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Topic ClosedPutin and Hitlers foreign policy
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Sarmat View Drop Down
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Posts: 3113 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Putin and Hitlers foreign policy
    Posted: 05-May-2008 at 00:19
 I see that the discussion is going in the wrong direction in order to avoid further trouble. I'm locking this thread for some time.


Edited by Sarmat12 - 05-May-2008 at 00:47
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Posts: 3113 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-May-2008 at 00:11
Originally posted by Parnell

 Ok, its BS that he just happens to want to protect Russian majority areas in Georgia and east Ukraine. Sure.
 
 
There are no any "Russian majority areas" in Georgia and the only clear "Russian majority area" in Ukraine is Crimea. Honestly, I didn't see anything so far in the direction of "protection" of Crimea? Protection from whom btw?
Russian mass media critisizes Ukraine sometimes for pressing on Russian language. But Putin never said anything about this. The main point of confronation with Ukraine was and is NATO.
 
I'm afraid you're not very familiar with this subject.
 
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Posts: 1409 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2008 at 23:56
Parnell, I think you need to shove your head down a tub of cold water. No Joke.
 
Cheers for the advice mate.
 
This thread is ridiculous. Not only because everyone loves to compare their opponents as the "New Hitler" but because its retarded paranoia. There is a reason why clear headed historians are more appreciated than paranoid, uber-nationalistic, or uber-religioustic historians who bend disproportionately to any one side.
 
Show me once where I compared Putin to Hitler personally. I compared their foreign policy, keen to point out that I wasn't even touching the Jewish, racial superiority issue. What I was saying was that Putin wants to maintain a Russian hedgemony on areas with Russian populations in Eastern Europe. He still views eastern Europe as Russias sphere of interest; a pre world war II concept at its best. No-one here seems to deny that, you all seem to be stuck in the petty pedantry of questioning my motives or saying 'how can you compare anyone to Hitler!??'
 
The former can think clearly in difficult situations, and the latter can only think within confined, narrow parameters. Therefore they are more Hitleristic. So the question is now

Discuss the Similarities between The Author of this thread's close minded paranoia and Hitler's narrow vision of Jews, Slavs. the Handicapped, and non-Aryans in general.
 
Close minded paranoia? Your not contradicting yourself there are ya mate?
 
What ethnic lines?  Of course I deny that BS.
 
Ok, its BS that he just happens to want to protect Russian majority areas in Georgia and east Ukraine. Sure.
 
 the strong comarison with Hitler
 
I already said I wasn't comparing them personally.
 
I am sure Parnell is the type who would believe everything that was fed to him, if he were a character in Orwell's 1984.

Neither can he construct rational thoughts, but I get the feeling he did not think things out clearly while he was creating this thread, and now he needs to grab at straws.
 
Says the guy that thinks it ok to behead people who draw cartoons. Go F*** yourself.
 
LOL
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Posts: 646 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2008 at 20:38
Originally posted by Parnell

 
WTF? Look, I'm getting sick of talking to you. Your taking my quotes out of context and your obviously misreading my posts, and then throw out strawmans left and center.
 
I am sure Parnell is the type who would believe everything that was fed to him, if he were a character in Orwell's 1984.

Neither can he construct rational thoughts, but I get the feeling he did not think things out clearly while he was creating this thread, and now he needs to grab at straws.


Edited by Mughaal - 04-May-2008 at 20:38
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Posts: 3113 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2008 at 20:34
Originally posted by Parnell

 
Their interests are not based on ethnic lines. Russia's are. Do you deny that?
[/QUOTE]
What ethnic lines?  Of course I deny that BS.



Originally posted by Parnell

 
WTF? Look, I'm getting sick of talking to you. Your taking my quotes out of context and your obviously misreading my posts, and then throw out strawmans left and center.
 
You're getting sick? You said that Russia "has interests in Ukraine and Georgia" that's why there are reasons for the strong comarison with Hitler. But there are now any reasons for comparison with Hitler there. I also asked you how Russian interests in former Soviet states are different from let's say British interest in their former areas of influence? The only thing you can say is WTF. Well, indeed, I expect too much of you. I'm afraid Mughal is right
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Posts: 646 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2008 at 20:31
Parnell, I think you need to shove your head down a tub of cold water. No Joke.

This thread is ridiculous. Not only because everyone loves to compare their opponents as the "New Hitler" but because its retarded paranoia. There is a reason why clear headed historians are more appreciated than paranoid, uber-nationalistic, or uber-religioustic historians who bend disproportionately to any one side.

The former can think clearly in difficult situations, and the latter can only think within confined, narrow parameters. Therefore they are more Hitleristic. So the question is now

Discuss the Similarities between The Author of this thread's close minded paranoia and Hitler's narrow vision of Jews, Slavs. the Handicapped, and non-Aryans in general.
Cheers


Edited by Mughaal - 04-May-2008 at 20:32
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Posts: 1409 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2008 at 20:23
blah blah blah Mughaal, what rubbish.

All the global or regional "powers" have some "interests" in other countries. Britain has interests in the Middle East, France has interests in Africa, USA has interests pretty everywhere. Why don't you call them "Hitlerist states" ?


Their interests are not based on ethnic lines. Russia's are. Do you deny that?


Putin is not concerned with "democracy" in Georgia and Urkaine he is concerned with the close ties of these countries with the west, which might mean a potential threat for the security of Russia (NATO). In Georgia BTW opposition leaders are openly murdered and oppressed, so it hardly can be called a "democracy," unless you consider modern Russia a "democracy" as well.


WTF? Look, I'm getting sick of talking to you. Your taking my quotes out of context and your obviously misreading my posts, and then throw out strawmans left and center.
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Posts: 646 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2008 at 20:15
Whoever created this thread suffers from the "Muslim-Weakness" Complex.

