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Who was Chiu?

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  Quote demon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Who was Chiu?
    Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 17:50

Chiu, the God of War in Asia, praised by Eastern Asia, his head displayed in many asian shields, demonstrate his might.  BTW, he's my avatar picture.  So Who was Chiu?

According to Handangogi, you get to see a broad perspective of Chiu.  He was the 14th king of Baedal, in 2707BC(let's not discuss whether this existed or not-the focus is on Chiu's archievements).  He was also called 慈烏支天皇(ziaozichonwang) and he never lost any battle and is seen as a hero of war for Koreans who follow Baedal.

At the time of Chiu's accend to throne, Baedal was weakening- and challages were arising.  One big challage arose when 華山族(Hwa san jok) people, who lead many cities on the south, lead by 楡罔(yoo mang) invaded into Baedal, breaking a compromise.

Chiu embraced for a war.  He ordered thousands of spears, helmets, arrows, and armor with iron, which is a revoltionary archievment for that prehistoric timeWhether or not you doubt whether he had iron at that time, let's still focus on what happens next.

Chiu gathered his Baedal people in Galo mountain range(葛盧山. 葛石山.  He initially made 9 generals, with 9 legions, which divided into 9 more, creating a total of 81 generals.  He then advanced to takron.  In Takron, the lord was on Yoo mang's side and was constructing a fort to counter the cavarly army.  However, becasue the fort was poorly made in a flat prarie instead of a mountain, takron's doors were ravaged, and the city was fallen by superior equipped Chiu's army in several hours.  It was Chiu's first victory, in the first battle.  After his victory, other states surrendered without a fight or with a brief clash.  Before the 1st year, 9 states surrendered to Chiu.

To counter this menace, Yoo Mang decided to make a capital in GongSan and sent 少昊(soho), a general, to command an army to crush Chiu.

Soho had twice the number of men than Chiu. But Chiu planted dried yarn and explosives near the way to 泰山(tesan), and he pretended a defeat from Soho and lured him into the ambush.  When Soho's men chased behind like dogs, Chiu lunged his hand into the sky, and smoke with a loud thunder filled the area.  Soho's men tried to escape, only to face falling rocks and arrows from the top.  Almost none of Soho's men survived.

Actually what happened was that Chiu had lit the dried yarn and explosives, creating fire and the loud thunder and the same time.  This lunged the enemy into chaos.  Anyway, the enemy thought from that moment that Chiu could forge thunder and smoke, and change mountains and rivers.  Soho and Yoo San ran away, and peace followed in Baedal.

However, another challanger named 公孫氏 軒轅(hun won)  united the hwa san people and waged another series of war.  This 10 year war, with nearly 70 battles, was all won by Chiu.  And as Hun Won surrenders, he lets him rule his own place, in a high rank.

Chiu was always successful in his battles in the fact that he used revolutiobnary weapons such as iron at that time.  He also used geography to his advantage.  In origin, the old word for Iron 鐵 was made by the combination of gold 金 and "barbarian" 夷, meaning that Iron came from Non Chinese-this case it implies Baedal, which accedes to choson, puyo, koguri, koreanWhatever is the reason of his victory, Chiu's stragegy with the usage of his Cavarly made his title: the god of war. 

His legend persists: Because he warred in Chinese land, and influeced it, China hails him as a god of war, and he is praised in many temples.  The red also could have originated from Chiu's color: red.  The word 牛頭(oo-du), meaning high class, comes from Chiu's bronze helmet, which had horns coming out on each side as fashion purpose.  So, the word leader originated from "someone who has horns like Chiu".

There folks, I presented you of Chiu.   



Edited by demon
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  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 18:05
Wow, the whole ambush thing sounds very Korean..This is very interesting...
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  Quote MengTzu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 19:48
Chiu is well known in Chinese legends as the one defeated by Huangdi (Hun Won.)  I'm not contending which were true (for all I care both figures were mythological and probably didn't exist.)  My question is when did Chiu become a celebrated figure by Koreans?  I thot that Koreans traditionally believed Taegun to be their ancestor.  Is this interest in Chiu a part of the "Minjoksagwon" that seemed to have become popular in Korea?
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  Quote fastspawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 21:53
the strange thing about taegun, who supposedly existed during the 50th year of reign of King Yao of China, is that he is extremely mythological, having descended from the sky with 3000 people and being born of a bear woman?

But the odd part is that (ok when u say Taegun , i think you are referring to Dangun) is that his first mention appeared in the 13th century, the SAMGUK YUSA.

