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Topic ClosedMagnificent article about ancient Macedonia

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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Magnificent article about ancient Macedonia
    Posted: 19-Jun-2008 at 13:25
Originally posted by Flipper

Originally posted by Petro Invictus

Originally posted by Byzantine Emperor

Petro, what are you doing?  It looks like since everyone has stopped arguing with you about this stuff for the moment you have resorted to arguing with yourself! LOL
 
Isn't there anything else under the sun that you are interested in and that you can discuss with some shred of objectivity without tying Macedonia into it somehow?
 


Isn't there anything else under the blue sky, regarding Macedonia, that you are interested in, which you can discuss with me rather than the "Greekness" of it?

I believe the article we are discussing here is about Macedonia.



Who said Byzantine Emperor is Greek? Or am i badly mistaken?


Exactly? Who said that? Are trying to put words in my moth now Flipper! What I was doing is called "mirroring" in debates, whereby I tell one (int his case Byzantine Emperor) what I am hearing you say, so you can correct any misperceptions.

Your "technique" of putting words in my mouth is even worse than "pivoting"! It is called "manipulative" summing up, and it is totally wrong in my case...




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2008 at 13:25
Are you still going on a personal level Petro?
Wait until tonight...Until then look at your post and see if there's anything you can correct before it can be used against you Wink


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2008 at 13:35
Good God Flipper, it seems that actually you don't have anything better to do!
 
For example you could watch paint dry, far more interesting... 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2008 at 15:12
Originally posted by Flipper

Are you still going on a personal level Petro?
Wait until tonight...Until then look at your post and see if there's anything you can correct before it can be used against you Wink


This-post-of-yours-made-no-sense-at-all,-and-I-think-you-are-an-idiot,-but-I-am-so-not-going-to-drop-down-to-your-level-and-admit-it-to-your-face

I am so glad to be able to drive your libido insane to that extend that you take erotic pleasure in the scavenging you are so eager to indulge in. It is interesting to notice... take care! Wink
 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2008 at 15:57
Someone is looking for trouble.. It is obvious you're provoking Petro and i'm not gonna respond to such provocations.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2008 at 16:03
Originally posted by Petro Invictus

Isn't there anything else under the blue sky, regarding Macedonia, that you are interested in, which you can discuss with me rather than the "Greekness" of it?

I believe the article we are discussing here is about Macedonia.
 
What are you talking about?  I never did argue with you about "Greekness" or anything to do with Macedonia, really.  I asked you to clarify your terminology, which you never did by the way.
 
Also, my question as to whether or not you were interested in anything else besides Macedonia and Slavs was not in the context of this thread but in general.  It is all we have seen you post and argue over here at AE.  Oh well, I was trying politely to point out that you may have been considered one-sided or "centric" during yout tenure at All Empires.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2008 at 18:21
Originally posted by Petro Inviticus


"He lived way after Alexander! And by that time he might have assumed what the language was that the Macedonians spoke. However, in this fragment, the implication of "a man whose speech was Macedonian" , might mean only one thing, that the man spoke Macedonian, a language that was distinct from the one Eumenes was using."


By that quote you confirm that: Ancient Macedonians spoke a language which they abandoned before Arrian.

Now, you posted the link to Elias K. website which analyzes briefly what i've been saying so far. No matter how you try to twist and turn it, readers of this thread will prefer to read an academic directly, rather than reading 238743287 posts that you and I did. So let them read it and let them decide. Am I saying something that you can't grasp here?

Originally posted by Petro Inviticus


First of all it is Petro not Petrus! Thanks for the reminder, though I must reject the irony. The route I have taken is a comparative study, by taking an objective stand, and actually reading people's opinions extensively and thoroughly, unlike you dear, whose lavish exposure merely poses as an attempt to conceal the obvious inability to get away from the frame that has shaped your views in a most rigid and dogmatic manner, you might call orthodoxy. The "patrius sermo" case is a well known example of how linguistic conformity can attain to creating confusion rather than dealing with it.


It was not intentional sorry. Besides, in latin it would be correct (jk to calm down the tention)...

The reason why i posted that latin text is the following: (see it here as well: http://www.history.ccsu.edu/elias/AlexandrosPatrius.htm)

Originally posted by Curtius


Original text:
Plerique adsunt, quos facilius quae dicam, percepturos arbitror, si eadem lingua fuero usus qua tu, egisti, non ob aliud, credo, quam ut oratio tua intellegi, posset a pluribus.

Translation:
Apart Macedonians, there are many people around who will understand me MORE EASILY, if I speak in the language you have spoken for the same reason.


I don't need to comment anymore on that...


Originally posted by Petro Inviticus


More over we are talking about Macedonians in relation to Greeks. I don't think Plutarch used the term "Greek" though, or did he? Enlighten me! He might as well have used the term Danaans, or Grecians for that sake , that would have sounded more plausible to me.


http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/p/plutarch/lives/
http://www.bostonleadershipbuilders.com/plutarch/index.htm

Originally posted by Petro Inviticus


Again someone living way after Alexander. Can you find any more plausible evidence to the theory you are posing, which is that the ancient Macedonians spoke a Greek "phone"?


Ofcourse...Watch this:

SEG 49:793

Άντίγραφον φὠνῆς σ̣όματος Νίκης· Τίτος Λύκου Σκυδραίου ἐπρίατο παρ’ Ἀμφοτερᾶς τοῦ ἀνδρὸς Σκυδραίας μετὰ κυρίου Ἱππίο Σκυδραίου πεδίον ὀνόματι Νίκην, ὡς μηνῶν δύο, φωνῇ μακεδονικήν, τιμῆς ἀργυρίου͵ε· καὶ ἄν τις κυριώτερος φανῇ, τοῦ προγεγραμένου κορασίου ἢ μέρους τινός, τότε τὴν τιμὴν διπλῆν ἐπηρώτησεν Τίτορ Λύκου Σκυδεραίου ἐγένετο ἐν Σκύδρας· τὸ πρόστιμον σὺν πεδίο ὀ̣νόματι Ἀρτέμι, ε ιλατλικω· μάρτυρες Αὐρήλιος Λύκος, Αὐρήλιος Κάλλης· ἐγένετο ἀντίγραφον φὠνῆς· εὐτύχε.

It is a donation to some god/godness expressed as a legal act.

