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Fantasy Duel #3--German Ritter vs. Ottoman Sipahis

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Poll Question: Armored Cavalry from traditions old & new--who wins?
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Landsknecht_Doppelsoldner View Drop Down
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  Quote Landsknecht_Doppelsoldner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Fantasy Duel #3--German Ritter vs. Ottoman Sipahis
    Posted: 13-Mar-2005 at 19:22
This one could be interesting...
"Who despises me and my praiseworthy craft,

I'll hit on the head that it resounds in his heart."


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  Quote white dragon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Mar-2005 at 21:48
the german will wait for the turk to get fairly close and then, when he can't possibly miss, will shot the turk
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  Quote aknc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2005 at 01:53

the sipahi also posess bows and some are armoured

 

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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2005 at 02:20
the Sipahi has both ranged and melee power, I bet on him.
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  Quote Landsknecht_Doppelsoldner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2005 at 05:15
The ritter likewise carries a cut-and-thrust sword (reitschwert), so it could go either way...
"Who despises me and my praiseworthy craft,

I'll hit on the head that it resounds in his heart."


--Augustin Staidt, of the Federfechter (German fencing guild)
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  Quote Landsknecht_Doppelsoldner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2005 at 05:16
Sorry for using the plural spelling of sipahi, btw...
"Who despises me and my praiseworthy craft,

I'll hit on the head that it resounds in his heart."


--Augustin Staidt, of the Federfechter (German fencing guild)
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  Quote aknc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2005 at 09:33

Originally posted by Landsknecht_Doppelsoldner

The ritter likewise carries a cut-and-thrust sword (reitschwert), so it could go either way...

the sipahi is probably better in hand to hand combat.

"I am the scourage of god appointed to chastise you,since no one knows the remedy for your iniquity exept me.You are wicked,but I am more wicked than you,so be silent!"
              
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  Quote Landsknecht_Doppelsoldner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2005 at 09:37
Originally posted by aknc

Originally posted by Landsknecht_Doppelsoldner

The ritter likewise carries a cut-and-thrust sword (reitschwert), so it could go either way...

the sipahi is probably better in hand to hand combat.

Given the early sipahi view towards firearms, I suppose that could be argued--certainly, Spanish lancers were known for trouncing ritters from time to time.

But it's still up in the air...

"Who despises me and my praiseworthy craft,

I'll hit on the head that it resounds in his heart."


--Augustin Staidt, of the Federfechter (German fencing guild)
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  Quote aknc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2005 at 09:43
Originally posted by Landsknecht_Doppelsoldner

Originally posted by aknc

Originally posted by Landsknecht_Doppelsoldner

The ritter likewise carries a cut-and-thrust sword (reitschwert), so it could go either way...

the sipahi is probably better in hand to hand combat.

Given the early sipahi view towards firearms, I suppose that could be argued--certainly, Spanish lancers were known for trouncing ritters from time to time.

But it's still up in the air...

you could be right.
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2005 at 10:26
Sepahis were in fact spearmen (Se=Three & Pa=Foot).
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  Quote aknc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2005 at 12:01

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Sepahis were in fact spearmen (Se=Three & Pa=Foot).

no,they were cavalarymen armed with bows,swords and spears.

"I am the scourage of god appointed to chastise you,since no one knows the remedy for your iniquity exept me.You are wicked,but I am more wicked than you,so be silent!"
              
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2005 at 13:04
so they should be Sabris or Savaris (Sab/Asb=Horse & bri=Rider) not Sepahis.
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  Quote aknc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2005 at 13:35

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

so they should be Sabris or Savaris (Sab/Asb=Horse & bri=Rider) not Sepahis.

What language is this?Sipahis were Turkish soldiers

"I am the scourage of god appointed to chastise you,since no one knows the remedy for your iniquity exept me.You are wicked,but I am more wicked than you,so be silent!"
              
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2005 at 13:44

What language is this?

Persian

Sipahis were Turkish soldiers

Does it mean something else in Turkish?

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  Quote aknc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2005 at 13:46
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

What language is this?

Persian

Sipahis were Turkish soldiers

Does it mean something else in Turkish?

No,it means nothing in Turkish.Sorry my mistake,I thought the name sipahi was (old)Turkish

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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2005 at 13:55

The German poet Ludwig Uhland (1787-1862) has answered the question about the outcome of an encounter between a German knight and a Turkish rider in a very famous poem:


Da wallt dem Deutschen auch sein Blut,
er trifft des Trken Pferd so gut,
er haut ihm ab mit einem Streich
die beiden Vorderf' zugleich.
Als er das Tier zu Fall gebracht,
da fat er erst sein Schwert mit Macht,
er schwingt es auf des Reiters Kopf,
haut durch bis auf den Sattelknopf,
haut auch den Sattel noch zu Stcken
und tief noch in des Pferdes Rcken;
zur Rechten sieht man wie zur Linken,
einen halben Trken heruntersinken.

Roughly translated:

The German got really upset, and with one stroke he cuts off the two front legs of the Turks horse. As the horse goes down, he takes his sword and swings it down on the Turks head and cuts right through him down to the saddle, and one can see the two halfs of the Turk going down to left and to the right.


[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg">
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  Quote aknc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2005 at 14:04

Originally posted by Komnenos


The German poet Ludwig Uhland (1787-1862) has answered the question about the outcome of an encounter between a German knight and a Turkish rider in a very famous poem:


Da wallt dem Deutschen auch sein Blut,
er trifft des Trken Pferd so gut,
er haut ihm ab mit einem Streich
die beiden Vorderf' zugleich.
Als er das Tier zu Fall gebracht,
da fat er erst sein Schwert mit Macht,
er schwingt es auf des Reiters Kopf,
haut durch bis auf den Sattelknopf,
haut auch den Sattel noch zu Stcken
und tief noch in des Pferdes Rcken;
zur Rechten sieht man wie zur Linken,
einen halben Trken heruntersinken.

Roughly translated:

The German got really upset, and with one stroke he cuts off the two front legs of the Turks horse. As the horse goes down, he takes his sword and swings it down on the Turks head and cuts right through him down to the saddle, and one can see the two halfs of the Turk going down to left and to the right.


I would like to point out the fact that it was a german that wrote the poem.I would also like to ask what was the Turk doing when the german struck his horse?



Edited by aknc
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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2005 at 14:15
Originally posted by aknc

I would like to point out the fact that it was a german that wrote the poem.I would also like to ask what was the Turk doing when the germanstruck his horse?



In the two previous lines it was mentioned that the Turkish rider attacked the knight with a scimitar, but it doesn't say anything about what he Turk did to defend himself.
It's a poem, not the original comment of some documentary movie. Don't take it too serious!
[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg">
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2005 at 15:23

According to historian Ian Heath Sipahi is derived from the word timar sipahiler an alternate word for the holder (timariot) of the feudal fief (timar) which supplied the cavalry called 'sipahis'

 

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  Quote aknc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2005 at 15:31
Originally posted by Captain_Gars

According to historian Ian Heath Sipahi is derived from the word timar sipahiler an alternate word for the holder (timariot) of the feudal fief (timar) which supplied the cavalry called 'sipahis'

 

true

"I am the scourage of god appointed to chastise you,since no one knows the remedy for your iniquity exept me.You are wicked,but I am more wicked than you,so be silent!"
              
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