Russia's attack disproportionate

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Russia's use of strategic bombers and ballistic missiles against Georgia's civilians outside of the South Ossetian conflict is "far disproportionate" to Georgia's alleged attack on Russian peacekeepers, a senior U.S. official said Saturday.

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The official was not authorized to speak on the record due to the sensitive nature of the diplomacy.

Russia's use of its potent air weaponry signals a "severe" and "dangerous escalation in the crisis," the official said.

"For the life of me, I can't image that being a proportionate response to the charge that Georgia has attacked Russian peacekeepers," the official said. "It's hard for us to understand what Russia's plan is here."

The official said Russia is probably trying to destabilize Georgia politically to kill its chances of joining NATO.

Georgia wants to join NATO, but Russia opposes the move, concerned that the alliance's eastward march will erode its influence. NATO rejected Georgia's membership bid in April despite strong lobbying from U.S. President Bush, though the alliance promised that Georgia could join at a later date. Watch President Bush comment on conflict »

Still, Georgia bears some of the blame for the fighting over South Ossetia, the official said. Recently, the United States has had "very blunt exchanges with" Georgia, telling its leaders that they have no chance of winning a war with Russia and that they should stick to a path of diplomacy. Watch injured Georgian soldier being treated »

The official said European allies have told the United States that Russia has "crossed a line of unacceptable behavior" and should "expect international condemnation."

"I do sense an emerging unified view among our key allies," he said.

The United Sates, Britain and NATO on Friday called for a cease-fire. And on Saturday, French President Nicolas Sarkozy proposed an immediate cease-fire as part of a three-step plan to end fighting.

Sarkozy's proposal calls for the return of Russian and Georgian troops to their former positions and requires Georgia's sovereignty and territorial integrity be respected. A statement from Sarkozy's office did not provide further details on the plan.

The official also said the State Department has authorized only the voluntary departure of dependents of U.S. embassy employees from the Georgian capital of Tbilisi. The official said he did not know how many dependents would choose to leave.

Meanwhile, the U.N. Security Council held a private meeting on Georgia on Saturday, though it seemed unlikely that there would be any immediate agreement on a statement on the conflict.

The U.S., European Union and international security organizations on Friday called for an end to the fighting

Bush and Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin on Friday discussed the conflict in Beijing, where they attended the opening of the Summer Olympics.

The EU and the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe were sending envoys to Georgia to secure a cease-fire, but a senior U.S. State Department official said the United States would send only a representative after a cease-fire is in place.

The European Union said it was working with other parties "towards a ceasefire in order to prevent further escalation of this conflict." EU spokeswoman Christina Gallach told CNN: "We think it is not acceptable to see these scenes of bloodshed and destruction."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/09/georgia.reax/index.html


Edited by Kevin - 10-Aug-2008 at 02:07

CNN...  the only reason the West's knickers are in a twist is the vulnerability of the BTC pipeline.

Georgia claims to have "liberated" South Ossetia.  Thousands of Ossetian refugees are pouring across the border into Russia.  Hardly consistent with a "liberation".  Russia should flatten Georgia for its instigation of a brutal war against a nation it claims yet has no valid or historical rights to.  The people of Ossetia want nothing to do with Georgia.

Ossetians and Abkhazians are not Georgians.

Georgia is attempting to ethnically cleanse the region in like of its attempts in the 90s.
http://www.euronews.net/en/article/09/08/2008/russia-ferries-s-ossetian-refugees-to-safe-haven/




Edited by Zagros - 10-Aug-2008 at 04:25

If there's one thing you can be sure of, it's that Russia couldn't care less about what Washington says. Or the rest of us.

What I say is, you get the odd soundbite from Washington trying to exert some form of reassurance to the masses that they're the ones in charge, they make the right decisions, and no one else can do anything without a watchful eye leering over them. It's all about getting into people's heads I think, covering over double standards and attempting to look authoritarion at the same time. bs.

Originally posted by Zagros CNN...  the only reason the West's knickers are in a twist is the vulnerability of the BTC pipeline.

Thats the same reason for Russia too.

