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Poll Question: Which do you think is the best soldier of their time?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
11 [14.47%]
1 [1.32%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
6 [7.89%]
4 [5.26%]
31 [40.79%]
1 [1.32%]
1 [1.32%]
21 [27.63%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted

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    Posted: 12-Aug-2008 at 00:18
^
Whether the Hopolites were drafted or genuine volunteers is not important. What is important is that Hopilite citizen soldiers fought extremely well and represented the entire society (motivated, unmotivated, physically fit, the unphysicaly unfit, the naturally aggressive and the passive). They were also usually part time soldiers.
 
This is completely different from the Navy Seals, SAS, Samurai, etc.  In these cases, most members of the society would be rejected for membership in such units.  The very small number of people who do qualify, then train full time for war. 


Edited by Cryptic - 12-Aug-2008 at 00:22
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2008 at 01:27
The romans wiped them outLOLLOLLOLLOL


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2008 at 07:40
Originally posted by Count Belisarius

The romans wiped them outLOLLOLLOLLOL


Erm, no they didn't, they conquered them, and that's because the Greeks had absolutely no sense of unity whatsoever.  That is one of the few things about the ancient Hellens that truly pisses me off.

Where is the English Longbowman on this list?  They are responsible for wiping out every brave man in France, thus leaving only those unwilling to fight left, paving the way for the modern French...! (I'd like to say I'm joking, but France's actions in WWI and II were just...cowardly.)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2008 at 08:00
Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin

(I'd like to say I'm joking, but France's actions in WWI and II were just...cowardly.)


Counter:

http://www.exile.ru/articles/detail
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2008 at 08:35
Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin

Originally posted by Count Belisarius

The romans wiped them outLOLLOLLOLLOL


Erm, no they didn't, they conquered them, and that's because the Greeks had absolutely no sense of unity whatsoever.  That is one of the few things about the ancient Hellens that truly pisses me off.

Where is the English Longbowman on this list?  They are responsible for wiping out every brave man in France, thus leaving only those unwilling to fight left, paving the way for the modern French...! (I'd like to say I'm joking, but France's actions in WWI and II were just...cowardly.)
 
An extremely nasty slur on the French.
 
WWI they fought bravely and well throughout. Yes after some disastrous handling they had their mutiny BUT that was only against attacking recklessly and an improvement in their basic conditions. All dealt with well by Petain. Thereafter no problems,
 
WWII did not show the French at their best they were poorly lead from the top and that showed. However many units fought bravely and with distinction even in 1940. Thereafter once reconstituted they also fought bravely and well.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2008 at 08:46
Originally posted by Peteratwar

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin

Originally posted by Count Belisarius

The romans wiped them outLOLLOLLOLLOL


Erm, no they didn't, they conquered them, and that's because the Greeks had absolutely no sense of unity whatsoever.  That is one of the few things about the ancient Hellens that truly pisses me off.

Where is the English Longbowman on this list?  They are responsible for wiping out every brave man in France, thus leaving only those unwilling to fight left, paving the way for the modern French...! (I'd like to say I'm joking, but France's actions in WWI and II were just...cowardly.)
 
An extremely nasty slur on the French.
 
WWI they fought bravely and well throughout. Yes after some disastrous handling they had their mutiny BUT that was only against attacking recklessly and an improvement in their basic conditions. All dealt with well by Petain. Thereafter no problems,
 
WWII did not show the French at their best they were poorly lead from the top and that showed. However many units fought bravely and with distinction even in 1940. Thereafter once reconstituted they also fought bravely and well.


Perhaps I was unfair with the comment regarding WWI, but in WWII they did not impress me at all.  Fleeing from British troops after thinking they were German is the first thing that comes to mind.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2008 at 14:02
Originally posted by Count Belisarius

No, the greeks drafted farmers for their army and you can't have a city whose citizens are mainly soldiers who will plant the crops? the spartans had helots for that but they were unique.
 
What makes you think Athenian citizens planted crops? All Greek states had slaves.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2008 at 14:23
So only slaves did the farmwork? don't you know where the hopolite's came from?


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2008 at 16:31
Those numbers look a little odd to me. I wonder how many people actually voted in this Poll?This-post-of-yours-made-no-sense-at-all,-and-I-think-you-are-an-idiot,-but-I-am-so-not-going-to-drop-down-to-your-level-and-admit-it-to-your-face
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Aug-2008 at 05:05
Different warriors were suited to their own environment, fighting style, their commanders, etc.  It's like animals.  There is no animal that is better suited than the next,  they are all suited well to their way of life.
What is the officer problem?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2008 at 15:58
Originally posted by Count Belisarius

So only slaves did the farmwork? don't you know where the hopolite's came from?


Slaves in Greece where not like we imagine them. People have the Roman image of the slave in their minds. Except from the poor bastards that worked in mines and in ships the rest had almost the same quality of life with the average free citizen who would work the fields side by side with his 2-3 slaves.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2008 at 16:01
Originally posted by Vorian

Originally posted by Count Belisarius

So only slaves did the farmwork? don't you know where the hopolite's came from?


