could Istanbul withstand the turks if the door wasn’t left open

Thnks for the info Seko , which i already had , but thnks anyway.

Ur attempt to explain the term "Rumi" , as u probably can understand , is not only lame , but something more.

If u call somebody , a Hindu , this is to say which place of the world is coming from. Understandable. If u call Mevlana , Anatolian , it is probably correct , as i think that Afganistan belongs to the general area ( not sure though ).

Regarding the word Rumi -

Also the term "Rum" or "Rumi" was used to describe a descendant of the old Roman empire , which on the East was mainly a Greek empire , as Romans , have not continued their existence there , or they were Hellenised completely.In this East Roman Empire , the official language was Greek ( Latin had become a secondary language ) and the religion was the GreekOrthodox .

Even today Greeks are called "Hellinas" , "Greek" ( which is also a Hellenistic word ) , and "Romios" which derives from the word Roman..

So IF Celaleddin Rumi , used the term "Rumi" , was simply to emphasize , his ancestry lineage . He was of Greek origin , and i am curious why u and not only u , try to denounce that .Instead u should have produced tens of names from Turkish philosophers that advanced the philosophical analysis that was made 1700 years before , by Plato , or Aristoteles , to emphasize as "John" have said , the "greatness" of the Turkish culture . Instead we have entered a debate about Celaleddin Rumi....He was only an example..

Isk.

I really do not understand where you are completely coming from? You stated that Rumi is a Greek. I then showed a page that says he was born in Afghannistan and practiced in Anatolia (Konya-Iconium). If he was Greek then please show us your proof. In your pursuit to denigrate Turkish or Ottoman culture and benefits to the world, you have chosen him as an example. My response is in regards to your misguided example.

And from my  side , i cannot understand what u r trying to prove. Clearly Celaleddin Rumi , was no Turk , he was an Afgan , borned in Afganistan. By the way u r aware of the tribe of Calash in Afganistan , who believe to be descendants from the soldiers of Alexander the Great. So why does it annoys u if an Afgan calls himslef a Greek ??

On the contrary , i am not trying to denigrate anything...I just want to know more about the benefits the Ottomans gave to the world.

U ask for proof....Ok here is ur proof , ur own words : " Rumi was used by Turks as a name for inhabitants of the Roman empire." Exactly , but u must add that by the time there was no Roman empire...It existed only the Hellenised , East Roman Empire , which was called the Byzantine Empire.

Rumi was used by Turks as a name for inhabitants of the Roman empire. When Turks moved into lands of the old Roman empire they used the word Rum to i dentify with it as a location. As in the Seljuks of Rum, Turks used this wording as a location for mostly Anatolia up to that time. Later in the Ottoman years, Rum-Eli was known as the european provinces. Now just because Turks used and identified with the wording of Rum does not mean that they were of Rum blood or from Rum culture and ethnicity.

As for the rest and the use of the word RUM , for different locations , this is not our subject.

Rum does correlate with the Greek dominated Byznatine Romano Empire also. For modern day linquists, perhaps Rum has other connotations as well. Many Turks have called themselves Rum since they lived in Anatolia. Mehmed II even called himself an Emporer of Rum. Since he wanted to identify with the greatness of the Roman Empire. I do not believe that all Turks who assumed to identify with Rum or used a surname of Rum were, by blood or culture,  Greek, however. Ancestral lineage was the least likely reason for a central asian to call themselves Rum.

Of course , and i agree with u .The word RUM was used to say that these people were inhabitants , of the location that WAS the East RUM ( Roman ) Empire , the Byzantime Empire and correctly Mehmed II was calling himself as Emperor of the Rum...that was what he had conquered after all.

Science never stopped in the Ottaman empire. Caravansarays, Madrassas of higher learning, art - (ceramics, caligraphy, miniatures), carpet weaving, creative foods, architcture- (fountains, mosques, bridges, roads, etc), military science, astronomy, medicine were some of the cultural aspects that the Ottomans built in there time. Ali Kuscu, Molla Lutfi, Mirim Celebi, Piri Reis even were a few of the scientists in that period.

Now , as far as i know , caravansarays were just trading posts , and nothing more. As for madrassas , i would like to know which madrassa was so famous that students from all over the world visited her to study there , and what where the sciences that were taught there. We clealy have a difference of opinion here . I am talking about philosophy , sciences , phusics , mathematics that at this time were flourishing in the East , and u tell me about caligrafy , carpet weaving , creative foods and architecture.Piri Reis as i know was an admiral , not a scientist , and even his famous charts were copied from other sources , as it is clear he never left the Med waters..As for the others

### Ottomans as empire builders were interested in learning the practical arts and sciences but not so much in metaphysical speculations. Scholars returning home from the well established Madrasa located in Egypt, Iran and Western Asia, brought home an old controversy that was going on among followers of Imam Ghazali and Ibn Rushd, regarding the relationship of rational thinking to faith. Specifically, could the scientific realities of life, for example, be contradictory to the truth of faith (pillars of belief or credo). In 1478, Sultan Mehmet the Conqueror put this crucial question, long over-due, before a select group of Muslim scholars. After weeks of deliberations, the scholars held up Ghazali's tahafut (incompatibility) argument against the counter views held by Ibn Rushd who, by the way, had strongly influenced the Renaissance in the west. The scholarly verdict was that the human mind, vulnerable as it is, must stop right there and yield to the faith in dogma. The Sultan had apparently confirmed this proposition which thereafter became and remained the law of the land. It marked the end of all scientific enquiries and speculations that may have fallen or seemed totally contrary to the established (sunni/orthodox) faith. The Ottomans prosecuted many young and talented persons on the grounds of would-be heresy or apostacy.###

This was the fate of culture and science in the Ottoman Empire.

The renaissance never hit the Ottomans till much later. It did not fit the Ottoman leaders needs until later in the empires decline. During Ottoman growth, many sciences from ancient sources (western and eastern) were translated to Turkish, Arabic and Persian and even Greek.

The above sentnce of urs , is my coclusion too.There is no point to translate a document if u dont want , to use it . The Ottoman society denounced renaissance , for whatever the reason either religious or cultural. So while in the west there was a flowering os everything , from engineering to astronomy , in the East , things remained calm , Orientalisly calm.

Other great Turkish thinkers in pre- Ottoman and Ottoman times:  Yunus Emre,  Ziya Gokalp, Fuzuli, Ibni Sina - Avicenna, Namik Kemal. The Sufi philosopher/poet Rumi was neither Greek nor Ottoman. He was a Seljuk.

I am not returning to Rumi again. I believe the matter is closed.But as for Avicenna , lets see ( Born :980 in Kharmaithen ( near Bukhara ) Died : June 1037 in Hamadan Persia ) This is clearly again a non-Turkish scientist .By the way , can u tell me why u r trying to show as everything being , or having a connection with Turks ?? By the time Sina lived it was the begining of the Turkish expansion...Emre , a poet and a Sufi of the 13th century , Gokalp ( 1876-1924 ), a sociologist exploring the benefits of technological advancement as opposed to the Muslim way of life...Fuzuli , another poet ...Namik Kemal ( 1840-1888 ) ...another poet..My friend , if u think that culture is only poetry , then , i am sorry...culture is everything .From mathematics to poetry, to theater, to physics ,to philosophy ..everything.