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Phaistos Disc declared as fake by scholar

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  Quote Chilbudios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Phaistos Disc declared as fake by scholar
    Posted: 20-Sep-2008 at 17:37

I was not entirely persuaded by the criticism, but even for the doubts it raised I think the disk should be under further investigation. IMO this is how science works ...

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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Sep-2008 at 19:39
If they can cut chunks of the shroud of turin they can drill holes in the disc.  I agree it should be tested.  There are three results that can come of this, only one is bad.   It can be ruled a fake.  It can be decided that it is contemporary with the site it was found, or it can show to be from a much older era.  Perhaps from a previously unknown civilzation, who knows?
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  Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Sep-2008 at 06:38
Now, I really want the disc to be examined...I have J.T Hookers book here (Linear B: An introduction, page 41) and I read that back in 1935 an artifact from Arcalochori bearing 15 similar symbols to those on the disc was found. If it is a fake then the founder of the disc must have seen such unpublished symbols before creating the disc, while the next encounter with the same symbols came many years later.

If the Phaestos disc proves fake, then a number of artifacts found by French, Germans, English and Greek archaeologists may be declared fake as well, unless the theory above is proved, namely that the phaestos disc was created based on real hieroglyphs.


Edited by Flipper - 23-Sep-2008 at 20:11


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  Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Nov-2008 at 07:14
 
Originally posted by red clay

If, as it seems you have been there, you read the bs on Ancient Scripts homepage, it's a mystery" no other like it".  Scroll onto the next page where they have copied museum text and you'll see where several scholars have identified some symbols as being Linear script A.


Most of the script doesn't even vaguely resemble Linear A. As for any symbols that do resemble Linear A, Pernier was an archaeologist who would've seen Linear A inscriptions. So if he forged it, it would be expected that some of the symbols would bear a resemblance.

The field notes written by the original discoverers of this piece seem sound.


An archaeologist would know how to write field notes that seem sound. And actually,it does seem there have been technical problems with his field notes:

Doubting the viability of Pernier's report, Louis Godart (1990) resigns himself to admitting that archaeologically, the disc may be dated to anywhere in Middle or Late Minoan times

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phaistos_Disc

Eisenberg isn't the first to suggest it might be a hoax, either. Brian Haughton suspected it before that.

What could be at work here is a combination of intellectual bias and modern nationalism.


Have you got any particular motivation in mind here? That's a pretty tall accusation to be so unspecific about, even if you think Eisenberg is wrong.

I haven't seen anything ironclad about Dr. Eisenberg's work or anything to separate it from any other speculative work.


True, although, hoaxes are his area of specialty.

And considering modern political pressures I would have to question the good doctors motivations.


Again, I think it is unfair to make accusations like this without being a little more specific. I imagine that if Eisenberg were advancing an agenda, he'd be smart enough not to make a falsifiable accusation. Instead, he proposes a thermoluminescence  test which can date the artifact. His profession is uncovering hoaxed historical artifacts, so his reputation as being good at his job is on the line here. It seems a little off to me, that he would risk proposing a test if he wasn't fairly confident that it actually is a fake. Besides, what the heck kinda "nationalist motivation" could he have? He's American, Pernier is Italian ... where's the big nationalist historical rivalry between the US and Italy over Crete? It just seems like a really bizarre accusation, sorry. Maybe you could clarify.

The museum seems reluctant, which suggests that they're not entirely confident it's genuine either: if the test shows it's a fake, a priceless artifact in their collection will instantly become worthless junk.


Edited by edgewaters - 04-Nov-2008 at 07:32
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  Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Nov-2008 at 07:20
Originally posted by Nick Canuck

I do know that 'stamps' - to use the term in the broadest sense - have been used to decorate clay vessels since time immemorial. But using them to imprint meaningful symbols, hieroglyphs or letters I think is fairly rare, yes? Or am I mistaken about this?


AFAIK, the Phaistos disk is the only stamped clay inscription associated with the Minoans. But, stamping was used extensively in the Indus Valley - in fact, I think most Indus inscriptions in clay are stamped. So it's not without precedent, but it is a little odd. 
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  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Nov-2008 at 14:55
Or it is the work of a mad Minoan artist who is now laughing his a*s out in the underworld, thinking of the scientists and public who cannot figure his ramblings... even think of that?
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  Quote JDavis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Nov-2008 at 18:04

I can certainly appreciate the humor of your statement but must admit I find it exceedingly unlikely; especially in the context of where it was discovered.  

 

 

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  Quote Chilbudios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2008 at 17:03
The controversy continues. More on this topic can be found on sci.lang. Here's Eisenberg's reply to one of his informal critiques: http://sci.tech-archive.net/Archive/sci.lang/2008-07/msg00659.html . More can read in other theads (just zoom out to the monthly archives, the relevant threads can be recognized by their titles). The article he mentions there was already published: http://www.utexas.edu/research/pasp/publications/pdf/disk1.pdf
 
It seems there was a conference organized some three weeks ago on this issue: http://www.minervamagazine.com/images/phaistos.pdf
 
Here's the web site of someone defending the originality of the disk, based on some patterns he identified in the symbols: http://www.diskoftheworld.com/hoax.htm
 
And here's another balanced view on this controversy: http://glossographia.wordpress.com/2008/09/14/phaistos-1/
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  Quote rednaxela Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Mar-2017 at 10:47
The Minoans worshiped the moon! Structuring the text of the Phaistos disk shows that it was copied by the disc manufacturer, or with inscriptions made in the form of three bilateral axes, or with inscriptions on the very similar axes (labrys) from palace or cave sanctuaries. The text is a list of the dedications of the main rulers of Crete to the moon god. One of these axes, the largest, four-blade, could also be used as a kind of lunar calendar. The disc itself, the moon on the full moon, is a kind of portable version of these initiations. These initiations were made in order to receive the blessing of the god of the moon. It is possible that the number of dedications of each ruler depended on the number of buildings he had (palaces and villas). Hence, and one more destination of the Phaistos disk is a charm in the form of a snake coil (the inscriptions on the disk after all in a spiral) for these buildings and all living in them, tk. The Minoans believed that the serpent in the house brings God's blessing. The Phaistos disk was made before the largest earthquake in 1700 BC. Who destroyed the early palace. Since the disk, as a guard, did not take this palace from destruction, it was later "punished" - disguised as a layer of plaster in the main cell of the building's hiding place. For more details see the site: http://phaestos-disk.at.ua
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