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German 4th Panzer-Divi. battle involvement - 1939

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Domen View Drop Down

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  Quote Domen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: German 4th Panzer-Divi. battle involvement - 1939
    Posted: 13-Apr-2008 at 23:52
1. Battle-Road:

The most important battles of the 4th Panzer-Division in Poland were:

Mokra (1. IX), Ostrowie-Kozinka (2-3 IX), forcing Warta River near Szczepolice, attacking west of Radomsko (3 IX), Forcing Widawka River (night 3/4 IX), (4 IX in the morning) - the just finished 16to-bridge collapses and the already removed 8to-bridge has to be established again - the bridge at Plawno is too weak and the elements sent there have to be redirected via Gidle, (4 IX) Polish bombers (from Bombers Brigade) drop bombs on columns of the division; The battle of Borowskie Mountains and Borowa city (2-6 IX; 4. P-D took part from 4. IX), "Sturmfahrt auf Warschau", avoiding the enemy and encountering weak resistance, 40 km behind the frontline: advancing along Ujazd - Lubochnia - Rawa Mazowiecka line (6-7 IX) - Rawa Mazowiecka is 115 km from Warsaw; "Vorwrts nach Warschau" (8 IX).

In the late evening of 8 IX the first unit of the division (35. P-R) arrives near Warsaw and captures Raszyn - then it attacks Warsaw - however Warsaw is not prepared for defense, the division is repulsed under heavy casulaties. It withdraws. 9 IX - the rest of the division comes, second storm on Warsaw which takes all day - terribly heavy casualties (45 tanks completely lost, more than 60 damaged, many dozens trucks with dead and wounded soldiers). In the evening the division withdraws.

Night of 9/10 and 10 IX - heavy fighting for the suburbs of Warsaw, many kms behind the frontline, several succesfull Polish counterattacks couse heavy losses to both sides. Several tanks destroyed (1 by artillery fire, few by Polish 7 TP tank attacks from Warsaw). The division is endangerred of being encircled by Polish forces (the ones coming forward Mszczonw and those from the west - Army "Ldź").

11 IX - 31. Kaniowski Riflemen Infantry Regiment attacks German backs in and around Mszczonw - 14 tanks, 32 armoured transporters, many other vehicles - burned or destroyed (mostly using grenades, Molotov-Coctiles, explosives and gasoline).

12 IX - heavy battles in the outskirts of Warsaw and in the area near Warsaw, Palmiry and Mszczonw. Unsuccesfull Polish counterattacks from Warsaw with use of infantry / artillery / tanks / mortars. Hauptmann Schnell's unit destroys 7 Polish tanks. 82nd Infanterie Regiment receives order to attack Poles at Mszczonw - but it can't move from the defensive lines near Warsaw because it's involved in heavy defensive fights and hardly manage not to break and be defeated.

12-13 IX some units of Army "Łdź" which are withdrawing to Warsaw and Modlin, attack the positions of the division, but finally go to Modlin.

13 IX - 35. Panzer-Regiment withdraws from nearbyhood of Warsaw to regroup in Strzykuły - then it attacks together with SS Leibstandarte "Adolf Hitler" towards Błonie, at 14:30. During the attack Kaputy are captured, prisoners taken, Polish artillery pieces and AT-guns run over. Lots of amunition captured. Fights continue for several hours - in early night, in the darkness, Błonie are taken.

14 IX - in the meantime 31st Infanterie-Division comes to retook previous regimental positions, and the 35. P-R is orderred to attack together with LAH and 12th Infanterie-Regiment towards Bzura. Other units of the division are to protect the Bzura line and defend it from Poles.

The division comes to the battle of Bzura and Puszcza Kampinoska (9-24 IX) on 15th of September.

On 16th of September - most part of the division and LAH start massive counterattack, together with other German divisions, against Polish forces of Army "Poznań" and Army "Pomorze" trapped in Bzura pocket (and trying to break through to the east).