It starts with "Άντίγραφον φὠνῆς" of a child called Nike. Antigraphon (αντίγραφο) means "copy" and "φωνής" means "of voice". Some lines below when the the parents and age of the girl are mentioned, we read "φωνῇ μακεδονικήν".

This is exactly what i was talking about when i said that the standardized writting does not produce a dialect, likewise all modern european writting systems. You can't guess guess for example from a swedish text that goes like "Det var en trevlig båtresa", that the author might be a southern swede with heavy R-accent and different Å-accent, unless you know him.

In this passage, the text starts with "copy of the voice of Nikes body". As you know they did not have recorders back then...So what we know is that the phone is Macedonian, but we don't know how the text is pronounced.

The only word that troubles me inside this Koine text is "ιλατλικω". That is not standard Greek for sure. What I can tell is that is the Macedonian equivalent of the attic verb "λαλώ" in past perfect tense of "ιλαλισω". In this text "ιλάλισω" drops s and puts k and between a and l, t is placed, a phenomenon seen in wovels of common words between Greek and Phrygian (eg. Gk κεκτημένο (vested) opposed to Phr. Τετικμένο).



As for the Linear B parts I won't dissagree except from the fact it is not slavic. Linear scripts were used in Greece and the eastern mediteranian. Anatolians used it (where it probably came from) as well as the Canaanites. There are decipherments of Linear A in Greek that have been characterized as good attempts but since they can't be prooved correct or false, they are not labeled as "official" decipherments. Therefore, I do not take possition to any favour and in my view i tend to lean to the anatolian origin of those syllabic systems. However, no matter how hard you try, the Linear B texts are so far Greek language, not matter if the writing system was used for proto-Luwian (for example, that is what i believe).

Alexander which you incorrectly label as Macedonian, has another origin. Alexander of Corinth ruled around 816–791 BC. Alaksandu was also a ruler of the Hittites in Anatolia, a name that suggest that eather the name was common between greeks and anatolians or that he was Alexander of Ilion, a greek who managed to become a local ruler.

Now, look how the name appears in Sanskrit (inscriptions of Asoka) as well and look how King Antiochos is called by the Indians [King of the Yavanas].



Now, the indians eather got to know from the Macedonians that they are Yavan OR that they recognised their speech as such.


Originally posted by Petro Inviticus


I think it was Maria Gimbutas we were discussing here. She mentioned Hummond in the text you provided as an image. Have you read it at all?Smile


Gimbutas suggest the book written by Hammond and makes a summary of it. This is what she says that you excluded...

Originally posted by Maria Gimbutas


In this respect Hammond's book throws considerable light on the problem of the origin of the Macedones and other tribes which belong to the earliest genealogy of the Greek race - Namely the Ionians, Aeolians, Dorians.


So, they are not excluded, they are grouped amongst the earliest geneology of the Greeks which is divided into that three parts.

Now, have a look on what Hammond says with his own words...The first is Hammonds and the second & third is Ian Worthington quoting Hammonds work. It covers everything we've been talking about.








Originally posted by Petro Inviticus


However, I do not agree with Maria completely. I prefer Martin Bernal's Black Athena theory. It sounds more plausible. North, or south, the Dorian stock were INVADERS. You must agree to this.


You can prefer whatever you want and I don't have to agree as you say.

The question is simple Petro. Do you really believe Greeks are Africans? Yes of no? I don't want any elaboration, i just want an answer of 2 or 3 letters. Can you do that?

Originally posted by Petro Inviticus


For in the days of king Deucalion1 IT (the Dorian) INHABITED the land of Phthia, THEN the country called Histiaean, under Ossa and Olympus, in the time of Dorus son of Hellen; DRIVEN from this Histiaean country by the Cadmeans, IT SETTLED about Pindus IN THE TERRITORY CALLED MACEDONIAN; FROM THERE again IT MIGRATED to Dryopia, and AT LAST CAME from Dryopia into the Peloponnese, where IT TOOK the name of Dorian.2"

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0126&layout=&loc=1.+56.+3

So the Dorian were a pack of invaders who wandered often and FAR: from Phthia, to Histiaean land, then driven away by the Cadmeans it settled in Macedonia FOR A SHORT WHILE, to be chased away to Dropya and at last settle down in the Peloponnese and become DORIAN!!!


You don't remember this but that translation is wrong and i had pointed out that to you months ago.

The original text in ancient greek is available here: http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/hh/hh1050.htm

ἐπὶ μὲν γὰρ Δευκαλίωνος βασιλέος οἴκεε γῆν τὴν Φθιῶτιν, ἐπὶ δὲ Δώρου τοῦ Ἕλληνος τὴν ὑπὸ τὴν Ὄσσαν τε καὶ τὸν Ὄλυμπον χώρην, καλεομένην δὲ Ἱστιαιῶτιν· ἐκ δὲ τῆς Ἱστιαιώτιδος ὡς ἐξανέστη ὑπὸ Καδμείων, οἴκεε ἐν Πίνδῳ Μακεδνὸν καλεόμενον· ἐνθεῦτεν δὲ αὖτις ἐς τὴν Δρυοπίδα μετέβη καὶ ἐκ τῆς Δρυοπίδος οὕτω ἐς Πελοπόννησον ἐλθὸν Δωρικὸν ἐκλήθη
for in the reign of Deucalion this race dwelt in Pthiotis, and in the time of Doros the son of Hellen in the land lying below Ossa and Olympos, which is called Histiaiotis; and when it was driven from Histiaiotis by the sons of Cadmos, it dwelt in Pindos and was called Makednian; and thence it moved afterwards to Dryopis, and from Dryopis it came finally to Peloponnesus, and began to be called Dorian
It is not the area but the race that called Makedonian. The area (feminine) cannot be "καλεόμενον" (it) but as above "καλεομένην" (she). For the area of Hestiotis as I have bold out the "καλεομένην" is used. The "καλεόμενον" is clearly attributed to the race. Note that Pindus is also a feminine name and therefore cannot have an "it"-epithet.

The translation is the same all over, wherever you search on Herodotus.

http://www.parstimes.com/history/herodotus/persian_wars/clio.html

http://www.greektexts.com/library/Herodotus/Clio/eng/323.html

Some basic Ancient Greek grammar for you...

O καλεόμενος = "he" who is "called"
Η καλεομένην = "she" who is "called"
To καλεόμενον = "it" which is "called"

Moreover look the endings which are of the same gender: Μακεδνὸν καλεόμενον



Now Petro...

