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Is Israel about to strike at Iran?

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Peteratwar View Drop Down
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  Quote Peteratwar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Is Israel about to strike at Iran?
    Posted: 17-Jul-2008 at 15:21
Originally posted by Al Jassas

The Germans send accurate V2 missiles without GPS or other high tech equipment. Building a rocket is one thing but directing it is a very different story. One can get a high levels of accuracy without resourting to high tech equipment, those equipment can be later used to pinpoint the target and maximise the accuracy. It is all about engineering and if you have good engineers, then you can design indestructable rockets with potent accuracy.
 
AL-Jassas
 
The V2 rocket was highly inaccurate.
 
Nothing is indestructible
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  Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2008 at 15:28
For WWII technology, it was pretty darn accurate especially the final rockets that fell on London. Remember, Germany had no people on the ground to send coordinates, developement was the last thing on their mind, since the target was civilians, accuracy wasn't top priority. However, scientist did make an excelent job with the resources they had and quite succeeded in them.
 
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  Quote Peteratwar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2008 at 15:38
Hitting London from their launch sites would be a marvellous easy target to aim at
 
Hitting by design any smaller element inside London e.g. docks was not easy. So no they weren't particularly accurate.
 
However, I grant the technology wasn't available to make them more so.
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2008 at 18:42
From what i remember reading a couple of years ago the I-ranians have developed a system which can flip between Ruskie and Yanky sat systems and also incorporates gyroscopics.
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  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2008 at 19:21
Originally posted by rider

Bush would certainly love to leave another war for his successors to solve. 

But, wouldn't the truth be that Iran will have counterstruck before the Israeli missiles land? So, we'd have a nuclear war that would decimate the entire Near East... 



This is something I should keep up on but I agree with this but what is Israel to do? She is surrounded by enemies and it is basically survival but I really wish it could be resolved without violence. Sadly, with current events I do not see that. All the innocent people who will die on both sides is very bleak but it is not if it happens but when. Russia has treaties with Iran so I wonder if the Bear will be pulled or hooked in by obligation???

I saw something about the creation of a union between Europe, North Africa and the Middle East and they believe this could bring peace to the region. I am on a lap top that is a pain to bring things up on so if you want I can post the link for that article when I get to a better computer.
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2008 at 19:39
You mean what else is the USA to do (since both countries are intertwined)? In my opinion, simply nothing. Gee, what a novel idea. Israel does not bomb Iran. Iran does not bomb Israel. The US tries to figure out the oil crisis thru safer means and Isreal works with her neighbors for peace. All this propaganda about the world's evildoers is making me barf. Looking in the mirror is an apt solution.

Edited by Seko - 17-Jul-2008 at 19:40
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2008 at 19:44
Seko, they couldn't care less, they just want to thieve Iran's resources like they have Iraq's or just simply stop China and India from being powered by them.  they think they can do it militarily or through unending black propaganda, intimidation and threats but they can't do jack and they have just realised this.  The Yankees are setting up a diplomatic outpost in I-ran as we speak - they are just keeping up the facade to save face - then they will magically come up with some sort of concession they will claim to have coerced from Iran and try to make themselves look like the victors in all of this asinine BS.
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2008 at 19:48
You are right about that Zagros. There are so many real alternatives to war when you really think about it. Of political interest, I find it amusing that the Bush team is to have one diplomatic talk with one of the "Axis of Evil". Hmmm, wasn't Obama ridiculed for just that?
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2008 at 20:25
Well they have are having talks with NK ("AoE")...  So the neo-cons, republicans, axis of idiots or whatever they like to call themselves are a bunch of liars and hypocrites and frankly i would lose all hope in the people of America if they are gullible enough to elect any more mad-men to office.  And this is to mention nothing of the impending global economic collapse that they have covered up and even fuelled.
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  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2008 at 20:31
Originally posted by Seko

You mean what else is the USA to do (since both countries are intertwined)? In my opinion, simply nothing. Gee, what a novel idea. Israel does not bomb Iran. Iran does not bomb Israel. The US tries to figure out the oil crisis thru safer means and Isreal works with her neighbors for peace. All this propaganda about the world's evildoers is making me barf. Looking in the mirror is an apt solution.


You are correct and yes our country is intertwined. But with threats from Iran's President don't you think it makes Israel a little paranoid. I do not want this to happen because, aside from the politicians, there are innocent people on both sides. I do believe in Israel's right to exist, although, they are far from Angels. The more I learn about the globalist agenda the more I realize that evil exists on both sides. Such a war would not only start WWIII but the radiation would impact Greece and Turkey. But, what if Iran struck first???

From the BBC - propaganda - I doubt it!
Iran leader defends Israel remark

Protesters in Tehran burned Israeli flags
Iran's president has defended his widely criticised call for Israel to be "wiped off the map".