Division fights in Mlodzieszki-Ruszyn-Ruszki-Bibijampol-Adampol area. Near Adampol the whole 6th Tanks Company is destroyed by Polish AT fire from the nearby forest. Leutnant Diebish dies, Leutnant Cossel is heavily wounded. Near Ruszki the attack fails quickly after short, dramatic fight with heavy casualties on both sides.

1st Panzer Division which also attacks, but from other direction, is defeated and encircled - most units are crushed or in panic. The division manage to get together and break through the front to German lines, but it tooks 1 day to even few days, for some units.

4th Panzer Division attack is also rejected - heavy losses sustained. Poles attack across the Bzura river, running over 36. Pz-Reg. and some other units of the division which were defending in Brochw-Sochaczew region along the Bzura River - Germans suffer huge losses, Poles - enormous losses. But Poles break through and Germans are encircled and partially crushed.

17th September - heavy fighting of 4th Panzer Division and SS Leibstandarte near Mistrewice and Juljopol. Strenght of the 35. P-R in the evening is only 60 tanks, decreases during the next few days.

18. IX - 36. P-R and most of divisional units involved in heavy fighting along the Bzura line and almost destroyed by Poles. Part of Panzerabwehr-Abteilung forces was destroyed by Polish offensive across Bzura. 35. Panzer-Regiments fights small, succesfull defensive skirmishes. Orders come at midnight 18/19 IX - 35. P-R and LAH are ordered to rescue the majority of the 4th P-D.

19 IX - near Hilarw heavy fights, Poles are pushed back. Near Śladw succes - 3,000 prisoners from encircled unit, more than 1,000 German prisoners realeased from captivity. Total of 4,000 prisoners taken and Poles push back north, encirclement taken off.

Most part of the division is rescued - division survived but suffered heavy losses.

The division is unable to continue fight. Fortunately Poles in the area are no longer able to organise a strong attack. Some Polish units broke through to Kampinoskie Forests (and there heavy battles are fought - Polish forces slowly move forward towards Warsaw and Modlin, pushing back Germans but suffering heavy losses), rest were encircled west of Bzura river - and will be destroyed during the next few days by another massive-offensive combined with strong air-attacks of Bombers fleet.

Some units of the division are fighting near Bzura and Kampinos untill 24th of IX, suffering losses - finally the whole division is withdrawed from the front because of heavy casualties, to Niedderheim near Rhein River (there it is reinforced and reorganized, and then send to Western Front to protect it from eventuall French offensive).

2. Casualties:

4th Panzer-Division was among those German units which suffered the most during the Polish campaign (however, some suffered more badly), and was also among those units who captured the greatest number of prisoners and fought with great courage and bravery.

At the end of the 17th of IX 1939, after seventeen days of constant fighting, German 4th Panzer Division had only around 100 tanks (60 tanks in Panzer-Regiment 35. and around 40 tanks in P-R 36.). On 1. September it had 341 tanks (177 in P-R 35. & 164 in P-R 36.)

During the next few days this number decreased. At night from 19. to 20. IX the main part of the div. was withdrawed to Sochaczew because it was unable to continue fighting. Other units fought in Bzura-Kampinos region untill 24. of IX - then the division was withdrawed from the Polish front and it didn't participate in final battles of the campaign.

According to German combat reports between 1st and 19th of September 1939 the 4th Panzer-Division lost 1,777 men (including 95 officers) KIA, MIA & WIA (all MIAs were reported dead or missed forever later).

The Panzer-Regiment 35. lost 43 KIA and 9 MIA between 1st and 19th of IX.

Between 20th and 24th of September it lost another 21 KIA and 2 MIA (according to Eberbach, the commander of the regiment, memories). Other units were also suffering casualties then.

4th Panzer-Div. captured almost 20,000 prisoners in Poland, according to German sources.

3. Awards and Crimes:

Soldiers of the division received: 1 Knight Cross, 41 first class Iron Crosses and 764 second class Iron Crosses for the Polish campaign.