Slaves in Greece where not like we imagine them. People have the Roman image of the slave in their minds. Except from the poor bastards that worked in mines and in ships the rest had almost the same quality of life with the average free citizen who would work the fields side by side with his 2-3 slaves.
 
That's not what I was talking about.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2008 at 22:50
my vote is for the SAS
compared to other speacal forces who share a simalar role they may not be the best equiped but they get the job done
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2008 at 02:42
I respect the French but i must say WW2 they were cowardly. France Said "Poland we are allies right?" Poland Says "Help" So what do the french do instead of launching a assault into west germany they start digging in around france yep thanks france. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Sep-2008 at 23:44
United States Marines. Modern day Spartans.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Sep-2008 at 16:40
Best?  Which factors make up the best - most disciplined, better led, organized and equipped?  Winning victory against the longest odds? All of the above, I suppose.  However, overall impact on history is the most important defining characteristic, I would assert.   Some, like the SS don't count. The best don't fight for execrable causes.

That being said, here is my top list, in descending order (starting with the best)

#1 The Roman Legionary (Marian Reforms to the reign of Diocletian)
#2 Macedonian Companions (foot and horse)
#3 Mongol Heavy Cavalry
#4 Royal Navy crewmen, from the 16th to 19th Centuries (ships of the line).
#5 Greek Hoplite - any city.  The Spartans were good, but the Athenians had their moments.
#6 Turkish Janissaries
#7 Allied airborne troops, WW2: 101st, 82nd, Red Devils, others.
#8 The British Tommy - up to WW2.  After that, a sharp decline in effectiveness.
#9 Napoleon's Imperial Guard
#10 Swedish Musketeers - 30 years war, the army of Gustavus Adolphus.






Edited by Charlie - 12-Sep-2008 at 16:40
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2008 at 00:57
What about Cataphracts? I didn't know that the mongols had heavy cavalry


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2008 at 05:58
I have several picks, actually.

First, in the Americas--the warriors of almost all of the various societies in Mexico during and shortly after the spanish occupation. Emphasis on the Mexica and the various cultures collectively (and pejoratively) known as the Chichimecs. Also, the Mapuche of chile and the Seminoles of the florida region were viewed (rightfully so) as particularly tenacious combatants.

There are some absolutely INSANE stories from spaniards about these people. Things like one warrior holding off two horsemen for over an hour, taking away one's lance, and fighting with it for another hour until being shot by a crossbowman. Like an enemy stabbed with two lances and continuing to hold off four opponents. Like arrows fired with such force they went through a horse's metal head armor, it's head, two thicknesses of mail and buckskin armor, and into a rib cage. Like an almost obscene level of courage and discipline, and a tenacity and ferocity that apparently suprised even veteran warriors from combat with the turks, who were considered absolutely deadly at the time.

Granted, a lot of the stories are probably exaggerated. Some of them could easily be outright lies. But even so, the picture that gets painted is one of truly deadly and skilled warriors--not just savage yelling steretypical barbarians, but shockingly disciplined, trained, inventive, and brutal combatants--and this was through the eyes of the people who conquered them. You've done something right if the people you eventually LOSE to are that impressed by your abilities.

In the Mediterranean, the Roman Legions. Disciplined, effective, almost mechanically precise. I'd consider their parthian enemies quite high on the list, as well. And during the Byzantine era, the Goths were...shockingly effective. They learned thir lessons well, ultimately.

In africa, the Zulu empire's warriors under Shaka. UNEQUIVOCALLY.  The nubian cavalry the Carthaginians used is a definite, as well--very, VERY highly regarded. The military of the egyptians, before being eclipsed by other powers, was very good.

In asia...well, it's big place and I don't know that terribly much about it. Probably too many to list, although the rajputs were apparently quite good, and I admire the mongols.

In australia, the Kangaroos. And the Saltwater crocodiles. And the snakes. And the spiders. Hell, even the SHEEP. And the people. ALL OF THEM.

Uh...that's all for now. Maybe I'll think of some more.


Who is the great dragon whom the spirit will no longer call lord and god? "Thou shalt" is the name of the great dragon. But the spirit of the lion says, "I will." - Nietzsche

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2008 at 23:08
All of them lose out to the klibanophorosBig%20smileLOLTongue hussar's are a close second


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Sep-2008 at 01:20
Originally posted by Count Belisarius

All of them lose out to the klibanophorosBig%20smileLOLTongue hussar's are a close second


*cough*showmeaklibanophorosandi'llshowyousomeonewhodieswhenyoulurehimupamountainpathandtiprocksontohimandshoothimfullofarrows*cough*

But yeah, the klibanaophoros and the hussars were pretty awesome.




Edited by TheARRGH - 26-Sep-2008 at 01:21
Who is the great dragon whom the spirit will no longer call lord and god? "Thou shalt" is the name of the great dragon. But the spirit of the lion says, "I will." - Nietzsche

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