However earlier books like the SAMGUK SUGI never mention this. This has led historians to conclude that Dangun was made up, a sort of symbol to unite the Koreans against the Mongols and Khitans.
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  Quote fastspawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 21:55
demon, i have no idea who is chiu, perhaps more information or websites to investigate?
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  Quote MengTzu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 23:42

Hey fastspawn,

    If you speak Mandarin, Chiu is "Chi You."  In Cantonese he is "Chi Yao."  Chinese legends state Huangdi invented the magnetic chariot and defeated Chiu.  (Again, I'm not saying either myth is true.  As far as I'm concerned probably neither figures existed.)

Peace,

Michael

8-20-2004

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  Quote demon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Aug-2004 at 07:57

Is this interest in Chiu a part of the "Minjoksagwon" that seemed to have become popular in Korea?

Well, Korean ideals are very different from China.  It arose from continous inextinguishable lies and traitors.

You know that during Japanese occupation, there were traitors, right?  Well these traitors now form the high class in Korea, because they sided to US capitalists and these capitalists needed support.  In North Korea and China however, these traitors are all dead or f$%^ed up(1 more reason to believe communism), and most of patriots were also communists(in fact, Korea has always been a homogeneous and communist society), so they are in the right track to discover their own culture and values. 

Again, South Korea is the only nation who is still living under Japanese occupation due to the fact that traitors still live in high class.

And, during Japanese colonization, these Japs burned history books and replaced them with made up ones.  They also destroyed many customs, and replanted trees and buildings and also ruined landscape.  They bombed mountains for fear of ghosts, only to kill tigers.  They are good in doing stuffs like that.  They also forced koreans to bow everyday to Tenno, and read Japanese.  That's why there are korean words like "okebare" which derived during Japanese occupation.

The previous Samguksagi is also modified by these Japanese people.  They used samguksagi to teach Koreans during occupation.  But the tradition of this lie has been acceded by traitors who now form the high class.  So people are turning to new history books, instead of the "official" book of lie.  I'm just one of them.

Most of these people have turned to Handangogi, another history context.  It has been condemned by the high class, the traitors.  It just made another reason to believe in this book.  It speaks about an ancient himalayan civilization called Hwan-Gook(Hwan=han=bright/white/wide/big..., Gook=country), as well as Sumir(Sumerian).  It explains the mysterious pyramids in Shanxi province, because these pyramids were before Quishihuang's era.  It is followed by Baedal, and Chiu the god of War.  Then it goes into Puyo, Koguryi, and to Kori. 

Anyway, even Samguksagi speaks of Hwan gook, which adds another reason to believe it.  And samguksagi never went further speaking what happened in Hwan gook.

In addition, Seoul university once made a documentary to prove handangogi.  They did it by using a NASA tool to predict planet lining.  Handangogi had spoken of an era in which every planet made a lining.  Nasa tool had calculated these and found that the book had one year of error, which is very accurate in the science of astrology.

It's a collection of values and proves that leads me into believing all these stuffs, not minjoksagwon.

demon, i have no idea who is chiu, perhaps more information or websites to investigate?

So far, I couldn't find any sources about him in the internet.  I got the info from books-like Handangogi.

My question is when did Chiu become a celebrated figure by Koreans?  I thot that Koreans traditionally believed Taegun to be their ancestor

Funny thing about Taegun: He is condemned by Japs at first, followed by traitors, then by Christians.

There is a funny rhyme that comes with Nostradamus's prediction.  He said that in 1999, November, that a disaster would erupt by Mongolia-something like that.  In that same time, Korean Christians made a trip around Korea to chop of heads of Taegun.    Maybe Nostradamus was right...

And Chiu got widely celebrated in World Cup 2002, for revival purpose intended by soccer fans.  The whole thing about red colored fans and loud drumming came from Chiu- and his preferred color.  Also, WC started in May, which is thought as his B-Day. 

 

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  Quote MengTzu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Aug-2004 at 16:46

Hey demon,

    What is Handdangogi?  Can I read it online?  When was it written?  Who was it written by?

Peace,

Michael

8-21-2004

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Aug-2004 at 21:46
Chi You is believed by Miao people to be their ancestor. The legend of Chi You been defeated by Huang Di may be a reflection of Hua Xia expansion into former Miao territories.

btw.How did the title 天皇 exist at the time of Chi You? Are you taking infor from that picture book which contained a map of great Bai Ji empire?


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  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Aug-2004 at 00:37
Part of the Korean ancestral line is Miao...Just a random fact that I thought might be interesting
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  Quote demon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Aug-2004 at 06:50

What is Handdangogi?  Can I read it online?  When was it written?  Who was it written by?

Handangogi...its a collection of different books in one.  I don't think there is an online version---but i'll check.  It was written in 1911 by a man named Geiyonsoo, and he just copied from the following books: samsungi, dangoonsegi, bookpuyogi, tebekilsa, chunboogyong and samilshingo.

samsungi was written by shilla priest who wrote about the ancient kingdom of Hwangook to

dangoonsegi was written by a teacher named Moonjonggong, and he included important events of Dangoon

bookpuyogi was written by a philospher named bumjang, and it writes about the start of Koguri.

tebekilsa was written in choson by imek, and it talks about end of old choson to kori(koryo).

chonbugyong derived from an ancient stela

and samilshingo talks about korean identity.