Soldiers of the 4th Panzer Division murderred 256 Polish POWs after taking prisoner, and 106 civilians in Śladw (near Bzura river). In total they murderred more than 200 civilians and unknown number of prisoners of war (few hundreads, more than 300).

Units of the division often used Polish civilians and POWs (most of them were wounded POWs) as "living shields" - for the first time during the battle of Mokra.

On 8th of September, soon after capturing Mszczonw and before Polish attack on it, soldiers of the division murderred 11 Polish POWs there.
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rider View Drop Down


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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2008 at 17:08
Nice list, but what exactly is this supposed to give us? Just a nice overview or did you want to start a deeper discussion?
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konstantinius View Drop Down

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  Quote konstantinius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2008 at 04:05
Hmm, all this goes to those who claim that Poland was a picnic campaign for the Germans. Any history of the 4th in Russia?
" I do disagree with what you say but I'll defend to my death your right to do so."
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2008 at 20:38
no one says the Wehrmacht didn't sustained casualties during the campaign. no one says the Polish Army didn't fought bravely and was beaten without strong ressistance. i have yet to see the campaign without a signle casualty. the problem is, the numbers of losses given by the Wehrmacht about the Polish campaign are most likely lowe than they really were. at the end of the day however, the Wehrmacht still pretty much overrun Poland in no time with no serious defeat.
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Domen View Drop Down

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  Quote Domen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Oct-2008 at 15:11

While writing this text I was basing mainly on German sources – especcialy three most important:


Memories of Colonel Eberbach:


German daily reports from excellent Christoph’s Avender site called “World War II day by day”.


German tank casualties in Poland were very similar to German tank casualties suffered during “Operation Zitadelle” in 1943.


Number of tanks available for the German Panzer-Regiment 35. is given according to colonel Eberbach and according to daily reports from Christoph’s Avender site.


As I also managed to establish – basing on German and Polish sources (usually my method was to compare sources carefully) – on 16/17th of September – short before the Soviet Agression on Poland – strength of many other divisions was similar.


For example – on 18th of September 2. Panzer-Division had got around 115 – 120 tanks.


As Polish reports mention – on 18th of September Polish forces near Tomaszów Lubelski were attacked by around 80 German tanks from 2. Panzer-Division from direction Rawa Ruska – Tomaszow Lubelski – it was during the biggest Panzer-battle of September campaign, which took place between 17th and 20th of September (around 100 Polish AFVs versus around 100 German AFVs).


Polish combat reports does not mention exactly what units attacked towards Tomaszow from direction Rawa Ruska – they say only that it was “strong unit from 2. Panzer-Division”.


But as I found in German sources – there were attacking three German tank battalions (the whole Panzer-Regiment 4. and II. battalion from Panzer-Regiment 4.).


So I managed to establish that those three battalions had got around 80 tanks on 18th of September.


By estimation we can come to a conclusion that the whole division had got around 115 – 120 tanks (inlcuding tanks from both Panzer-Regiments – 4 battalions in total - and additional 9 tanks which were attached to Kampfgruppe “Seidensticker” on 15th of September).


By similar estimation I established, that 4. Light Division had got in total around 20 Armoured Fighting Vehicles – tanks and armoured cars - on 18th of September – including those in tank company (which was formed from rest of tanks of every three divisional companies) and those in II. Pz.Spah-Abteilung of 1. Aufklarungsregiment (OdeB on 1st of September – 30 armoured cars).


Using the same method I attempted to establish estimated strength of German 3. Panzer-Division as for 12th of September – and – we can say by the way – I managed to establish estimated German tank casualties of the division during the battle in Corridor.


While establishing casualties of 3rd Panzer-Division and strenght of it in different periods of the campaign I was also basing – among other sources – on Kenneth Macksey’s “Guderian”.