Can you find a world-wide respected academic publication* that says that Ancient Macedonians spoke slavic and that is generaly accepted? As far as most of us are aware of there are two schools of though the last 20 years:

a) Hammond, Erlington, Masson, Hoffman etc who are clear about the Greek Macedonian language.

b) Borza, who says they were not originally Greek speaking but became and were accepted in the end as Greeks.

When we speak about names like Hammond, Borza, Erlington, Masson we're dealing with publications made by Cambridge, Oxford and Pensilvania S.U. We're talking about people that are being referenced in every single book about Greece and specifically the area of Ancient Macedonia.

*I'm just mentioning some metrics here cause we need to distinct a name from a NAME and filter unortodox methodology.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2008 at 18:37
Originally posted by Byzantine Emperor

Originally posted by Petro Invictus

Isn't there anything else under the blue sky, regarding Macedonia, that you are interested in, which you can discuss with me rather than the "Greekness" of it?

I believe the article we are discussing here is about Macedonia.
 
What are you talking about?  I never did argue with you about "Greekness" or anything to do with Macedonia, really.  I asked you to clarify your terminology, which you never did by the way.
 
Also, my question as to whether or not you were interested in anything else besides Macedonia and Slavs was not in the context of this thread but in general.  It is all we have seen you post and argue over here at AE.  Oh well, I was trying politely to point out that you may have been considered one-sided or "centric" during yout tenure at All Empires.
 


Thank you for pointing that out to me BE. You never did argue about "Greekness" or anything to do with Macedonia, that is true. However, there seems to be a consistency in dealing with this issue in a most uniformed manner, according to a model that has been promoted only recently, in terms of human history, and models that provide a variety of other perspectives are simply rendered as amateur, invalid, or inauspiciously untrue, along with the abominable rhetorics as demonstrated by certain members, whose purpose is only to discredit, not criticize viewpoints that contradict theirs, this due to lack of argumentation I suppose. This on the other hand, if not prevented, is not objected to by anyone, including you. Thence, my inclination to consider your engagement in the AE, if not centric as in my case, then as slightly biased, if you know what I mean.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2008 at 18:42
One more example equivalent to the "Μακεδονιστί" which you want to see as another language.

Theocritus, Idylls, 15, 92

Κορίνθιαι εἰμὲς ἄνωθεν,
ὡς καὶ ὁ Βελλεροφῶν· Πελοποννασιστὶ λαλεῦμες·
δωρίσδεν δ᾽ ἐξεστι, δοκῶ, τοῖς Δωριέεσσι.

We are Corinthian women by extraction. What we talk is Peloponnesian. I suppose Dorians may speak Doric, mayn't they?

Are those non Greek languages Petro? Note, also that most peloponesians were Dorians in speech, but here they seem to have named the southern Dorian dialect Peloponnesian.

http://www.mikrosapoplous.gr/theocritus/thcrts15.htm


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2008 at 18:47
Originally posted by Flipper



Now Petro...

Can you find a world-wide respected academic publication* that says that Ancient Macedonians spoke slavic and that is generaly accepted? As far as most of us are aware of there are two schools of though the last 20 years:

a) Hammond, Erlington, Masson, Hoffman etc who are clear about the Greek Macedonian language.

b) Borza, who says they were not originally Greek speaking but became and were accepted in the end as Greeks.

When we speak about names like Hammond, Borza, Erlington, Masson we're dealing with publications made by Cambridge, Oxford and Pensilvania S.U. We're talking about people that are being referenced in every single book about Greece and specifically the area of Ancient Macedonia.

*I'm just mentioning some metrics here cause we need to distinct a name from a NAME and filter unortodox methodology.


All of your posting Flipper can be summarized, as in the article in question, in a paragraph that I will repost to you since you obviously avoid taking any notice to it:

"This is why linguists take several remarks by the authors of ancient dictionaries, which otherwise might have been interpreted as indications for a mere difference in dialect, very seriously. For example, there is evidence that Greeks were unable to understand people who were makedonizein, "speaking Macedonian". The Macedonian king Alexander the Great was not understood by the Greeks when he shouted an order in his native tongue and the Greek commander Eumenes needed a translator to address the soldiers of the Macedonian phalanx. The Greek orators Thrasymachus of Chalcedon and Demosthenes of Athens called Macedonian kings like Archelaus and Philip II barbarians, which prima facie means that they did not speak Greek. Now this happens in polemical contexts and is certainly exaggerated (not so sure myself!), but the statements need to refer to some kind of linguistic reality. (understated in my opinion!)"

I think you should debate this with the author of the article, and that would be Jona Lendering I guess!

I totally support this view, and in addition I would say that the language that the Macedonians spoke, was proto-Slavic.

"Can you find a world-wide respected academic publication..."

I think we need to distinguish between those who respect the Aryan model of reading history with those who respect the Ancient world. I am sure if we consult the Arabic sources they would certainly say that Basil I Macedonian was of pure Slavic origin, which was again discredited by thos who follow the Aryan model, which now, in the light of other discoveries, such as Florin Curta's, in makes sense completely. The Europocentric view based on the Greek "divinity", has gone even that far as to render Arabic sources as imbecile, when in fact we know that Arabic historiography is much more plausible and neutral than that of the 19th century.

"World-wide" needs redefining! The world you are defending is Europocentric, while the world I am promoting is cosmopolitan.

Now, BE, who is centric in this light?




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2008 at 18:49
Originally posted by Petro Invictus

abominable rhetorics as demonstrated by certain members, whose purpose is only to discredit, not criticize viewpoints that contradict theirs, this due to lack of argumentation I suppose. This on the other hand, if not prevented, is not objected to by anyone, including you. Thence, my inclination to consider your engagement in the AE, if not centric as in my case, then as slightly biased, if you know what I mean.


If you are refering to me, say it by my name, Flipper. I don't really like to be refered in 3rd person while i'm present. As for the characterizations, the forum will judge me as a whole.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2008 at 18:53
Originally posted by Petro Invictus

Originally posted by Flipper



Now Petro...

Can you find a world-wide respected academic publication* that says that Ancient Macedonians spoke slavic and that is generaly accepted? As far as most of us are aware of there are two schools of though the last 20 years:

a) Hammond, Erlington, Masson, Hoffman etc who are clear about the Greek Macedonian language.

b) Borza, who says they were not originally Greek speaking but became and were accepted in the end as Greeks.