Here is the title of that video which could offer a solution or they hope. (yahoo or google it)

43 Nations, 800,000 Million Inhabitants Form “Historic” Mediterranean Union

The way things are happening over there one oould almost believe in the Devil who is master minding the whole scenario-

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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2008 at 20:57
Actually, Ahmadinejad recently stated, as reported by Iran's version of the BBC (PressTV), he has never called for the destruction of Israel [by physical means], he has only described its demise in a USSR like fashion which is actually not all that inconceivable in the future.  I would believe an iranian source over what that country's president says over any BBC, CNN or other you quote when it comes to what has and hasn't been PUBLICLY stated by Iranian politicians.

Ahmadinejad does not control iran's armed forces, he is actually pretty impotent when it comes to foreign and military affairs.   I find it hysterical how the impotence of Iran's President was so overly emphasised when it had an outreaching and "peaceloving" president and now it is the other way around. 

So a little simple research or even recall wouldn't go amiss for the likes of some.  :)


Edited by Zagros - 17-Jul-2008 at 21:05
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2008 at 21:08
PS: the hostility against Israel (flag burning - omg)  in recent days is pretty understandable given the scale of military threats against Iran by Israel over the last two weeks.
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jul-2008 at 03:02
Originally posted by Leo

GPS can be used to overcome drift it seems. civilian GPS is the golden question, and in combination with what Iran has. The question the US and Israel would want to know;  do they have laser Gyro's (RLG's), are they any good.

The accuracy of the Gyro isn't the problem, its the time step. Gyroscopes measure linear acceleration and angular velocity. For positioning its linear acceleration we are concerned about. From basic physics we know that acceleration integrated twice with respect to time gives us displacement. So theoretically if we know the acceleration, starting velocity and position we can always figure out where we are. However that only works if our results are continuous - which they aren't.
If we clock the gyroscope and integrating circuits at 50MHz, we have a time step of 20ns. That is, every 20ns we can take a measurement of the acceleration. Inbetween these samples we have no measurement, and have no idea what the acceleration is. We only know it once every time step. Any changes in acceleration between time steps are unmeasured, and cause errors.
The smaller your time step, the more accurate the result, but unless you can get the timestep to 0, you will always accumulate errors over time.
This also means the faster your acceleration is changing, the bigger your error, hence why it is harder to navigate a missile than a model helicopter.

GPS can be used to correct for these errors to an extent. We can use the gyros to measure inbetween GPS results. GPS for 'macro' positioning, gyros for 'micro' positioning. However, if the GPS gives a reading 10m away from where the gyros + last GPS reading should indicate, which one do we take to be true? You have to take the GPS, because GPS errors unlike gyro errors aren't cumulative.
why is that stuff public.

All robots need this type of navigation, not just missiles. Alot of university research goes into this field too. I was (attempting) to use a gyro to navigate a small autononomous racer just last semester. Chance are militaries do have alot of information that the public doesn't, but not surprisingly I don't know what it is
Originally posted by Al Jassas

The Germans send accurate V2 missiles without GPS or other high tech equipment.

It'd be pretty hard to miss London. They couldn't hit the building they wanted in London.
Originally posted by Zagros

From what i remember reading a couple of years ago the I-ranians have developed a system which can flip between Ruskie and Yanky sat systems and also incorporates gyroscopics.

GLONASS has only 13 working satellites, and is operational only 56% of the time. Even when it was fully operational it was only accurate to 70m. I'd be seriously freaked out if anyone uses it to guide a missile with. It might hit anything
Originally posted by eaglecap


43 Nations, 800,000 Million Inhabitants Form “Historic” Mediterranean Union

The EU are worried about letting Turkey in, the chances they'll unite with Algeria are as close to 0 as freezing point.
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  Quote Bankotsu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jul-2008 at 08:45

PLAIN FACTS ABOUT IRAN’S MILITARY

http://www.ericmargolis.com/archives/2008/07/plain

US sends senior diplomat to nuclear talks with Iran
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/jul2008/

Flexibility points to Iran breakthrough
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Mid


Edited by Bankotsu - 18-Jul-2008 at 12:43
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  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jul-2008 at 20:38
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

Originally posted by Cryptic


Nobody knows for sure.  The total population of the Kingdom and the number of actual  Saudi Citizens are state secrets.

A figure so secretive it is published by the Saudi government in order to keep those gharbiyya from knowing the truth!
About 23 million.
Including foriegners 28,161,417 in July 2008
 
Just because Saudi Arabia publishes figures does not mean that the published figures are accurate. The "official" Saudi census figures for past years evidently contain more than a few demographic uhmm... "improbabilities".
 


Edited by Cryptic - 18-Jul-2008 at 20:43
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  Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jul-2008 at 21:11
Whoa there Cryptic and Omar, Saudi Arabia keeps a census every 10 years (starting from 1992) and the last one was in 2003. The result was that there were 23 million people living in the country and 16 million of them were Saudi. A further 2 million illegals exist making the total number. Here is a link to the governments planning ministry:
 
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  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2008 at 04:49
Al Jassas,
 
There are many sources which conclude that the offical figures are suspect. Though I am no demographer, the 7 million net gain in Saudi citizens between 2003 and 2008 (Your and Omar's references) seems very improbable.  This is especially so considering that it is  difficult to obtain Saudi citizenship through naturalization etc.