He is giving number of tank casualties reported by German 4th Army – the only unit armed with tanks in the German 4th Army was 3. Panzer-Division.


In similar way – and also basing on different sources - I established casualties of other divisions.


In total I came to a conclusion that by the end of their participation in Polish campaign, German armored units had got in total around 1400 – 1200 tanks less than at the beginning of the campaign (+ Soviet casualties – around 470 tanks).


Very similar armor casualties were suffered by Germans during “Operation Zitadelle”.


By the end of “Operation Zitadelle” German had got 1485 operatable tanks, and at the beginning of it – 2730. There was a loss of 1245 tanks.


“Totalshaden” were later established as 248 tanks (while in Poland “Totalshaden” according to official German reports – which are most probably incomplete - are given between 236 and 289).


To this number – in Poland – we must add Soviet “Totalshaden” – according to official Soviet sources – 43 tanks.


It gives a total number of armor casualties inflicted by Poland to their both agressors – Soviets and Germans – as 1870 – 1670 tanks, including at least 279 – 332 as “Totalshaden” (including 3 “Totalshaden” in the battle of Prokhorovka).


In “Operation Zitadelle” Russia inflicted armor casualties – 1245 tanks including 248 as “Totalshaden”.


German men losses however – were much higher in Poland, than in “Operation Zitadelle”.


Let’s also compare both figures – from September Campaign and Operation Zitadelle – with average German monthly “Totalshaden” casualties on ALL FRONTS of WW II in the following months: July, August and September of 1944.


Average German monthly “Totalshaden” casualties in July, August and September of 1944 were:


500 tanks per month – on all fronts and all combat theatres.

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Domen View Drop Down

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  Quote Domen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Oct-2008 at 15:36
How is it posible to edit own posts on this forum ???
Memories of Colonel Eberbach:

Oberstleutenant Eberbach  Panzer-Regiment 35 Regiments-Kommandeur - memories titled:


Pre-Polish campaign memories


1st September – first day of war’s memories


Regiment babtised in fire – memories


"Sturmfahrt auf Warschau"


"Die Vernichtungsschlacht an der Bzura"


"In Warschau abgeschossen"


After the Polish campaign-memories
Let's come back for a moment to casualties of German armor:
10th Panzer-Division lost - according to German reports - 77 tanks in Poland.
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Domen View Drop Down

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  Quote Domen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Oct-2008 at 16:05

the problem is, the numbers of losses given by the Wehrmacht about the Polish campaign are most likely lower than they really were.


Yes – they are for shure incomplete (they are not given up to the end of campaign – on 6th / 8th of October 1939 – and they are also not given for all units, which participated in the campaign).


For example – German archive with archival materials of VII Armee Corps and 5. Panzer-Division for the Polish Campaign - which were in Potsdam – was destroyed during the World War II.


Fortunately I managed to establish armor casualties of this division in the battle of Pszczyna (1. – 4. September 1939) – which was probably the most bloody battle of this division (at least for its Panzer-units) in the Polish campaign. I was basing on excellent, new book of Polish historian Janusz Ryt – “Bitwa Pszczyńska 1939” – and on Kriegstagebuch of 5. Panzer-Division and memories of Polish and German soldiers from this battle (comparing them).


Exact German tank casualties and Polish men and gun (weapons) casualties in the battle of Pszczyna – as I established them – I put on wikipedia – they can be found here in the table which I put below the article:


No casualties of this Corps are included in any official statistics of casualties for the Polish Campaign – and this corps could probably suffer probably the highest casualties of all German corpses (especcialy SS “Germania”, 8. and 28. Infanteriedivisionen).


If it comes to men losses - in my opininion most probably German military casualties in Poland (not including “V Column”, Police, and para-military organizations like Selbschutz, Freikorps) – were around 22,500 – 25,000 Killed in Action (including Missing in Action, never found).


at the end of the day however, the Wehrmacht still pretty much overrun Poland in no time with no serious defeat.


