louis vuitton handbags online casque beats maizitang tiffany jewelry cheap louis vuitton taschen online shop louis vuitton cheap handbags
Odysseus' return from Trojan War dated - History Forum ~ All Empires
 

Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Odysseus' return from Trojan War dated

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Yiannis View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar

Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2329
  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Odysseus' return from Trojan War dated
    Posted: 24-Jun-2008 at 12:13
Seems that two scientists, Magnasco from NY and Baikouzis from the Uni. of Buenos Aires (name seems greek) have made calculations, based on the astronomical data and eclipses mention in the Odyssey and have come to the conclusion that Odysseus return home on April 16, 1178 B.C.
More info here:
 
 
 
 
 
The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics

Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
Back to Top
Flipper View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 23-Apr-2006
Location: Flipper HQ
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1813
  Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2008 at 16:21
The Acheans & co marched against Troy on 1218BC according to the Parian Mable stele. If we take into consideration how long the war was, Odysseus had a very long journey back...


Så nu tar jag fram (k)niven va!
Back to Top
Yiannis View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar

Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2329
  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2008 at 17:03
Well, there's no evidence that the parian stele is correct. Archaeological evidence from Troy that the time of its destruction coincides with the date these scientists present.
The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics

Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
Back to Top
ulrich von hutten View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
Court Jester

Joined: 01-Nov-2005
Location: Germany
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3646
  Quote ulrich von hutten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2008 at 18:23
And which day of the week and what time ?
 
follwing dialog happened:
 
Odysseus: Hey, my lovely sweethart. I'm back. A bit late, but i'm back. Lovely April, isn't it?
 
Penelope: Aaah, my husband. Going out to have good time with his comrades. Not a single postcard, not a simple call, nothing. And now you are back, like nothing ever happened.
(mocking his husband) sweethart, i'm back. How nice, i'm doing the laundry, friday morning, and my husband is coming home, killing some men, the dog is getting crazy, and want's to have sex. come on, f**k off, mister Ody.
 
Ody: Pardon, btw, kind regards from the Trojans, i mean the former Trojans..., Polyphem, Circe and all the others....
 
Penelope: My husband had a nice time and i was sitting here on this desert island, please, spare me with your fairy tales. Go in and light the fire.....
 
And this all happened a April, 16th  1178 b.C. Friday noon 11.43 am ....


Edited by ulrich von hutten - 24-Jun-2008 at 18:38

Back to Top
Tyranos View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 01-Oct-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 247
  Quote Tyranos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2008 at 19:01
Achaeans buried their dead, so they should find his body by now.
Back to Top
Aster Thrax Eupator View Drop Down
Suspended
Suspended

Suspended

Joined: 18-Jul-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1934
  Quote Aster Thrax Eupator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2008 at 20:43
Achaeans buried their dead, so they should find his body by now.
 
True, and if we regard the practices of those around the area such as the "Lukka" (Lyicans of the Hittite period) and many of the states of the Ionian seaboard that were Hurrian in origin, we can see that they buried their dead (actually in jars methinks) but the problem is that the Trojan war was looked upon from a classical perspective for hundreds of years (notice how the traditional depiction of the war shows them all with Torios and Corinthian Helmets rather than Mycenean boars tusks helmets and Hittite long hair?) and since the classical Greeks mainly cremated their dead, the search for such bodies will only have begun now. Don't forget that Troy itself was only unearthed at the end of the 19th century, and the same with Boghazkoy/Hattusas and Megaroi all around Pre-Dorian invasion Greece. Therefore, it simply wouldn't have occured to archeologists and historians before these excavations to search for buried bodies - they viewed the Trojan war from a strangely Classical perspective!
Back to Top
xristar View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 05-Nov-2005
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1029
  Quote xristar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2008 at 21:06
I thought the Myceneans tended to burn their dead, while the dorians to bury them in box shaped graves.
I'm not really an expert on this, but I know that in the archaeological museum of Athens  (remember Athens was also not a dorian city) there are plenty of  burial stones. Unless something eludes me (and these graves actually contained urns), classical greeks buried their dead.
On the other hand, I'm not expert on Myceneans either (which means I'm possibly wrong), but in the Iliad we pretty clearly see that the dead (Patroklos comes to me mind) were burned. Of course we also have the tombs-like-hills in Mycenenae, and I'm now confused...Clown

Defeat allows no explanation
Victory needs none.
It insults the dead when you treat life carelessly.
Back to Top
Vorian View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 06-Dec-2007
Location: Greece/Hellas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 566
  Quote Vorian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2008 at 22:49
On the other hand, I'm not expert on Myceneans either (which means I'm possibly wrong), but in the Iliad we pretty clearly see that the dead (Patroklos comes to me mind) were burned. Of course we also have the tombs-like-hills in Mycenenae, and I'm now confused...Clown


It's simple really. Homer, or the series of unnamed poets that made Iliad lived a few centuries after the Trojan war, when Dorian influence had spread in all Greeks and thus described the burials with what they knew. Same goes with warfare, phalanx is sometimes mentioned even though it was developed much later.
Back to Top
Aster Thrax Eupator View Drop Down
Suspended
Suspended

Suspended

Joined: 18-Jul-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1934
  Quote Aster Thrax Eupator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jun-2008 at 01:07
Moreover, I think that even in the classical period and Roman period, some legionaries and Roman colonies based in the east, as well as the eastern Greeks such as the Lycians and "pseudo-hittites" such as the Lydians and Cimmeranians buried their dead with elaborate rituals. It really is very confusing. Notable examples include the royal necropolis of Sidon and Roman mummies in Ptolemaic Egypt, whilst Romans only a few centuries before (such as the father of Tiberius Sempronius Gracchus) burnt their dead. We know that even in the principate this occured, because as Vorian states, writers speak about what they know - Virgil describes the battles in books 10-12 of the Aeneid between the Etruscans, Pallentines and Trojans with the Rutilians and Latins with Roman military tactics and equipment. Moreover, he also describes funeral pyres rather than mounds for the dead. However, there appears to be a crossover in Homer's illiad because I recall that at the funeral of Patroculus, they burn his body and then seal the bones in a casket inside a death-mound. It seems to be half and half from that perspective. It's also similar in the Aeneid - when they find the body of Misenus in book 6, they simply pile earth over him so that the Sibyl can let Aeneas go into the underworld and speak to his father in the Elysian fields, but also when Aeneas finds the dead body of Polydores in book 3 in Thrace (the whole bloody bush thingy if anyone remembers that), they do the exact opposite - they just burn everything. It seems that both burning and burial could have been part of the same ritual.
 
...Sorry I just realised that I was trolling.
Back to Top
YusakuJon3 View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 04-Aug-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 223
  Quote YusakuJon3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jun-2008 at 09:23
   One thing to consider is that the poets told of the Trojan War lasting 10 years.  Perhaps that stele referred to the onset of hostilities between the Mycenaean Greeks and the city of Troy and the date being set for Odysseus's return was from the journey after 10 years' absence while fighting in the final phases of that long war.  This wouldn't surprise me if more recent history illustrates a number of conflicts (such as the "Hundred Years' War" between England and France) where periods of truces interrupted years-long campaigns until one side or the other finally met defeat after a lengthy siege or just gave up due to exhaustion.
"There you go again!"

-- President Ronald W. Reagan (directed towards reporters at a White House press conference, mid-1980s)
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.125 seconds.