Georgia claims to have "liberated" South Ossetia.  Thousands of Ossetian refugees are pouring across the border into Russia.  Hardly consistent with a "liberation".  Russia should flatten Georgia for its instigation of a brutal war against a nation it claims yet has no valid or historical rights to.  The people of Ossetia want nothing to do with Georgia.

Interestingly what did Russia do to help Ossetinians while pro-russian Shevarnadze was in rule in Georgia.

Ossetians and Abkhazians are not Georgians.

Neither of them or Russians too. While of course Russia gave everyone in Abhazia and S.Ossetia Russian passports for free. I don't see them giving the same passports to every Tajik, Uzbek, Azeri who migrated to Russia for better living conditions. Only ethic Russians from Baltics or minorities in Georgia seem to get Russian passports without any problems if they want them.

Truth is the first victim in war.


Edited by Roberts - 10-Aug-2008 at 12:37

But they want to be a part of the Russian Federation, or independent with Russian support, which is their right.

Originally posted by Mortaza But they want to be a part of the Russian Federation, or independent with Russian support, which is their right.   Russia is absolutely not one who have right to talk about this(independence or right issues, after how they treated their minorities). Anyway, You can follow your countries politic about some issues(Like me.), but no need to play ethical games.   By the way, If azeri at iran want to join azerbaycan, what would you support? It looks like you fully support azeris, arent you?   It was georgian soil and russia has not any right to interfere others soil.

Until the disintegration of the USSR, Georgia had not existed as an independent entity since the Safavids conquered it.  What made Georgia think it could claim those territories? Other nations exist there who want to be independent.  When the USSR broke into pieces the Abkhazians and Ossetians immediately went to war to liberate their lands from Georgia's claim. They had their chance at the same time as Georgia, but Georgia tried to conquer them and they successfully resisted. 

On this basis the Ossetian and Abkhazian claim for independence is every bit as valid as that of Georgia.  The only reason they have not been recognised is because the UN works mostly in the West's interest.

Off topic: but as for the Azaries, if they want independence they should have it... but they don't.  In fact the reverse is happening, since the Shah's time - every year thousands of Azarbaijan citizens move to Iran because of the terrible economic conditions.  That is why there are so many people with family on both sides of the border


Edited by Zagros - 10-Aug-2008 at 13:18

It does.  Do you know why? 

Because when the Abkhazians and Ossetians defeated the Georgians first time around, the Russians sent peace keepers to maintain the truce.  On pushing the Georgians out of their country in the 90s, the Ossetians earned their independence but the UN will not recognise them... why? 

When Georgia attacked Ossetia on Thursday it killed scores of Russians and attacked Russian personnel.

Additionally, Russia does not recognise Ossetia and Abkhazia as part a of Georgia and recognises their independence, so in Russian eyes it is not a national Georgian issue but an international one in which Russians were killed.


Edited by Zagros - 10-Aug-2008 at 14:13

The Chinese UN personnel were in an observation outpost - the Israelis claimed their attack was an accident.  Israel did not attack the Chinese army.  Israel and Lebanon are not beside China and China and Lebanon are not allies. 

By the way, This peace keepers, It think georgia does not see them as peace keepers but occupier?

Georgia has no right to claim Ossetia, Ossetia has never been a part of Georgia.  Georgia is the aggressor.  Ossetia is entitled to seek help from its allies.  Georgia claims Ossetia and has unsuccessfully tried to control it. 

Originally posted by Roberts Interestingly what did Russia do to help Ossetinians while pro-russian Shevarnadze was in rule in Georgia.

They are Russian proxies, they have little choice. They occupy some Ingush land so not popular on that side (think Beslan) and have Georgians to their south. Their Russian citizenship is their protection.

Once upon a time the KLA was a terrorist organisation in the eyes of washington then it was a liberation force. No one here is gullible in thinking Russia is some savoiur, the Chechens-Inguish also have a right to indepedance.

But the Georgians are bullies to their minorties, so if you belong to a group that is being bulllied by them , then good riddance a bigger bully comes in and sorts them out. Who cares if its all about promoting themselves, not like NATO is any different. Its all about which power helps you out more in your locality.

Originally posted by Mortaza Russia is absolutely not one who have right to talk about this(independence or right issues, after how they treated their minorities). Anyway, You can follow your countries politic about some issues(Like me.), but no need to play ethical games.