When we speak about names like Hammond, Borza, Erlington, Masson we're dealing with publications made by Cambridge, Oxford and Pensilvania S.U. We're talking about people that are being referenced in every single book about Greece and specifically the area of Ancient Macedonia.

*I'm just mentioning some metrics here cause we need to distinct a name from a NAME and filter unortodox methodology.


All of your posting Flipper can be summarized, as in the article in question, in a paragraph that I will repost to you since you obviously avoid taking any notice to it:

"This is why linguists take several remarks by the authors of ancient dictionaries, which otherwise might have been interpreted as indications for a mere difference in dialect, very seriously. For example, there is evidence that Greeks were unable to understand people who were makedonizein, "speaking Macedonian". The Macedonian king Alexander the Great was not understood by the Greeks when he shouted an order in his native tongue and the Greek commander Eumenes needed a translator to address the soldiers of the Macedonian phalanx. The Greek orators Thrasymachus of Chalcedon and Demosthenes of Athens called Macedonian kings like Archelaus and Philip II barbarians, which prima facie means that they did not speak Greek. Now this happens in polemical contexts and is certainly exaggerated (not so sure myself!), but the statements need to refer to some kind of linguistic reality. (understated in my opinion!)"

I think you should debate this with the author of the article, and that would be Jona Lendering I guess!

I totally support this view, and in addition I would say that the language that the Macedonians spoke, was proto-Slavic.

"Can you find a world-wide respected academic publication..."

I think we need to distinguish between those who respect the Aryan model of reading history with those who respect the Ancient world. I am sure if we consult the Arabic sources they would certainly say that Basil I Macedonian was of pure Slavic origin, which was again discredited by thos who follow the Aryan model, which now, in the light of other discoveries, such as Florin Curta's, in makes sense completely. The Europocentric view based on the Greek "divinity", has gone even that far as to render Arabic sources as imbecile, when in fact we know that Arabic historiography is much more plausible and neutral than that of the 19th century.

"World-wide" needs redefining! The world you are defending is Europocentric, while the world I am promoting is cosmopolitan.

Now, BE, who is centric in this light?




Jona Linderings phrase has been flushed by deep analysis by Elias K., Hammond, Erlington, Ian Worthington and others.

Your answer is ok by me though. It is your view and you have expressed it. I respect that more that the previous manners you've shown. I think we've both expressed our thoughts which are available for everyone to read and judge.

Thank you. Cheers

PS: I'm not Europocentric at all...I quoted Punjabis for example in Antiochus part. Btw, can you just answer the yes or no question, so that we're done with everything? Ignore my last comment.


Edited by Flipper - 19-Jun-2008 at 18:56


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2008 at 20:21
I expected to learn a bit more from you guys! Last time you gave me a full training on how to deal with propagandists. I learned to be an honest researcher, and at all times I was lead by my intuition and my determination to prove a point. And I was amazed to the realization that the net is full of information that reveal the truth. However, it is still a matter of interpretations, and manipulations particularly by those who support the views of the oppressors. The history has two sides, just like everything else.

It takes a lot of time to prove a point, and a lot of love for humanity to be able to see the truth. It is pointless to do it in front of people who would not even think of accepting anything else but what their policy makers have determined to boost their pride, vested in supposed objectivity, to a viewpoint that is dying out. A viewpoint that has damaged the world to a great extent, that we as humans living in this new era, should learn from and do better than those before us. It is still a shame for many not to be able to see the light of the new world descending from the highest of all human endeavors. It is the light that once the Macedonians gave to the world uniting it as one, under a single cosmopolitan umbrella. The Macedonians are again calling for the world to listen and see the truth behind the veil and undo the wrongs that were done in the past. Therefore, I depart from this assembly with only this more to say:

Ma'at and Ishfet-Macedonia and Greece

 

In the ancient times Egypt was the Sun Kingdom and the Jewish hoards their Ishfet! Let me clarify, in those times civilizations were created on several places in the world: Tibet, Egypt, Macedonia, the Andes... However, due to climate changes, there were migrations of hoards, looking for better pastures! The Kingdoms were created upon a heroic lineage! In other words you had to have a descendant of a God to establish a Kingdom, in any other case you are just a hoard, or tribe!

The history of Egypt is divided in several stages, which are fairly different! However there is a drastic change in cultural life during the Second intermediate period! Apparently before 1650 BC the Egyptians lived peacefully and in accordance with the Sun god, a culture they called Ma'at!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma'at

"Ma'at as a principle was at least partially codified into a set of laws, and expressed a ubiquitous concept of correct from wrong characterized by concepts of truth and a respect for, and adherence to, this divine order believed to be set forth by her at the time of the world's creation. This divine order was primarily conceived of as being modeled in various environmental, agricultural, and social relationships."

In the 1650's BC the Hebrew tribes invaded Egypt, in search for pastures! This is even recorded in the Bible with the story of Joseph in Egypt! The Hebrew tribes took over one part of Egypt and forced the Pharaoh to relocate its seat to Thebes!

"Around 1650 BC, as the power of the Middle Kingdom pharaohs weakened, Asiatic immigrants living in the Eastern Delta town of Avaris seized control of the region and forced the central government to retreat to Thebes, where the pharaoh was treated as a vassal and expected to pay tribute.[42] The Hyksos ("foreign rulers") imitated Egyptian models of government and portrayed themselves as pharaohs, thus integrating Egyptian elements into their Middle Bronze Age culture."

These "foreign rulers" or Hyksos as a term can be traced down in Coptic as a phrase that means: "Desert Princes". As we know from the Bible the Jewish spent a lot of time in the desert! Egypt lived in the Ma'at principle and were therefore non-violent and allowed these foreigners to settle in their territory which caused the decline of the Egyptian rule and the relocation of the seat of the Pharaoh! The new principle of rule, based on lucid territorial theft by imitating the system of the Ma'at in Egypt became known as Ishfet! Ma'at and Ishfet! This is the blueprint of any civilizational clash in history of mankind!

This was the first time the Ma'at kingdom of Egypt, also known as the Sun Kingdom of Egypt, met the "shadow of Ishfet". The main antidote to the Sun god of Egypt was the snake Apophis! IT was the carrier of the Ishfet! Ishfet was opposite of any principle of Ma'at!