Basically, the Muslim Weakness Complex is a tragedy where Muslims will blame America, Israel, Russia, India, or China for their current state whilst overlooking what they are doing to themselves.

Putin is not the one invading foreign nations for reasons he knows not.

A thread that belongs in Junk.

Sounds like crazy talk. I have respect for Putin because he has atleast improved his nation.


Edited by Mughaal - 04-May-2008 at 20:18
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Posts: 3113 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2008 at 20:08

So, what is the comparison? Did Hitler dislike Georgia and Ukraine or what?  I'm afraid you're lost in your own arguments.

All the global or regional "powers" have some "interests" in other countries. Britain has interests in the Middle East, France has interests in Africa, USA has interests pretty everywhere. Why don't you call them "Hitlerist states" ?

Putin is not concerned with "democracy" in Georgia and Urkaine he is concerned with the close ties of these countries with the west, which might mean a potential threat for the security of Russia (NATO). In Georgia BTW opposition leaders are openly murdered and oppressed, so it hardly can be called a "democracy," unless you consider modern Russia a "democracy" as well.
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Posts: 1409 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2008 at 17:46
You all seem to think I think they are in direct parallels. I'm saying there are serious comparisons to be drawn. That is all. (You cannot deny his interests in Georgia and Ukraine, and his antipathy towards the democratic movements there)
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Posts: 2800 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2008 at 16:51
Comparing Hitler and Putin is ridiculous, there is no link, where are Putins racial policies?
 
Putin is a pragmatist, Hitler was a racist ideologist.
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Posts: 3113 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2008 at 15:44
Russia gives citizenship to all the "former citizens of the USSR" regardless of ethnicity. Germany was concerned only with "racially pure" Germans.
Russia also doesn't have and thus can't keep any hegemony in Ukraine and Georgia. Opposing NATO growth doesn't mean hegemony.
Unfortunately, you seem to have a bit distorted view of the current Russian foreign policy.
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Posts: 1409 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2008 at 15:28

My point was that from an abstract position, they both viewed ethnic/racial nationalism as important. Hence why Putin is so keen to give Russian citizenship to peoples in former USSR states. And his interests in keeping Russian hedgemony in Georgia and Ukraine.
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Posts: 1144 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2008 at 15:02
I agree with our Russian members that Putin has not much in common with Hitler except maybe they are both rather short.
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Posts: 1144 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2008 at 14:57
Originally posted by Anton

Originally posted by Sarmat12

I thought we are talking about modern Russia.

For sure Russian empire and the USSR commited many atrocities against different ethnicities these are facts and nobody argues with this.
 
Actually neither Russian empire nor USSR performed strong assimilation politics. Finns, for example, were allowed to study in their own language only after Finland was taken from Sweden.  In USSR time ethnic groups studied their own language, literature and history.  etc.
 
In Poland there was strong assimilation politics. In schools Russian was official language and in state offices as well. It was not diffrent from the Geramn partition though.
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Posts: 2888 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2008 at 23:49
Originally posted by Roberts


Belarus is already russified. If Soviet Union somehow could survive past 1990 - the Ukrainians would be assimilated by 2050, but Baltic countries by the end of 21th century with Latvia being the front runner. The central Asian republics could take more time because of differences in culture.
 
I doubt all these estimations. Even Russians in Ukraine had to learn Ukranian. What kind of assimilation are you talking about? In this respect Soviet policy toward Ukranians, Latvians, Lithuanians or Estonians was much more soft than policies of modern states toward Russians.


Edited by Anton - 01-May-2008 at 23:49
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Posts: 3113 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2008 at 21:15
Originally posted by Roberts


Belarus is already russified. If Soviet Union somehow could survive past 1990 - the Ukrainians would be assimilated by 2050, but Baltic countries by the end of 21th century with Latvia being the front runner. The central Asian republics could take more time because of differences in culture.
 
Well, this assesment just proves Anton's point that the assimilation policies where not that strong. Hypothetical assimilation of Ukrainians by 2050 only, despite that Russia took over Ukraine already in 1654? 400 years it's quite a slow process of assimilation. Smile
 
For comarison. Taiwan was almost complitely Japanized in a less than 50 years of Japanese rule.
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Posts: 3113 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2008 at 21:08
Originally posted by Roberts

I wonder why there weren't huge outcry in Russia's government levels when Turkmenbashi expelled Russians from Turkmenistan?
 
It's just because the Russian regime is corrupted, not competent and not nationalistic at all as some try to claim.
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Posts: 1138 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2008 at 21:01
Originally posted by Sarmat12

Leaders of Central Asia and Azarbajian are self generated. Russia didn't install them. And there are many ethnic Russians in those countries who suffer the same under their rule. A good example is Turkenbashi, who was also a USSR communist party product, but it didn't stop him from disciminating and expelling Russians from Turkmenistan.

I wonder why there weren't huge outcry in Russia's government levels when Turkmenbashi expelled Russians from Turkmenistan?

Otherwise I agree. Russians couldn't do much with central Asian leaders, because the societies and politics in CA states are still essentially based on tribalism and family clans. These structures existed and worked very well even in Soviet times.


Edited by Roberts - 01-May-2008 at 21:01
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Posts: 1138 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2008 at 20:46
Originally posted by Anton

Actually neither Russian empire nor USSR performed strong assimilation politics. Finns, for example, were allowed to study in their own language only after Finland was taken from Sweden.  In USSR time ethnic groups studied their own language, literature and history.  etc.

Belarus is already russified. If Soviet Union somehow could survive past 1990 - the Ukrainians would be assimilated by 2050, but Baltic countries by the end of 21th century with Latvia being the front runner. The central Asian republics could take more time because of differences in culture.
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