Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

9th of May celebrations at Moscow!!!

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 3456>
Author
Mosquito View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
Suspended

Joined: 05-Aug-2004
Location: Sarmatia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2537
  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 9th of May celebrations at Moscow!!!
    Posted: 10-May-2005 at 18:13

Originally posted by Spartakus

You have every right to protest against USSR but you must recognize it's contribution to the liberation of Europe from fascism.

My country wasnt liberated. It was actually invaded in 1939 by joined forces of allied Germany and Soviet Union and occupied untill 1989.

Back to Top
Spartakus View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
terörist

Joined: 22-Nov-2004
Location: Greece/Hellas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4489
  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2005 at 07:08
Originally posted by Mixcoatl

As i've said we must understand their cruelty after so much suffering.

Perhaps we must  understand it, but that still doesn't make it justified!
I said it's understandable,not justifyable.
"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
Back to Top
Spartakus View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
terörist

Joined: 22-Nov-2004
Location: Greece/Hellas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4489
  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2005 at 07:09
Originally posted by Mosquito

Originally posted by Spartakus

You have every right to protest against USSR but you must recognize it's contribution to the liberation of Europe from fascism.

My country wasnt liberated. It was actually invaded in 1939 by joined forces of allied Germany and Soviet Union and occupied untill 1989.

Europe is not only Poland you know.
"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
Back to Top
wilpuri View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 13-Mar-2005
Location: Finland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 80
  Quote wilpuri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2005 at 10:52
Nor is it France, Norway, Denmark, Belgium or Holland. Also Bulgaria, Romania, Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Ukraine, Belorus, Hungary, etc are European countries.
Back to Top
Mosquito View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
Suspended

Joined: 05-Aug-2004
Location: Sarmatia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2537
  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2005 at 11:17

Aye, many seems to forget that half of europe has nothing to celebrate.

Personally I dont care for the Romanians and others who sided with Germans. My country was since the first day of war on the allied side. Poland had 4th biggest allied army and inspite of the fact that was occupied was able to field about million soldiers on all the fronts of european theater and even in Africa. Our pilots were more succesful than others in the battle of britain and downed 13 or 14% of all german planes shot down during BoB. Some of our pilots even fought in the US airforce in Asia. But our faithfull allies betrayed us and sold to Soviets. Its a pity that stupid cripple puppet of Stalin who was president of USA didnt die earlier.

Back to Top
Kalevipoeg View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 06-Aug-2004
Location: Estonia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1458
  Quote Kalevipoeg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2005 at 18:56

Yes, why must i celebrate for the Reds victory while it brought me nothing but grief and also, why care about the rescued West , when it sold me out on the first chance it got? We had done nothing to them and had pleeded and sent cries of aid during the years of war and what did we get? The Brittish Secret Service selling out our underground agents to the KGB and our entire land given to the Reds to rape and pillage.

I can't celebrate the blood of my people.

There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible than a man in the depths of an ether binge...
Back to Top
Mosquito View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
Suspended

Joined: 05-Aug-2004
Location: Sarmatia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2537
  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2005 at 19:17
And the stupid bastard Putin dared to invite and decorated with medal polish communist ex dictator gen. Wojciech Jaruzelski. President of Czech Republic was the ony person who protested.
Back to Top
UnholyMenace View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary
Avatar

Joined: 31-Mar-2005
Location: Estonia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 28
  Quote UnholyMenace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2005 at 19:42

I think it was pretty interesting how Estonian interviewer got the chance to ask some questions from president Putin. I guess everybody noticed how nervous he was - i guess he didn't see that coming.

I think that Estonia is making a big mistake by signing that kind of boarder agreement with Russia. We are just giving away a part of our homeland - its like cutting off a finger. Russia needs the agreement a bit more than we do so i think we should dictate the "so called" negotiations and also be the ones making the rules.

Back to Top
Spartakus View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
terörist

Joined: 22-Nov-2004
Location: Greece/Hellas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4489
  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-May-2005 at 05:41
Originally posted by wilpuri

Nor is it France, Norway, Denmark, Belgium or Holland. Also Bulgaria, Romania, Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Ukraine, Belorus, Hungary, etc are European countries.
You forgot Greece,Italy,Austria,Great Britain,Irland,Island and not to mention that the danger of fascism was not only in Europe but in the rest of the world too,since it was a world war,with the terrorizing attacks in the Atlantic Ocean,the front in North Africa and not to include the Japanese operations in the Far-East......
"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
Back to Top
Spartakus View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
terörist

Joined: 22-Nov-2004
Location: Greece/Hellas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4489
  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-May-2005 at 05:51
Originally posted by Kalevipoeg

Yes, why must i celebrate for the Reds victory while it brought me nothing but grief and also, why care about the rescued West , when it sold me out on the first chance it got? We had done nothing to them and had pleeded and sent cries of aid during the years of war and what did we get? The Brittish Secret Service selling out our underground agents to the KGB and our entire land given to the Reds to rape and pillage.

I can't celebrate the blood of my people.

Did your country lived fascism?
"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
Back to Top
Komnenos View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
Retired AE Administrator

Joined: 20-Dec-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4361
  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-May-2005 at 06:11
Originally posted by Mosquito

My country wasnt liberated. It was actually invaded in 1939by joined forces of allied Germany and Soviet Union and occupied untill 1989.




