American puppets. The important things is, unlike the US Russia is weak. It can be contained by independent powers. The danger it poses to the world is miniscule compared to the danger posed by the West.   Those condemning Russia should first tell us why the f**k does NATO still exist today (as it is supposed to be an anti-Warsaw pact organisation)? What the f**k is NATO doing in the ex-Soviet Caucasus? What the f**k are the Americans doing installing missiles in so-called 'independent' countries such as Poland? What the f**k is SStonia doing in NATO? What the f**k is Kosovo other than some invented country to accomodate a huge US airbase? What the f**k is the West doing in the Middle East?   The answer is, the West has been expanding like Hitler did in Eastern Europe, led by the rabid neocon dogs, but as observed here (actually repeated from the Guardian article) no great power retreats forever. In this war Russia regained its great power status, by checking Western expansion.   Of course the Westerners (and their East European serfs) started whining immediately of 'Russian aggression', of 'sub-human slavic hordes', of 'disproportionate response'... As if Iraq was self defence, as if Israel's destruction of Lebanon was proportionate (the West blocked the UN ceasefire, allowing the Israel's bombardment to continue)... I say if it takes this to remove the rabid Western imperialists out of the Caucasus, so let it be.   I recall a saying something like:  "When the Czar of all the Russias, the commander of 3,000,000 foot guards, horse guards, cossacks and mujiks starts to talk of peace, it is time for decent people to look to their guns."   And what shall decent people do when the President of the United States, who spends more on military than rest of the world put together, who invades a new country every few years, who openly declares that his goal is 'full spectrum dominance' of the world speaks of peace, of democracy, of freedom?    I think Russians are too light on you. Even the Soviets were. If USSR were like the US, we would be living in the Mad Max world now.

Originally posted by Roberts Well Poland doesn't need any economical benefits from USA. The benefit itself is that Poland doesn't receive any "economical benefits" from USSR/Russia.