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Probable war battles.

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Julius Augustus View Drop Down
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  Quote Julius Augustus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Probable war battles.
    Posted: 16-Apr-2008 at 04:34
I am just wondering if two big armies meet up for battle, who will win

here are my army probable battles

Iran versus US in Iran
Italy versus Greece in Greece
Philippines versus Afghanistan in Vietnam
China versus Russia in Siberia

who will win
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2008 at 13:56
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  Quote Julius Augustus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2008 at 14:26
and without a doubt, you are right paul, by the way, do you think I should change my life savings to canadian? 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2008 at 15:39

5 US army divisions  destroys Iranian military in about 2 weeks. How long the occupation lasts is anybodys guess.

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  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2008 at 22:59
Originally posted by Sparten

5 US army divisions  destroys Iranian military in about 2 weeks. How long the occupation lasts is anybodys guess.

 
It isn't the ground forces.  It is the air supremacy.  As far as occupation, forget it.  As long as the littoral of the Gulf stays clear for the transit of petroleum, that is all that matters.  Then it is the naval supremacy.
 
 
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2008 at 23:11

What do you mean: ground force vs. ground force? or military vs military?  On an open field or taking geographical factors into account?  I can assure you that Iran would not field in a conventional head on military vs military confrontation.  On the open field it's no contest in Iran vs US military vs military.  

Would you include the IRGC (Sepah) as well as Artesh?  Ground force vs ground force, I am not so sure, I think an offensive could be halted given that the technological gap there is not as significant without the inclusion of US air assets. 
 
Taking littoral and assymetrical factors into account such as the US situation in Iraq and Afghanistan and Iran's capability to hit logistical lines.  hmmm.
 
I think in difficult terrain the US military would make little to no headway against an IRGC division.
 
 


Edited by Zagros - 16-Apr-2008 at 23:14
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2008 at 23:13
Originally posted by Sparten

5 US army divisions  destroys Iranian military in about 2 weeks. How long the occupation lasts is anybodys guess.

 
I recently spoke with someone who had viewed UAV footage of a US column in Iraq - they were like sitting ducks without air support for long ranged artillery and could in no way deal with the UAV of which they were aware.
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  Quote konstantinius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Apr-2008 at 02:03
Originally posted by Sparten

5 US army divisions  destroys Iranian military in about 2 weeks. How long the occupation lasts is anybodys guess.



We don't have 5 divisions. They're all in IraqWink
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  Quote konstantinius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Apr-2008 at 02:06
Originally posted by Julius Augustus

I am just wondering if two big armies meet up for battle, who will win

here are my army probable battles

Iran versus US in Iran
Italy versus Greece in Greece
Philippines versus Afghanistan in Vietnam
China versus Russia in Siberia

who will win


Italy vs. Greece  already happened in WW II

Philippines vs. Afghanistan will never happen because they're both too broke to take their troops to Vietnam

China vs. Russia will be a nuclear holocaust: we all loose

US vs. Iran: wait a few more years and we'll seeWink
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  Quote Jonathan4290 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Apr-2008 at 04:48

Europe won't go to war with itself for a long, long time with the exception of the Balkans.

Afghanistan barely has a police force so that one won't happen.
 
China and Russia wouldn't be a nukefest because each side is smart enough to know that it would be a holocaust. I'd be very interested in this result though but I'd give the edge to Russia because they've had a technological army alot longer than China although China's generals seem to be very interested in high tech wars with computers.
 
I think the US could crush Iran with a few carrier battle groups assuming it never tried to occupy it. Even in a ground war, the US would just need to scrap enough troops to attack atleast one of Iran's huge flanks from Afghanistan or Iraq.
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  Quote xristar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Apr-2008 at 21:22
I think the US could crush Iran with a few carrier battle groups assuming it never tried to occupy it. Even in a ground war, the US would just need to scrap enough troops to attack atleast one of Iran's huge flanks from Afghanistan or Iraq.