The reason I am telling this is that the House of Macedon was another heroic lineage of the Sun god! It was a Ma'at Kingdom! In fact, in the Rosetta stone the Macedonians are literally described as "the children of Ma"! Alexander was welcomed as a Sun God in Egypt when he took it from the Persian! The Macedonian codex which later became the Justinian Law or Roman Law, created upon traditions and customs of the Emperor's native folks, and we know he came from Skupi, or Skopje! This codex has been our legacy since the most ancient of times since we are descendants of a heroic lineage! It is woven in our traditions, songs, dances, respect for all, love of freedom, human rights, equality through diversity!

The Macedonian identity is that of cosmopolitanism! It was Alexander's legacy ever since he mixed 10 000 of Macedonian men with Persian women! The most famous wedding ceremony of all times!!! We have the responsibility to carry on with the Ma'at principle of: "truth, order—law, morality, and justice (sometimes personified as a goddess)". Our Justice must prevail against the Ishfet that has been given to us! Who do you think is the Macedonian Ishfet, if the Hebrew tribes were for the Egyptians? Could it be that the Doric tribes who invaded the Balkans and destroyed the Mycenaean and Minoan civilizations, which were the predecessors of the House of Macedon! After all the Qumran scrolls reveal that the mythical fathers of the Macedonians were Myce, Mino, and Makedon! The Doric tribes introduced what was to be known as the Greek Dark Ages:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_dark_ages

During that time: "The writing of Greek language appears to cease."

And it goes further:

"The Greeks of the Dark Age lived in fewer and smaller settlements suggesting famine and depopulation."
"The palace centers and outlying settlements of the Mycenaean’s highly organized culture began to be abandoned or destroyed."
"The kingdoms and elaborate systems of the Mycenaean culture were gone."
"Many explanations attribute the fall of the Mycenaean civilization to environmental catastrophe combined with a Dorian invasion. Whatever the reason, there was an irrevocable systems collapse which resulted in the complete failure of two civilizations in the Eastern Mediterranean region."

"In the Dark Ages after the collapse of the palace cultures, there were no more monumental stone buildings, writing ceased, vital trade links were lost, and towns and villages were abandoned. The population of Greece fell and the world of organized state armies, kings, officials, and redistributive systems disappeared."

And these facts reveal the pack mentality that replaced the Ma'at one!

"Greece in this time was divided into independent regions known as demos. A demos contained the main town and outlying settlements. The title of a war leader in this time was basileus; such a leader was not quite a king, but held a position of power with a limitation of his powers over others."

"The syllabary of the Mycenaean Linear B script was replaced with a new alphabet system, adopted from the Phoenicians. The Greeks adapted the Phoenician alphabet, notably introducing scripts for vowel sounds and creating the first truly alphabetic (as opposed to syllabic) writing system. The adapted alphabet quickly spread throughout the Mediterranean and was used to write not only the Greek language, but also other languages in the Eastern Mediterranean. As Greece sent out colonies west towards Sicily and Italy, the influence of their new alphabet extended further."

"Most Greeks did not live in isolated farmsteads but in small settlements. Law was customary and most disputes were resolved by the village chieftain (basileus) or a simple council of elders. Murder was a private affair with settlement through material compensation or exile."

This all caused a new period in Greece known as Archaic! Since the Archaic period followed the Greek Dark Ages, and saw significant advancements in political theory, and the rise of democracy, philosophy, theatre, poetry, as well as the revitalization of the written language (which had been lost during the Dark Ages), the term archaic was extended to these aspects as well.

The newly arrived Doric tribes who destroyed the two kingdoms established a new rule, since they could not provide the lineage, and they called it democracy! It was the city-states that started developing on these grounds that later saw themselves as civilized in comparison with the barbaric Macedonians to the north, who were still followers of the "old system", while the Greeks saw themselves as modern and civilized and democratic! It was this vision of democracy that has blinded the western mind in the 19th century, which proved beneficiary to Greece and so devastating to Macedonia!

The difference between the city-states ruled by a pack mentality or Ishfet, and the Sun God mentality of the Ma'at in the Kindom of Macedon was that of "democracy" (based on slavery and discrimination), and monarchy based on a heroic lineage and a Ma'at mentality!

Let me remind you that today some scholars have detected a lot of proto Slavic words in Homer's works. And we know he described events from before the Dorian invasions! There are lot of words that are still in use in modern day Macedonian that can be found in Homer's original work! They are written with the Greek script, but at that time it was not Greek, it was Phoenician! Used by many! As with the Demotic! IF we look at all this it turns out that what happened to Egypt, which had devastating consequences on the whole of the western civilizations (something we can discuss further, since we are talking about heroic lineages and they have a story of their own to tell), happened to Macedonia as well! Both Egypt and Macedonia were the Kingdoms of Ma'at and were created in a heroic age, only to be interwoven with the shadows, the packs or the desert princes, and thus create this fusion of lights and shadows that we call our world today! Similar thing is happening between Tibet and China.

By the way have you seen the Tibetan flag:

http://www.savetibet.org/images/images/TibetFlag.gif

And since history repeats itself, all we need to do is take a deep look in it and recognize the patterns. IN that way we can prevent unwanted events from repeating to us and thus heal our karma! The best way to heal one's karma is to love and forgive! And since we hold the legacy of "this divine order that we should remodel in accordance to various environmental, agricultural, and social relationships", we should realize that those who took over our land and history, similarly to "the Hyksos ("foreign rulers") who imitated Egyptian models of government and portrayed themselves as pharaohs", are imitating our Ma'at! They are trying to learn how we are doing it! My dear Macedonians let us show them then! Let us show the Macedonian love and forgiveness for all that the Greek Ishfet has done to the Macedonian Ma'at! Let us open our hearts and allow them to help those in the shadow see the true light of the Sun! The time is closing up! We need to be truthful to our teachings!

It was the Macedonians who preached the Gospel in the New Testament! Marco, Luke, Philip and even Mary Mary Magdalene, who was Philip's sister, were ethnic Macedonians not Greeks! Marco was never a Greek name, neither was Luka nor Philip! The man who appeared in St.Paul's dream was a Macedonian, and Lydia the first European to be Christened was also Macedonian! Why Macedonians! Why the children of Ma? Why were we the Word-bearers, to give the light to many who have derived from us in the past and maybe even wandered away from the flock! We have done it many times, why not now! Do not detest the Greeks, detest their ignorance! Love the people who have done you harm, after all that is what Christ teacher us! That is that way dear children of Ma! Follow it!