Not so quickly and not alone – but with help of the Red Army.


The biggest and most important battle of the campaign (more than 100,000 soldiers participating in it on every of three sides – Polish, German and Soviet - took place between 17th and 28th of September in Tomaszow Lubelski region.


The battle of Tomaszow Lubelski – which is a very forgotten battle, even in Polish historiography – was also the best - and on the biggest scale - example of Soviet – German direct tactical and operational cooperation - against common enemy – Polish army - on the battlefield in modern world’s history.


The Soviet – German cooperation in the battle of Tomaszow Lubelski started on 20th of September and lasted up to the end of the battle – soon I will post my sources for this statement.


But even before 20th of September – because since 18th of September – the Soviet agression had strong influence on the course of the battle (because in the night from 17/18 IX - the Germans changed orders for their 2. Panzer-Division – reason was movement of the Soviet forces – and ordered it to stop its mission, and withdraw to the region Rawa Ruska city – which caused, that later – on 18th of September – it managed to be on time in – yet almost in 100% captured by Poles - Tomaszow with its relief for seriously endangered and practically – yet defeated – 4. Leichte-Division).


Let’s come back to those evidences and sources about the German – Soviet direct tactical cooperation in the battle of Tomaszów Lubelski since 20th of Septmber – I have much more of them – but here is the first – and most interesting I think – one:


The battle of Tomaszow Lubelski – second biggest battle of the Second World War untill 1941 and the best example of Russian – German tactical and operational military cooperation in modern world’s history.

With this data I want begin the thread about the forgotten, big battle - the battle of Tomascow Lubelski (17 - 27 IX 1939) - the second biggest battle of the Polish campaign with over 100,000 soldiers participating in it on every of three sides (Polish, German, Soviet), during which also the biggest Panzer battle in world's history untill that moment took place - with around 100 tanks, tankettes and armoured cars on both Polish and German sides participating in it, fighting with each other for three days (18 - 20. IX 1939).

The biggest Soviet-German military coopertaion on the battlefields in the Second World War:

Fragment from the Battle Diary of German VII Armee Korps – 20th of September 1939:

“Military Support”:

When units of Polish army were pressing forward to the west from the region of fierce fighting near Łabunie, and seriously disrupted withdrawal of the division towards the first German-Soviet demarcationline, Corps sent one of artillery commanders to Russians as an envoy. He had to send them greetings and establish contact [with Russian forces].

At the entrance to the city of Zamość waited a horseman in civilian clothes with red band on arm: Pole in Russian service. Overtaking in gallop the German envoys, he led them to the Russian headquarters, located in high, bright-white city hall in Zamość.

"High, bright-white" City Hall in Zamość (modern-day photo):

[…] [In Russian headquarters located in high, bright-white city hall in Zamość] [German] Colonel pass on printed in Russian language welcoming speech [to the Russians]. [Russian] Komissar reads it carefully, as an answer he expresses deep gratitude, he adds however, that [the main] headquarters of the Russian Corps is located not in Zamość, but in a village, 3 hours away from Zamość.

[…] After friendly goodbye, several Russian officers in cars accompanied the Germans [in way from Zamość] to the general [of the Russian Corps].

Characteristic for the new friendship is an event from the passage route. That is, when it started to rain, Russians immediately in a pleasant way invited German envoys to take seats in their roofed cars.

[…] Young, fair-haired [Russian] officer welcomes German officers and leads them to the general. Welcome is warm. [Russian] Commander yet in his first words voices his joy because of signing the German-Russian pact. He has full understanding for [German] request on military support [of the Russian side]. He promises [to give] every realisable help [to the Germans].

[…] Afterwards, the general invites German colonel and his companions for a meal. But before, after an animated discussion, people went to the dining room, the Russian commander clasped both his hands in grip and said:

"Russia and Germany go together, this is a guarantee of peace for Europe!" […]”

This photo was taken on that day – on 20th of September 1939: 

Description under the photo says:

“Region of Zamość, 20th of September 1939: discussion of a situation in Soviet headquarters of the Corps." 