The US can't deploy heavy formations to Afghanistan, as equipment is transported to Afghanistan only with airplanes.
The point is exactly that the US DON'T have enough troops. Iran is a much bigger country, both in area and in population thatn Iraq. It also has a more homogenous population, for as far as I know, more than 50% of its 70 million population are persian shiites. For comparison, only a 20% or so of Iraq were sunnis. So, inevitably, Iran's army will have a better morale than Iraq's, which had thousands of desertations.
Additionally, in contrast with Iraq, Iran does actually have a navy.
I think the US, with thier total air supermacy, will be able to defeat Iran. But it will more difficult than defeating Iraq.

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  Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Apr-2008 at 21:43
Hello to you all
 
Didn't the US have more than 5 divisions when they invaded Iraq and yet they never pascified the country and it took them almost one month to defeat 3 republican guard divisions with Iraqis making every stupid mistake in the book? The US needs at least 5 field armies to properly defeat Iran's armed forces that is of course if the Iranians have't already distroyed all the oil installation in the gulf by the time the US invaded.
 
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  Quote Ponce de Leon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Apr-2008 at 22:31
If you give China 100 years to develop, I believe it will have the capacity to control half of the world's population. Russia's economy so far is not growing as fast as China's and if these rates continue I believe China can defeat Russia no problem. Besides China already has a lot of it's own people living in Russia already. They would probably snap on their army gear and turn on their Russian hosts in a heartbeat.
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  Quote IDonT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2008 at 01:59
Originally posted by Al Jassas

Hello to you all
 
Didn't the US have more than 5 divisions when they invaded Iraq and yet they never pascified the country and it took them almost one month to defeat 3 republican guard divisions with Iraqis making every stupid mistake in the book? The US needs at least 5 field armies to properly defeat Iran's armed forces that is of course if the Iranians have't already distroyed all the oil installation in the gulf by the time the US invaded.
 
AL-Jassas


No, the US invaded Iraq with 3rd Mechanized Infantry Division supported by the 101st Air-Assault division as the main thrust.  The 1st marine division thrust through the Rt. 1.  The main thrust was made by only 2 divisions (3rd Mechanized and 1st Marine), with another division (101st)  and an independent Marine Brigade to protect the lines of communications.

The entire invasion force took the fastest armored advance in the history of warfare.  The invasion started in March 20th, Baghdad fell in April 9th -  hardly a month.  All organized resistance fall apart after Baghdad fell, and replaced by an insurgency. 

In a conventional war Iranian organized armed forces will probably collapse within 1 or 2 weeks.  The US will have air superiority and freedom of movement.  Unconventional war is another matter.  Iranian forces does have the capabilities to inflict casualties but they do not have the capability to render an entire US armored division "combat ineffective."

Fighting a conventional war against the US is foolish.  Look at how Iraqi army fared in Gulf War I.  Iran fought the Iraqi to a stalemate for 8 years, the US took apart that same army in 100 hours with minimal (unheard of) losses.
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  Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2008 at 06:50
Hello to you all
 
The last time an invading army said the same thing about Iran, the war went for a brutal 8 years. I doubt that the US army which spent a month clearing Fallojah (which had no civilian population and just 3000 fighters) with 20 000 men will be able to reach Tehran, or even comlete the conquest of Ahvaz. The former commander of Al-Madinah division of the republican guard said the the total number of Iraqi troops who stood between the US army and Baghdad throughout the the war was no more than 25000 men compared with the 150 000 men the US had. As for battles, all the units of the US army were engaged, the US army went for Baghdad directly bypassing any resistance, like that of Nasiriyah, by keeping part of the force there. Iraq was not fully taken untill about 25th of April.
 