 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2008 at 21:25
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2008 at 21:36
Originally posted by Petro Invictus

It was the Macedonians who preached the Gospel in the New Testament! Marco, Luke, Philip and even Mary Mary Magdalene, who was Philip's sister, were ethnic Macedonians not Greeks! Marco was never a Greek name, neither was Luka nor Philip! The man who appeared in St.Paul's dream was a Macedonian, and Lydia the first European to be Christened was also Macedonian! Why Macedonians! Why the children of Ma? Why were we the Word-bearers, to give the light to many who have derived from us in the past and maybe even wandered away from the flock! We have done it many times, why not now! Do not detest the Greeks, detest their ignorance! Love the people who have done you harm, after all that is what Christ teacher us! That is that way dear children of Ma! Follow it!
 
Um, I thought the first Apostles were Jews living in Palestine who spread the Gospel using koine Greek.  Although their native language was Aramaic, koine Greek was the "lingua Franca" of the eastern Roman provinces.  And if you mean Jesus Christ was a Macedonian when you say "The man who appeared in St.Paul's dream was a Macedonian," well, that is just rediculous.


Edited by Byzantine Emperor - 19-Jun-2008 at 21:52
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2008 at 21:57
Originally posted by Petro Invictus

It was the Macedonians who preached the Gospel in the New Testament! Marco, Luke, Philip and even Mary Mary Magdalene, who was Philip's sister, were ethnic Macedonians not Greeks! Marco was never a Greek name, neither was Luka nor Philip! The man who appeared in St.Paul's dream was a Macedonian, and Lydia the first European to be Christened was also Macedonian! Why Macedonians! Why the children of Ma? Why were we the Word-bearers, to give the light to many who have derived from us in the past and maybe even wandered away from the flock! We have done it many times, why not now! Do not detest the Greeks, detest their ignorance! Love the people who have done you harm, after all that is what Christ teacher us! That is that way dear children of Ma! Follow it!
 
LOLLOLLOL
 
If anyone took this nonsense seriously, Petro, I'd be worried. Come to think of it, do you actually believe this balderdash about the Apostles being Macedonian? And if so, do you believe everyone in Judaea province at that time was Macedonian? What about Jesus, Mary and Joseph? Thankfully there are actual scholars who know what actually happened. 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2008 at 22:20
This is getting good. Wait, what am I saying? It already has reached a level of heightened entertainment. Petro, care to make another preposterous claim?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2008 at 23:31

Petro....Epic Fail

 
So to wrap it all up, the Indegenious Slavs of the Balkans were ruled by the Slav Alexander the Great who took Slavic culture and spread it through the middle east, making everyone else a Slav including the entire biblical cast of the new testament and Jesus Christ, a slav macedonian died for our sins while his slavic macedonian apostles spread the word through slavic macedonian language.
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2008 at 23:59
Originally posted by Petro Invictus

I expected to learn a bit more from you guys! Last time you gave me a full training on how to deal with propagandists. I learned to be an honest researcher, and at all times I was lead by my intuition and my determination to prove a point. And I was amazed to the realization that the net is full of information that reveal the truth. However, it is still a matter of interpretations, and manipulations particularly by those who support the views of the oppressors. The history has two sides, just like everything else.

It takes a lot of time to prove a point, and a lot of love for humanity to be able to see the truth. It is pointless to do it in front of people who would not even think of accepting anything else but what their policy makers have determined to boost their pride, vested in supposed objectivity, to a viewpoint that is dying out. A viewpoint that has damaged the world to a great extent, that we as humans living in this new era, should learn from and do better than those before us. It is still a shame for many not to be able to see the light of the new world descending from the highest of all human endeavors. It is the light that once the Macedonians gave to the world uniting it as one, under a single cosmopolitan umbrella. The Macedonians are again calling for the world to listen and see the truth behind the veil and undo the wrongs that were done in the past. Therefore, I depart from this assembly with only this more to say:

Ma'at and Ishfet-Macedonia and Greece

 

In the ancient times Egypt was the Sun Kingdom and the Jewish hoards their Ishfet! Let me clarify, in those times civilizations were created on several places in the world: Tibet, Egypt, Macedonia, the Andes... However, due to climate changes, there were migrations of hoards, looking for better pastures! The Kingdoms were created upon a heroic lineage! In other words you had to have a descendant of a God to establish a Kingdom, in any other case you are just a hoard, or tribe!

The history of Egypt is divided in several stages, which are fairly different! However there is a drastic change in cultural life during the Second intermediate period! Apparently before 1650 BC the Egyptians lived peacefully and in accordance with the Sun god, a culture they called Ma'at!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma'at

"Ma'at as a principle was at least partially codified into a set of laws, and expressed a ubiquitous concept of correct from wrong characterized by concepts of truth and a respect for, and adherence to, this divine order believed to be set forth by her at the time of the world's creation. This divine order was primarily conceived of as being modeled in various environmental, agricultural, and social relationships."

In the 1650's BC the Hebrew tribes invaded Egypt, in search for pastures! This is even recorded in the Bible with the story of Joseph in Egypt! The Hebrew tribes took over one part of Egypt and forced the Pharaoh to relocate its seat to Thebes!

"Around 1650 BC, as the power of the Middle Kingdom pharaohs weakened, Asiatic immigrants living in the Eastern Delta town of Avaris seized control of the region and forced the central government to retreat to Thebes, where the pharaoh was treated as a vassal and expected to pay tribute.[42] The Hyksos ("foreign rulers") imitated Egyptian models of government and portrayed themselves as pharaohs, thus integrating Egyptian elements into their Middle Bronze Age culture."

These "foreign rulers" or Hyksos as a term can be traced down in Coptic as a phrase that means: "Desert Princes". As we know from the Bible the Jewish spent a lot of time in the desert! Egypt lived in the Ma'at principle and were therefore non-violent and allowed these foreigners to settle in their territory which caused the decline of the Egyptian rule and the relocation of the seat of the Pharaoh! The new principle of rule, based on lucid territorial theft by imitating the system of the Ma'at in Egypt became known as Ishfet! Ma'at and Ishfet! This is the blueprint of any civilizational clash in history of mankind!

This was the first time the Ma'at kingdom of Egypt, also known as the Sun Kingdom of Egypt, met the "shadow of Ishfet". The main antidote to the Sun god of Egypt was the snake Apophis! IT was the carrier of the Ishfet! Ishfet was opposite of any principle of Ma'at!