I'm not quite sure, if you indeed compare the Nazi occupation of Poland after 39 with the Soviet hegemony over the Warsaw pact countries from 45 till 89, but if you do, I would feel incredibly insulted if I were , for example, a surviving Polish Jew, whose people suffered incomparably more during the Holocaust and the Nazi terror, than for example the good citiziens of Poland during their relatively comfortable time in the last decades of Communist rule.
So, get this in perspective!

Edited by Komnenos
[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg">
Back to Top
Mosquito View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
Suspended

Joined: 05-Aug-2004
Location: Sarmatia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2537
  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-May-2005 at 11:38
Originally posted by Komnenos

Originally posted by Mosquito

My country wasnt liberated. It was actually invaded in 1939 by joined forces of allied Germany and Soviet Union and occupied untill 1989.



I'm not quite sure, if you are indeed compare the Nazi occupation of Poland after 39 with the Soviet hegemony over the Warsaw pact countries from 45 till 89, but if you do, I would feel incredibly insulted if I were , for example, a surviving Polish Jew, whose people suffered incomparably more during the Holocaust and the Nazi terror, than for example the good citiziens of Poland during their relatively comfortable time in the last decades of Communist rule.
So, get this in perspective!

Untill 1948 in Poland was a civil war. Untill 1956 polish patriots and war heroes were being imprisoned, tortured and murdered. Hundrieds thousands of people were sent to Siberia and only few came back. During 2 WW at least 6 millions polish citisens died, most of them were not military casualties but victims of joined murderous efforts of Germans and Russians. Concentration camps were filled not only with Jews but also with Poles.

Maybe if your family was sent to Siberia and lost there or murdered in prison, you would have different perspective too.

Back to Top
Spartakus View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
terörist

Joined: 22-Nov-2004
Location: Greece/Hellas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4489
  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-May-2005 at 14:02
We do not ask you to celebrate for the Soviets.We ask you to celebrate the end of Nazi Germany and it's terrible empire.That's you should celebrate.What do you prefer?The whole Europe under Nazism,or half free and half communistic?
"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
Back to Top
rj34 View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 14-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
  Quote rj34 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2005 at 16:22
I would defer not to choose between the best of two poisons.  I fear what is happening in Russia today with its own loss of many democratic institutions is attributing to belief that the grass was greener during Soviet times.  Unfortunately, for many Russians and their neighbors this was not the case.  So why celebrate something that failed? 
Back to Top
Kalevipoeg View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 06-Aug-2004
Location: Estonia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1458
  Quote Kalevipoeg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-May-2005 at 17:57

Yes, the USSR was a much more horrifying country in the means of repressions then nazi Germany as the USSR cared not if it was peace or war, killing children, men, women or elderly was no problem, but still they managed to keep the good boy reputation in the eyes of the West, odd indeed!



Edited by Kalevipoeg
There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible than a man in the depths of an ether binge...
Back to Top
Spartakus View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
terörist

Joined: 22-Nov-2004
Location: Greece/Hellas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4489
  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2005 at 11:47
You did not reply to my question,did your country actually lived fascism?
"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
Back to Top
Kalevipoeg View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 06-Aug-2004
Location: Estonia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1458
  Quote Kalevipoeg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2005 at 15:55
You mean repressions? If so then we did live through them, but hardly at the rate of the Poles if compared. The nazi repsressions took the lives of 5,000 Estonians, that is a pretty correct number. So, i have answered your question, atleast i think so!
There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible than a man in the depths of an ether binge...
Back to Top
Mosquito View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
Suspended

Joined: 05-Aug-2004
Location: Sarmatia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2537
  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2005 at 20:16

Well, i admire british PM Tony Blair. I would say he did whole thing in the traditional british way. He didnt come to celebrate 9th may in Moscow. But Russians are not very angry because he said he is busy after elections. He didnt make any political antirussian statement. Others are not very satisfied because he didnt make any political antirussian statement.

Noone is really happy but noone is really unhappy. Britain saved its face again.

Back to Top
Spartakus View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
terörist

Joined: 22-Nov-2004
Location: Greece/Hellas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4489
  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2005 at 12:58
Originally posted by Kalevipoeg

You mean repressions? If so then we did live through them, but hardly at the rate of the Poles if compared. The nazi repsressions took the lives of 5,000 Estonians, that is a pretty correct number. So, i have answered your question, atleast i think so!
And that only in Estonia.So what do you prefer?A whole Europe under Nazism or half free and half communistic?
"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
Back to Top
Kalevipoeg View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 06-Aug-2004
Location: Estonia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1458
  Quote Kalevipoeg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2005 at 14:42

"And that only in Estonia.So what do you prefer?A whole Europe under Nazism or half free and half communistic?"

Communism killed many times more than the number i presented in Estonia. 10,000 civilians were deported to Siberia, another 10,000 was already to be deported two weeks after that (Beria had issued the proper papers), but the German army invaded just in time, if you look at it from the Estonian point of view. Gods know how many were killed behind the bush as the Reds killings are not as popular of material for modern scholars. So, to us communsim was in times worse then nazism during the years of war. The Germans invaded and killed the killers of us, naturally favor was towards the German army in the beginning of the German occupation - logical social behaviour.

What do you mean which do i prefer, of course neither, i can only look at things from the point of that time, and communsim was just as bad or worse for Estonians then nazi shovinism.

There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible than a man in the depths of an ether binge...
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 3456>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.098 seconds.