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  Quote Julius Augustus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2008 at 08:44
Originally posted by konstantinius

Originally posted by Julius Augustus

I am just wondering if two big armies meet up for battle, who will win

here are my army probable battles

Iran versus US in Iran
Italy versus Greece in Greece
Philippines versus Afghanistan in Vietnam
China versus Russia in Siberia

who will win


US vs. Iran: wait a few more years and we'll seeWink


hehehe, I concur.

irans air force is worth crap.

konstantinius, how about now in regards to italy versus greece, I know italy has its own weaponries compared to greece all us bought stuff.
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  Quote Julius Augustus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2008 at 09:01
Originally posted by IDonT

Originally posted by Al Jassas

Hello to you all
 
Didn't the US have more than 5 divisions when they invaded Iraq and yet they never pascified the country and it took them almost one month to defeat 3 republican guard divisions with Iraqis making every stupid mistake in the book? The US needs at least 5 field armies to properly defeat Iran's armed forces that is of course if the Iranians have't already distroyed all the oil installation in the gulf by the time the US invaded.
 
AL-Jassas


Fighting a conventional war against the US is foolish.  Look at how Iraqi army fared in Gulf War I.  Iran fought the Iraqi to a stalemate for 8 years, the US took apart that same army in 100 hours with minimal (unheard of) losses.


not quite, the army the US had fought wasnt the same army the Iranians did, at that time of the first Persian gulf war,  Iraq had a better army than most people think, it was well verse in  tactics and they did study the Iranian government so well that in essence its attack after the revolution would have destroyed any country (that was in the same state as Iran was) if not for the fervor the Ayatollah set to the people of Iran at that time. Iran didnt have the same arm strength it has today compared to before, their f14 force didnt have supplies to fix their armaments, they had no real navy to speak of, they just got of from a revolution, they killed most of the shah's army personel (and they had to beg the other pilots to fight for iran even though most of those guys were sentenced to death).

After the Iran-Iraq war, Iraq's army was already tired, its armaments were not the same as before, they lost most veteran pesonels and etc. their is no doubt US would still would have destroyed Iraq but it might have taken an extra week to two if they fought during that time.

Iran has three advantages against US, number one is religion, fervor--they can send suicide attacks from all corners, number two is logistics, and the third is foresight,.
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2008 at 10:02
Originally posted by Zagros

I recently spoke with someone who had viewed UAV footage of a US column in Iraq - they were like sitting ducks without air support for long ranged artillery and could in no way deal with the UAV of which they were aware.

Who had the UAV?
Originally posted by Ponce

If you give China 100 years to develop, I believe it will have the capacity to control half of the world's population.

That's easy. Get rid of the 1 child policy.
Originally posted by Julius


Iran has three advantages against US, number one is religion, fervor--they can send suicide attacks from all corners, number two is logistics, and the third is foresight,.

How much foresight does Ahmedinejad have?

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  Quote Julius Augustus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2008 at 11:05
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

Originally posted by Zagros

I recently spoke with someone who had viewed UAV footage of a US column in Iraq - they were like sitting ducks without air support for long ranged artillery and could in no way deal with the UAV of which they were aware.

Who had the UAV?
Originally posted by Ponce

If you give China 100 years to develop, I believe it will have the capacity to control half of the world's population.

That's easy. Get rid of the 1 child policy.
Originally posted by Julius


Iran has three advantages against US, number one is religion, fervor--they can send suicide attacks from all corners, number two is logistics, and the third is foresight,.

How much foresight does Ahmedinejad have?



Dont know Omar, I think the guy smokes opium to much he thinks he does, I should have elaborated, what I meant is that Iran knows of imminent attack hence the foresight mention.
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2008 at 12:39
Well considering the US will also know that it intends to attack* I don't think that is an advantage. Unless you could pull some sort of reverse surprise invasion, where the invadees surprise the invaders by getting themselves invaded by the invaders, therby catching the invaders unaware


*Well, probably, I'm not entire convinced of the sanity of the US command anymore.


Edited by Omar al Hashim - 21-Apr-2008 at 12:39
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