The reason I am telling this is that the House of Macedon was another heroic lineage of the Sun god! It was a Ma'at Kingdom! In fact, in the Rosetta stone the Macedonians are literally described as "the children of Ma"! Alexander was welcomed as a Sun God in Egypt when he took it from the Persian! The Macedonian codex which later became the Justinian Law or Roman Law, created upon traditions and customs of the Emperor's native folks, and we know he came from Skupi, or Skopje! This codex has been our legacy since the most ancient of times since we are descendants of a heroic lineage! It is woven in our traditions, songs, dances, respect for all, love of freedom, human rights, equality through diversity!

The Macedonian identity is that of cosmopolitanism! It was Alexander's legacy ever since he mixed 10 000 of Macedonian men with Persian women! The most famous wedding ceremony of all times!!! We have the responsibility to carry on with the Ma'at principle of: "truth, order—law, morality, and justice (sometimes personified as a goddess)". Our Justice must prevail against the Ishfet that has been given to us! Who do you think is the Macedonian Ishfet, if the Hebrew tribes were for the Egyptians? Could it be that the Doric tribes who invaded the Balkans and destroyed the Mycenaean and Minoan civilizations, which were the predecessors of the House of Macedon! After all the Qumran scrolls reveal that the mythical fathers of the Macedonians were Myce, Mino, and Makedon! The Doric tribes introduced what was to be known as the Greek Dark Ages:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_dark_ages

During that time: "The writing of Greek language appears to cease."

And it goes further:

"The Greeks of the Dark Age lived in fewer and smaller settlements suggesting famine and depopulation."
"The palace centers and outlying settlements of the Mycenaean’s highly organized culture began to be abandoned or destroyed."
"The kingdoms and elaborate systems of the Mycenaean culture were gone."
"Many explanations attribute the fall of the Mycenaean civilization to environmental catastrophe combined with a Dorian invasion. Whatever the reason, there was an irrevocable systems collapse which resulted in the complete failure of two civilizations in the Eastern Mediterranean region."

"In the Dark Ages after the collapse of the palace cultures, there were no more monumental stone buildings, writing ceased, vital trade links were lost, and towns and villages were abandoned. The population of Greece fell and the world of organized state armies, kings, officials, and redistributive systems disappeared."

And these facts reveal the pack mentality that replaced the Ma'at one!

"Greece in this time was divided into independent regions known as demos. A demos contained the main town and outlying settlements. The title of a war leader in this time was basileus; such a leader was not quite a king, but held a position of power with a limitation of his powers over others."

"The syllabary of the Mycenaean Linear B script was replaced with a new alphabet system, adopted from the Phoenicians. The Greeks adapted the Phoenician alphabet, notably introducing scripts for vowel sounds and creating the first truly alphabetic (as opposed to syllabic) writing system. The adapted alphabet quickly spread throughout the Mediterranean and was used to write not only the Greek language, but also other languages in the Eastern Mediterranean. As Greece sent out colonies west towards Sicily and Italy, the influence of their new alphabet extended further."

"Most Greeks did not live in isolated farmsteads but in small settlements. Law was customary and most disputes were resolved by the village chieftain (basileus) or a simple council of elders. Murder was a private affair with settlement through material compensation or exile."

This all caused a new period in Greece known as Archaic! Since the Archaic period followed the Greek Dark Ages, and saw significant advancements in political theory, and the rise of democracy, philosophy, theatre, poetry, as well as the revitalization of the written language (which had been lost during the Dark Ages), the term archaic was extended to these aspects as well.

The newly arrived Doric tribes who destroyed the two kingdoms established a new rule, since they could not provide the lineage, and they called it democracy! It was the city-states that started developing on these grounds that later saw themselves as civilized in comparison with the barbaric Macedonians to the north, who were still followers of the "old system", while the Greeks saw themselves as modern and civilized and democratic! It was this vision of democracy that has blinded the western mind in the 19th century, which proved beneficiary to Greece and so devastating to Macedonia!

The difference between the city-states ruled by a pack mentality or Ishfet, and the Sun God mentality of the Ma'at in the Kindom of Macedon was that of "democracy" (based on slavery and discrimination), and monarchy based on a heroic lineage and a Ma'at mentality!

Let me remind you that today some scholars have detected a lot of proto Slavic words in Homer's works. And we know he described events from before the Dorian invasions! There are lot of words that are still in use in modern day Macedonian that can be found in Homer's original work! They are written with the Greek script, but at that time it was not Greek, it was Phoenician! Used by many! As with the Demotic! IF we look at all this it turns out that what happened to Egypt, which had devastating consequences on the whole of the western civilizations (something we can discuss further, since we are talking about heroic lineages and they have a story of their own to tell), happened to Macedonia as well! Both Egypt and Macedonia were the Kingdoms of Ma'at and were created in a heroic age, only to be interwoven with the shadows, the packs or the desert princes, and thus create this fusion of lights and shadows that we call our world today! Similar thing is happening between Tibet and China.

By the way have you seen the Tibetan flag:

http://www.savetibet.org/images/images/TibetFlag.gif

And since history repeats itself, all we need to do is take a deep look in it and recognize the patterns. IN that way we can prevent unwanted events from repeating to us and thus heal our karma! The best way to heal one's karma is to love and forgive! And since we hold the legacy of "this divine order that we should remodel in accordance to various environmental, agricultural, and social relationships", we should realize that those who took over our land and history, similarly to "the Hyksos ("foreign rulers") who imitated Egyptian models of government and portrayed themselves as pharaohs", are imitating our Ma'at! They are trying to learn how we are doing it! My dear Macedonians let us show them then! Let us show the Macedonian love and forgiveness for all that the Greek Ishfet has done to the Macedonian Ma'at! Let us open our hearts and allow them to help those in the shadow see the true light of the Sun! The time is closing up! We need to be truthful to our teachings!

It was the Macedonians who preached the Gospel in the New Testament! Marco, Luke, Philip and even Mary Mary Magdalene, who was Philip's sister, were ethnic Macedonians not Greeks! Marco was never a Greek name, neither was Luka nor Philip! The man who appeared in St.Paul's dream was a Macedonian, and Lydia the first European to be Christened was also Macedonian! Why Macedonians! Why the children of Ma? Why were we the Word-bearers, to give the light to many who have derived from us in the past and maybe even wandered away from the flock! We have done it many times, why not now! Do not detest the Greeks, detest their ignorance! Love the people who have done you harm, after all that is what Christ teacher us! That is that way dear children of Ma! Follow it!