Edited by Cryptic - 19-Jul-2008 at 04:54
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  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2008 at 05:53
Originally posted by eaglecap


You are correct and yes our country is intertwined. But with threats from Iran's President don't you think it makes Israel a little paranoid.
who is making the threats?

my bolding

Defence Minister Ehud Barak in July 2008
Defence Minister Ehud Barak told Israeli public radio Iran represented a challenge for the whole world.

"Israel is the strongest country in the region and we have already shown in the past that we are not afraid of acting when our vital interests are threatened," he said.

www.news.com.au/


Transport Minister Shaul Mofaz June 2008
"If Iran continues with its program for developing nuclear weapons, we will attack it. The sanctions are ineffective," Transport Minister Shaul Mofaz told the mass-circulation Yedioth Ahronoth newspaper.

"Attacking Iran, in order to stop its nuclear plans, will be unavoidable," said the former army chief who has also been defense minister.

Reuters

National Infrastructure Minister Benjamin Ben-Eliezer April 2008
"An Iranian attack against Israel would trigger a tough reaction that would lead to the destruction of the Iranian nation," National Infrastructure Minister Benjamin Ben-Eliezer said in remarks of rare virulence.

"Iranians are aware of our strength but continue to provoke us by arming their Syrian allies and Hezbollah," he said during a meeting at his ministry.

ABC

plaese read some of the articles in counterpunch for some balance

www.counterpunch.com/hallinan07162008.html


Neither country was capable of defending itself,  but Iran is determined to at least try to exact a price on those who seek its subjugation.  For this legitimate objective it requires some means of fighting back, and missiles are its answer. You might not agree that missiles, nuclear or otherwise, are a good thing  – and I certainly don't – but you have to see the Iranians’ point.

The egregious Rice, always ready to throw fuel on flickering flames of ill feeling, declared  “I don't think the Iranians are too confused . . .  about the capabilities and power of the United States.  In the Gulf area, the United States has enhanced its security capacity, its security presence and we are working closely with all our allies . . .   [to]  make it more difficult for Iran to threaten, be bellicose and say terrible things.”  You've got to laugh about that one :   “Say terrible things” ?   Presumably the bellicose Israeli Generals Barak and Mofaz have a US license to say terrible things, but Iran is supposed to keep its collective mouth shut when menaced by a bunch of bizarre fanatics only slightly less repugnant than Teheran’s mullahs.

It is not understood by Israel and the US why a nation they attack should want to conduct such resistance as it might be able to offer.  Why, exactly,  should Iran do nothing while being blasted by Israeli deep penetration bombs and who knows what other US-supplied munitions?  (And remember the 100,000 unexploded US cluster bombs that killed so many children during and after Israel’s invasion of Lebanon two years ago.)

The mullahs in Tehran are a bunch of extremely unpleasant bigots, but it is unreasonable, to say the least,  to expect them to sit there wringing their collective hands while the bombs thunder down.   What country in the world,  if it possessed some means of retaliation,  could possibly allow blatant aggression to go unheeded?  Would Israel?  Would the US?  Of course not.  But what they have to remember is that what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.  And if they attack Iran the results could be disastrous.


www.counterpunch.com/cloughley07152008.html

 
Originally posted by eaglecap

But, what if Iran struck first???
They have said all along they will not strike first something that seems to get glossed over in our media. All they're huff and puff is about a counter strike, and punishment for any aggression. They aren't foolish to start a damaging fight, but they're not going top look weak and take it laying down. They need to assure their own population they are strong to defend against any bullying and threats. Otherwise any doubt about this strength, inferring the regimes weakness, would damage them politically. The Iranian position is totally understandable and predictable.

Originally posted by eaglecap

From the BBC - propaganda - I doubt it!
Sometimes you see it over other stories bro..

Try that UK sailors seized by iran story, some of us knew they (as well as other media) were wrong then and only the Times admitted it was wrong this year.

 A more recent example is the fear mongering, unproven, speculative and most probably wrong (exaggerated) ranges applied to the shahab3. As far as we can tell, there are two version, and that only one of these with the 500kg head (half size) could comfortably hit Israel. If you read our conversations over these weapon you will notice it isn't as big a deal as what the Israeli's (or Tehran) are going on about. Israel is just worried about a time in the future when they are nuked up. All that tough talk they say now, 'we can destroy' or 'act' or whatever would be answered in kind. Sux when your not the only one with nukes, they may need to change that aggressive attitude.





Edited by Leonidas - 19-Jul-2008 at 06:31
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2008 at 07:25
Originally posted by Cryptic

There are many sources which conclude that the offical figures are suspect. Though I am no demographer, the 7 million net gain in Saudi citizens between 2003 and 2008 (Your and Omar's references) seems very improbable.  This is especially so considering that it is  difficult to obtain Saudi citizenship through naturalization etc.

My source was the CIA world factbook.
Plus your link is broken. So I still want to know on what basis you think the Saudi census is inaccurate. Compared to a disorganised overpopulated country such as India, I'd have thought that the Saudi census would one of the most reliable in the world.
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