 

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  Quote hansioux Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Aug-2004 at 21:07

Chi-U = Chi-You E

Chi-You was a Miao (] a race still exist in China today), which was under the rule of (Yan-Di, The King of Flames).  He was the top general of Yan-Di at the time of Di race invasion.  He was credited for the invention of metal weapons, probably bronze.  He was said to have a bull's head.  In the Di race version of the story, which was past down by Zhou (Chou) dynasty which was their decendents, Chi-You was evil and ruthless.  However if you go hear stories from those of Qiang and ] Miao, Huang Di is the invading bad guy.

It was said after Chi-You was killed by Huang-Di (, full name ]aն, Family name Gong-Suen, Tribal name Xuan-Yuan, Huang Di.  This is back in the days when Chinese could still tell apart their last name from their tribal name) the second in command of Yan-Di named D Xing-Tian  (Actually meant chopped off the head) wanted to revenge Chi-You's death.  But Huang-Di chopped off his head.  Xing-Tian wanted the revenge so bad, even though he lost his head, he did not die.  Instead his rage grow eyes and mouth on his chest.  So he is still holding his axe, looking to revenge what Huang-Di has done to his people.

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  Quote YanWang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2004 at 15:08

 

Well...............................

Its the third time i saw that great ancient tribe leader Chi-You be described as "The 14th korean Tenno", the title crowned to him after japanese influence on korea in 1900s.  

Chi You was first appeared in Confucian Classics and Han time books. Like its chinese name describes:  literally, character Chi draws a kind of insects, means "disorder""contrary""rebel"; character "You" draws a doglike man, means son of  dog  in Classic Chinese.  this could explain he was a enormous threat to other people of middle plain.

(Source:ڬ򿣬Ҳԡ򿣬Ҳ ,Ҳ.˵ġ,Ҳ˵ġ쿥Ի:ֵ֮q֮ ,ȮҲ,ҲСš,Ҳš)


Chi You's portrait(chinese folk papercut)


ChiYou(on block,North and South dynasties, )

Chi You was the preeminent leader of Miao/nine Li tribe unions(today's Miao ethnic group and Li ethnic group). he led his people engaged many bettles with tribe union of yellow emperor and flame emperor and won those. nevertheless finally his tribe, army was defeated in the war of ZhuoLu in today's Hebei province, China, by the union army led by Yellow emperor at time around 3000BC.  Also his people was annexed into the union. this was the first great unification in chinese history. therefore late chinese emperor respect him as a god of war. Espeically in Daolism classics, in which those legendary heroes were described as god, immortals, Chi You also became a chinese god worshiped in local temples across the middle kingdom.


Yellow Emperor hunting ChiYou( Han time tomb tile)


Blue spot: the Flame Emperor's tribe
Green spot: the Yellow Emperor's tribe
Brown spot: the ChiYou's nine Li tribe.


Yellow Emperor


Flame Emperor


Chi You in Chinese Daolism portrait


ChiYou in Chinese Pc game(made in taiwan)

We dont know how it became the 14th heavenly emperor(tenno) of korean, nevertheless  he was also the closest figure korean can cought in the closest place to the yellow river civilization.



Edited by YanWang


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  Quote MengTzu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2004 at 15:27

Hey all,

    It's quite amazing that few people here discuss the real significance of the Chiu / Chi You legend -- that is, the fact that it's a legend.  As Yan Wang mentioned, his name really says it all -- it seems as though he was a symbolic character, a "chaotic bug, son of a dog" that his name implied.  Unless in that particular culture, these are qualities that are admired, otherwise it's difficult to imagine being named that, and besides, his name is first mentioned in the Confucian classics, as Yan Wang mentioned, and such concepts as "chaos" and "rebellion" are the polar opposites of Confucian values, thus Chiu could simply be a symbolic character drawn up by Confucians to teach a moral lesson.  It's not impossible that there was such an actual historical figure, and that the Confucians gave him this name to denote his chaotic and rebellious character.  The facticity of such a figure is, of course, very doubtful.  The accounts about him by now are very conflicting (early Chinese sources, where he's first mentioned, depict him in the negative light,) and no archeological evidence informs us enough to say that he existed.