LOLLOLLOL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crank_%28person%29

Common characteristics of cranks

The second book of the philosopher and popular author Martin Gardner was a study of crank beliefs, Fads and Fallacies in the Name of Science. More recently, the mathematician Underwood Dudley has written a series of books on mathematical cranks, including The Trisectors, Mathematical Cranks, and Numerology: Or, What Pythagoras Wrought. And in a 1998 UseNet post, the mathematician John Baez humorously proposed a "checklist", the Crackpot index, intended to "diagnose" cranky beliefs regarding contemporary physics.[2]

According to these authors, virtually universal characteristics of cranks include:

  1. Cranks overestimate their own knowledge and ability, and underestimate that of acknowledged experts.
  2. Cranks insist that their alleged discoveries are urgently important.
  3. Cranks rarely if ever acknowledge any error, no matter how trivial.
  4. Cranks love to talk about their own beliefs, often in inappropriate social situations, but they tend to be bad listeners, and often appear to be uninterested in anyone else's experience or opinions.

Some cranks exhibit a lack of academic achievement, in which case they typically assert that academic training in the subject of their crank belief is not only unnecessary for discovering "the truth", but actively harmful because they believe it "poisons" the minds by teaching falsehoods. Others greatly exaggerate their personal achievements, and may insist that some alleged achievement in some entirely unrelated area of human endeavor implies that their cranky opinion should be taken seriously.

Some cranks claim vast knowledge of any relevant literature, while others claim that familiarity with previous work is entirely unnecessary; regardless, cranks inevitably reveal that whether or not they believe themselves to be knowledgeable concerning relevant matters of fact, mainstream opinion, or previous work, they are not in fact well-informed concerning the topic of their belief.

In addition, many cranks

  1. seriously misunderstand the mainstream opinion to which they believe that they are objecting,
  2. stress that they have been working out their ideas for many decades, and claim that this fact alone entails that their belief cannot be dismissed as resting upon some simple error,
  3. compare themselves with Galileo or Copernicus, implying that the mere unpopularity of some belief is in itself evidence of plausibility,
  4. claim that their ideas are being suppressed by secret intelligence organizations, mainstream science, powerful business interests, or other groups which, they allege, are terrified by the possibility of their allegedly revolutionary insights becoming widely known,
  5. appear to regard themselves as persons of unique historical importance.

Cranks who contradict some mainstream opinion in some highly technical field, such as mathematics or physics, almost always

  1. exhibit a marked lack of technical ability,
  2. misunderstand or fail to use standard notation and terminology,
  3. ignore fine distinctions which are essential to correctly understanding mainstream belief.

That is, cranks tend to ignore any previous insights which have been proven by experience to facilitate discussion and analysis of the topic of their cranky claims; indeed, they often assert that these innovations obscure rather than clarify the situation.[3]

In addition, cranky scientific "theories" do not in fact qualify as theories as this term is commonly understood within science. For example, crank "theories" in physics typically fail to result in testable predictions, which makes them unfalsifiable and hence unscientific.

Perhaps surprisingly, many cranks may appear quite normal when they are not passionately expounding their cranky belief, and they may even be successful in careers unrelated to their cranky belief. Others can (charitably) be characterized as underachievers in all walks of life.

Science fiction author and critic Bruce Sterling noted in his essay in CATSCAN 13:[4]

Online communication can wonderfully liberate the tender soul of some well-meaning personage who, for whatever reason, is physically uncharismatic. Unfortunately, online communication also fertilizes the eccentricities of hopeless cranks, who at last find themselves in firm possession of a wondrous soapbox that the Trilateral Commission and the Men In Black had previously denied them.

The psychology of cranks

A widely quoted study by two Cornell University psychologists, Justin Kruger and David Dunning, is often thought to bear directly upon a striking and virtually universal characteristic of cranks: they simultaneously overestimate their own knowledge and ability and underestimate that of other persons, including that of acknowledged experts in the field.[Quotation needed from source]

Kruger and Dunning hypothesized that with regard to a typical skill which humans may possess in greater or lesser degree:[5]

  1. incompetent individuals tend to overestimate their own level of skill,
  2. incompetent individuals fail to recognize genuine skill in others,
  3. incompetent individuals fail to recognize the extremity of their inadequacy,
  4. if they can be trained to improve their own skill level, these individuals can recognize and acknowledge their own previous lack of skill.

They confirmed these hypotheses in a series of tests.

These results are taken to explain why cranks so often seem to represent, not individuals with an exceptional degree of knowledge, but rather individuals with an exceptional degree of ignorance concerning the subject of their cranky belief.

As noted above, in addition to a general lack of ability to accurately assess their own skills and knowledge, many cranks also exhibit deficiencies in reading comprehension, logical reasoning, and other cognitive abnormalities, which may contribute both to how they arrive at some bizarre counterfactual belief in the first place, and to how they are able to cling to such a belief in the face of all objections.

Many cranks seem to exhibit certain symptoms of grandiosity or megalomania. This may perhaps also be understood, in terms of the phenomenon studied by Kruger and Dunning, as resulting from a simultaneous overinflation of their own social value and underestimation of the social value of others.


"Of the twenty-two civilizations that have appeared in history, nineteen of them collapsed when they reached the moral state the United States is in now."

-Arnold J. Toynbee
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jun-2008 at 12:24

It was the Macedonians who preached the Gospel in the New Testament! Marco, Luke, Philip and even Mary Mary Magdalene, who was Philip's sister, were ethnic Macedonians not Greeks!


Oh, I thought they were Jews....

The man who appeared in St.Paul's dream was a Macedonian,


God is Macedonian? So if he made us according to his image, we are all Macedonians?

Why Macedonians! Why the children of Ma?


Is this another name for Mu the lost continent? LOL

Why were we the Word-bearers, to give the light to many who have derived from us in the past and maybe even wandered away from the flock! We have done it many times, why not now! Do not detest the Greeks, detest their ignorance! Love the people who have done you harm, after all that is what Christ teacher us! That is that way dear children of Ma! Follow it!



After this I have to admit I am not sure if you are serious or just joking.



Edited by Vorian - 20-Jun-2008 at 12:25
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