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Domen View Drop Down

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  Quote Domen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Oct-2008 at 16:55
Of course places of those photos should be reversed ;).
Second photo fits for first description and first photo for second description...
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Domen View Drop Down

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  Quote Domen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2009 at 17:38
And here is the battle calendar of 5. Panzer-Division in the Polish Campaign:

1. Breakout in Western Galicia - 01.09.1939 - 04.09.1939;
a) Fierce battle of Pszczyna against Polish 6. Infantry Division - 01.09.1939 - 04.09.1939*;
2. Pursuit fightings towards the Nida river - 04.09.1939 - 07 / 08.09.1939;
a) Combats at the section of Przemsza river near Chełmek;
b) Battle of Auschwitz;
c) Pursuit fightings towards the Nida river north of Krakow and north of Vistula river;
d) Battle of the Nida river and forcing the river near Pinczow;
3. Encircling battle south of Radom - 08.09.1939 - 10.09.1939 / 11.09.1939;
a) Combats against Polish 22. Infantry Division in the area Busko - Bronina - Stopnica - Staszow - Rytwiany
4. Approaching the Vistula river near Opatow, Ozarow and Sandomir - 10.09.1939 - 11.09.1939;
5. Withdrawal from the area near Sandomir, transfering the division to the southern section of the Army frontline, pursuit fightings towards Przemysl - 10.09.1939 / 11.09.1939 - 17.09.1939;
a) Withdrawal & transfering to the area south of Bochnia;
b) Pursuit fightings towards Przemysl - up to 17.09.1939;
6. Planned operation against Lemberg and Romanian Bridgehead - 17.09.1939 in the morning;
a) 17.09.1939 at 10:15 - orders for the division to: move to the area east of Przemysl, storm Lwow since 18.09, advance across Lwow towards the eastern suburbs of the city, later attack towards either Tarnopol or Stanislawow;
b) 17.09.1939 at 12:00 - headquarters of the Corps cancelled the previous orders due to the information about the Soviet Invasion of Poland and planned movements & operations of Soviet units against Polish forces including Lwow;
7. Battles west and south-west of Lemberg;
a) Combats of 15. Panzer-Regiment near Rzesna Ruska, Hołosko and Brzuchowice - 18.09.1939 - 20.09.1939;
b) Fights near Sambor, Drohobycz and Stryj - 18.09.1939 - 20.09.1939;
8. Withdrawal behind the river San towards the demarcation line;


*Battle of Pszczyna 01.09.1939 - 04.09.1939:


1. Frontier combats. Capturing Rybnik and Zory;
a) Northern Column - Sumina, Chwalecice, Rybnik - 4:45 - 10:00
b) Southern Column - Raciborz, Sumina, Rydultowy, Radlin - 4:45 - 8:00
c) Southern Column - Mszana, Jastrzebie, Wisla Wielka, Warszowice - 8:00 - 10:00
d) Southern Column - Brzezce - 10:00 - 11:00
e) Northern Column - Rowien, Zory, Kleszczow - 10:00 - 14:00
f) Southern Column - Jastrzebie, Brzezce - 11:00 - 14:00
2. 5th Panzer-Division defeated in the battle against the Polish protruding defensive position;
a) Both Columns - initial operations against the Polish protruding defensive position - 10:30 - 14:00
b) Both Columns - assault against the line Brzezce - Wisla Wielka, Polish counterattack, German defeat - 14:00 - 23:00

Night 01.09.1939 / 02.09.1939:

1. Recovering, regrouping, reorganizing, reinforcements, supplies (ammunition and fuel), making new plans for the next day