Peace,

Michael

9-2-2004

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  Quote hansioux Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2004 at 16:17
Originally posted by MengTzu

Hey all,

    It's quite amazing that few people here discuss the real significance of the Chiu / Chi You legend -- that is, the fact that it's a legend.  As Yan Wang mentioned, his name really says it all -- it seems as though he was a symbolic character, a "chaotic bug, son of a dog" that his name implied.  Unless in that particular culture, these are qualities that are admired, otherwise it's difficult to imagine being named that, and besides, his name is first mentioned in the Confucian classics, as Yan Wang mentioned, and such concepts as "chaos" and "rebellion" are the polar opposites of Confucian values, thus Chiu could simply be a symbolic character drawn up by Confucians to teach a moral lesson.  It's not impossible that there was such an actual historical figure, and that the Confucians gave him this name to denote his chaotic and rebellious character.  The facticity of such a figure is, of course, very doubtful.  The accounts about him by now are very conflicting (early Chinese sources, where he's first mentioned, depict him in the negative light,) and no archeological evidence informs us enough to say that he existed.

Peace,

Michael

9-2-2004

Yes, in fact these characterists were admired and worshipped.  You must realize the Chinese character normally has a broad meaning, especially in the ancient times when the language is just being.  A character of fish can mean turtle.  A character of dog can mean wolf or other dog like creaters.

As I mentioned in the ancient Chinese myth page, there were 4 major worships of 4 major races of people in the ancient China.  One of them, worships creatures with 4 legs. Such as deer and bull, that includes wolfs and dogs.

In fact, it there is a race called (Quan Rong, which means Rong of the Dogs) which have a wolf on their banner.

MengTzu, should go an read what I wrote about the Chi-You on the other thread.

http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=97&P N=1

 

For Yan Wang, 

I never like that map that you posted.  It is a way too simplified representation of that time.  The map maker might as well just put a single big circule on there that says "Chinese".  I'll find the map that I like and post it, if I can find it online.

Thanks for posting ads from Taiwanese online games, and thanks for the support of Taiwanese gaming industry. 

Finally.... you do know that all your explanation is from after the Han dynasty right?  You should go to that thread too.

Also, here's a site on the Chi-Yu subject written by your people.

http://www.3miao.com/ancestors/ciyou/

Notice that Miao people worships Chi-Yu as an anscester and they people had a tradition of worshipping dogs.

 

Begging plea of the weak can only receive disrespect, violence and oppression as bestowments. Blood and sweat of the weak can only receive insult, blame and abuse as rewards.

Lai Ho, Formosan Poet
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  Quote YanWang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2004 at 16:26

 

 

For Yan Wang, 

I never like that map that you posted.  It is a way too simplified representation of that time.  The map maker might as well just put a single big circule on there that says "Chinese".  I'll find the map that I like and post it, if I can find it online.

whats your point.? dont speak crap and just post it.

Thanks for posting ads from Taiwanese online games, and thanks for the support of Taiwanese gaming industry. 

Finally.... you do know that all your explanation is from after the Han dynasty right?  You should go to that thread too.

well, im expecting your post to explain what chi you was?

Also, here's a site on the Chi-Yu subject written by your people.

http://www.3miao.com/ancestors/ciyou/

Notice that Miao people worships Chi-Yu as an anscester and they people had a tradition of worshipping dogs.

i watched that site before i wrote that post.. i even have more site . you should say something about chi you rather than this..



Edited by YanWang


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  Quote hansioux Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2004 at 16:35

I have talked about Chi-Yu in another thread.  Which I have posted for MengTzu.

And thanks for being so hostile even outside of the Taiwan thread.  You truely are a reasonable person.

Begging plea of the weak can only receive disrespect, violence and oppression as bestowments. Blood and sweat of the weak can only receive insult, blame and abuse as rewards.

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  Quote YanWang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2004 at 16:54
Originally posted by hansioux

I have talked about Chi-Yu in another thread.  Which I have posted for MengTzu.

i will be glad to read it

And thanks for being so hostile even outside of the Taiwan thread.  You truely are a reasonable person.

no ,  but i was answering your previous post, which was to me and without anything about Chi You to say..



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  Quote hansioux Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2004 at 17:03

I wouldn't find the online version of the map from the research paper I once read,

so I made one.

Yellow is the Di group of (Huang Di) and P Zhou dynasty. 

Red is the Qiang group of A Sheng Nung and Yan Di. 

Blue is the i Yi group of ө Tai Hao and Shang dynasty. 

Dark red is the peopel of T] Miao group of E Chi-Yu and L Xia dynasty.

As you can see the overlapping of land.  Yi and Maio (or the E on your map) were the first ones in China.  The Qiang came next, and Di came last.

Prehistoric China



Edited by hansioux
Begging plea of the weak can only receive disrespect, violence and oppression as bestowments. Blood and sweat of the weak can only receive insult, blame and abuse as rewards.

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  Quote demon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2004 at 17:04

Okay, the point of Chiu:

The word for leader

The origin of the character Iron

His victories that set example

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