Who was the 1st to discover America?

Originally posted by Chilbudios Originally posted by Pinguin Unfortunatelly I don't read Greenlander. I haven't found the sagas in English either; less in Spanish. I just have access to comments on them many experts have done. I've seen some translations in English. Here's one after a quick search: http://www.northvegr.org/lore/flatey/001.php But it's worrying you make such conclusive statements about what Leif thought he discovered without knowing the text. .

I am really disgusted by some of our member's behavior.  I think this needs a cool down period.     

Originally posted by pinguin The genocide on the North American Indian by the white man. I said that very clearly in the other post. Read.

No, you certainly didn't. I asked what genocide Northern Europeans made. In your earlier post you were only talking about the exterminations of the Carribean and Northern American natives. There were no Northern Europeans involved there, just Spanish and, with a stretch, British (although genocide doesn't apply in that case).

Originally posted by pinguin Originally posted by Styrbiorn I don't own you sh*t, so cut this nonsense.   If you want to talk like bus driver, you could do it in another place. I won't accept insults here.

That was not an insult: it was a demand to stop making outrageous claims. An insult is personal; for example telling someone "he is talking like a bus driver". Which is also an insult to all bus drivers, by the way. I agree the sentence was harshly worded, though. I apologize to the moderators, will keep it more civil.

Originally posted by pinguin Originally posted by Styrbiorn The descendants of those who raped, stole and conquered the Americas still live in the Americas. So? What's your point.

Well, you seem to think Europe owes you something, because some people from a very few part of Europe made nasty things in the Americas. But even if you do think that descendants should pay for what their ancestors did - I don't, just for the record, believe in this kind of thinking - then you should look in your own continent instead, because that's where those people lived, and that's where their descendants live.

They were twenty people living in ten shacks, that get the hell out of the Americas to Greenland at the first throuble ....

And now you go ahead and diminishes what other people did. Again. They lived in houses, not shacks. Neither did they leave at first trouble. Should I go ahead and talk about Africans living in huts I would have been banned before I hit the post button.

Please, don't exagerate the merits of Vikings. The Inuits made the same kind of discovery comming from Siberia, 2000 years before the Norse. And from Siberia to Alaska there is about the same distance than between Greenland and Labrador

1) They weren't Vikings, rather farmers and fishermen.
2) 2000 years ago you could walk over Bering's Strait without wetting your feet, it was frequently frozen in.

Anyway, no one is exaggerating the merits. Who said the Norse conquered all of the Americas?
I'm really curious how you in one sentence talk about the glorious Columbus, and in the next demand repatriations. Columbus was one of the worst abusers, and started the whole mess. Shouldn't he be the villain number one?


Edited by Styrbiorn - 26-Apr-2008 at 16:39

Originally posted by pinguin Yeap, the Black Legend ride again. Spaniards were evil, and the Northern Europeans are the good guys. People forget, though that Norther Europeans burn 100 times more witches than infidels the Spanish inquisition

I don't even know what "Black LEgend" you talk about.
Neither did I say the Northern Europeans were angels, they've had their fair share of atrocities. But they were never involved in any 'genocide' in the Americas.

Originally posted by pinguin Curious. If I describe the houses of ancient mapuches I have to say they lived in shacks. If I describe the same kind of house, with the same handcrafship in people of Northern Europe I can't say the same.  That's  weird.

So it was a language problem then? For future reference:

Longhouse:


Shack:

;)

Originally posted by pinguin Please, documentation about your postulate above. People walked to the Americas 2000 years ago? Please prove it.

I never postulated that people walked over: but there's quite a probability. The Bering strait freezes sometimes now, it should have done so more often during the colder past. Don't get it the wrong way though.

First, go to find out about your sources on Columbus. Clean then first from Northern European propaganda and the Black Legend.

What propaganda, what "Black Legend"? Why don't you show me some "Northern European" propaganda, because I do'nt know what you are talking about.

Second, prove that Columbus was the worst.

Never said he was.

Third, Columbus was punished by the crown because his abusses in both Indians and colones and brought in chain to Spain. Columbus was forgotten in life by Spain.

Exactly my point.

Fifth. Columbus has its merit as a pioneer and the man that opened up the Americas to the old world. Nobody can't change that.

No one is trying.

You don't pull down Eric the Red because he was a murderer, but appreciate him as a great explorer. The same with Columbus.

True.


Edited by Styrbiorn - 26-Apr-2008 at 17:24

 

Edited by red clay - 27-Apr-2008 at 04:46

Originally posted by pinguin Now, I started to wonder about the name Greenland. Perhaps that land got that name because its proximity with Labrador. Perhaps Greenland was not only the island itself but also the American territories close to it, and dependent of it. That's the only way, I believe, the name "Green" would have sense.

Greenland was named Greenland in order to attract settlers - furthermore it was discovered decades before America.




Edited by Styrbiorn - 27-Apr-2008 at 12:33

Originally posted by red clay               The reconstruction of L'Anse au Meadows, New Foundland.   There were 8 main structures plus a number of smaller ones.  Population has been put at about 75.  From what's known about the expedition, this may have been only an outpost.

That looks like home!

Originally posted by pinguin That's a good point, Red Clay. I also saw on TV they were only an outpost for summer logging and fishing, because the colony was in Greenland.   Now, I started to wonder about the name Greenland. Perhaps that land got that name because its proximity with Labrador. Perhaps Greenland was not only the island itself but also the American territories close to it, and dependent of it. That's the only way, I believe, the name "Green" would have sense.   Now, it made sense to put the colony in Greenland, because it was closer to Iceland and Europe, from which supplies would come. So Greenland lived from the resources of the Americas such as timber, the local fishing in greenland, cow milking. and the trade with Europe.

well the first europeans to get to America where the vikings, but seriously, the fact that they got there before any other european have almost no impact on the international scenery, its like it never happend.

The thing that makes Columbus so important its not wether he was first or not, but that his discovery (wether he knew or not if it was a new continent) did have a massive impact on the international scene, yes it was not Asia, but the sole believe that it was the new route to the far east got every european nation exited and sending ships over the sea.

we know how the rest of the story goes.

I dont see whats so important about claiming "we got there first"

Originally posted by pinguin Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy ...They made a clear distinction between Greenland and Vinland. They also used Vinland for timber so they could keep the Greenland settlements going.   By the way, Greenland is considered apart of North America by geogrophy. Due to the inhabitants though, they are closer to Europe. So in that regard, the Norse did discover North America for Europe. And the idea of Vinland never disappeared from what I understand, even though the Norse left it.   The Norse discovered Greenland and Newfoundland for Europe. They hardly discovered North America at all.

The same about Colombo;)