1. Battle against the Polish defensive position - 8:30 - 14:00:
Phase 1 - Successful breakout and combats for Western Cwiklice - 8:30 - 11:00
Phase 2 - Combats for Stara Wies - 11:00 - 11:20
Phase 3 - Polish counterattack (it failed, seized and encircled by Panzers in the open field) - 11:20 - 13:00
2. German operational exploitation - 13:00 - 18:00:
Phase 4 - Sending a Kampfgruppe towards Bierun and bridge in Chelmek - 13:30 - 14:30
Phase 5 - Battle of Cwiklice and Miedzna, continuation - 14:30 - 16:30
a) Battle of Cwiklice and Miedzna, continuation
b) Failed German attack against Bojszowy and bridge there, 5. Panzer-Division lost the chance for operational success
Phase 6 - Sending a column towards Gora - 16:30 - 18:00, Germans fail to cut off Polish forces and capture the bridge
3. Polish reorganization - 16:00 - 22:00:
A - covering outpost of colonel Misiag in Jawiszowice
B - units around Pszczyna
C - Units in Goczalkowice
D - Group of major Balos

03.09.1939 - 04.09.1939 - Polish detachment from the German forces and successful withdrawal:


Polish units detach from German forces:

Kobiorski Forest - 18:00 - 22:00 - group of 20. and 16. Infantry Regiments
A - 22:00 - morning on 04.09 - group of 20. Infantry Regiment of major Balos
B - 22:00 - morning on 04.09 - group of 16. Infantry Regiment of major Ryba
C - 23:00 - morning on 04.09 - garrison of Kobior (lieutenant colonel Adamczyk)
D - Group of colonel Misiag in Jawiszowice and Harmeze

German operations:

A - Column Lubbe - failed attempts of capturing all bridges
B - Column Streich - failed attempt of clearing out the forest near the river Gostynka (men casualties, 5 tanks knocked out), fail attempt of capturing bridge at the river Przemsza in Ruda Slaska
C - Column Lubbe - failed attempts of capturing bridges in Broszkowice and Rajsko


1. Fierce battle of Rajsko against cut off group of major Ryba - 4:00 - around 11:00 / 11:30

Edited by Domen - 29-Mar-2009 at 17:40
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Husaria View Drop Down

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  Quote Husaria Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2009 at 20:30
Domen i always enjoy reading your posts, they always have some good sources and some pictures to look at.
"The best tank terrain is that without anti-tank weapons."
-Russian military doctrine.
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TheRedBaron View Drop Down

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  Quote TheRedBaron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Mar-2009 at 12:56
Losses are a difficult thing to look at.
How are your tank losses broken down between...
Damaged beyond repair
Damged but repairable at rear location
Damaged and repairable at werkstatte
Mechanical breakdown
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Domen View Drop Down

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  Quote Domen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2009 at 16:32
The highest figure of mine (1400 tanks lost) refer to:
Destroyed + damaged beyond repair + damaged but repairable at rear location (not in a short time, not short-term repair) + maybe also some of those which could be repaired in field workshops (but only the part damaged during the last phases of the campaign, as they were still not operational). In short words: this refers to the number of tanks (out of the initial number deployed) which were not operational by the end of the campaign.
But mechanical breakdowns are not included here because such tanks were usually operational again after a very short time since the breakdown (several hours up to a few days). Number of tanks completely destroyed and damaged beyond repair (they had to be rebuilt in factories) was around 800 *. Similar number for Westfeldzug in 1940 was around 850 (according to some other sources 750, but they forget about Czechoslovakian-production tanks).
Similar number for Westfeldzug in 1940 to the first number from the Polish campaign (1400) was around 1800.
* This includes:
Pz I - 320
Pz II - 259
Pz III - 40
Pz IV - 76
Pz 35(t) - 77
Pz 38(t) - 7
Pz Bef - between 13 and 34 (but lower number refers probably only to big Pz Bef, without klein ones)

Total: 813

Edited by Domen - 18-Aug-2009 at 16:41
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  Quote Domen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2009 at 16:38

Sorry - double post.

Edited by Domen - 18-Aug-2009 at 16:39
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