Pre-Columbian Contact Claims Encyclopedia

Originally posted by Maharbbal Hooops, guys Hassan Al-Jruss al-Finiki is a total invention. I made it up to mock a guy asking for evidence of Muslim contact with the Americas.

Hello,

I knew your post was a mockery. I was just asking for credible sources because I was skeptical about what I read so the mockery was uncalled for.

Originally posted by pinguin Almost every pseudo-schollar nationalist that pretend to put its own people in superior possition has to claim a contact with the Americas . So, we have Chinese, Japanese, East Indians, Phoenicians, Arabs, Jews, West Africans, Irish and just about everybody else, comming to the Americas. Although archeology don't follow those wild claims.   For me, all those claims are just trying to robb the heritage of Amerindians. It is a form of racism, indeed, because still today some people don't believe Indians are intelligent.

I fail to see how a possible contact with an outside society reflects the Amerindians as being unintelligent. Even if contact between the old and the new world existed in some form, the Amerindians still forms a very unique and interesting culture.

Plus, most of the contact claims take place 1000ad and after. Besides for the Azetcs and the Incas, most of the Amerindians civilizations already came and went.

And why are the claims so wild?

Its just hard to believe that for 20,000 years, not a single person besides Columbus, Leif Ericson, and some Polynesians wondered what laid beyond the ocean and attempted to find out. Not saying that continuous contact existed or even any direct contact at all.

If you can believe that Amerindians made the voyage (well, died on the way) to the old world, why is it a "wild claim" to believe that those from the old world made it to the new? Even if they died in the process.

Just how I view it.

Originally posted by Paul [ By doing a post like this you are entering highly politically charged world, there are many radical Indian groups and forums out there. They organise demos and we got the odd visitor to this forum.......... They really don't want posts like this. The reason.   A few low IQ ranting nationalists are really scared of looking at these examples. They have built up a cosy little fantasy world of their own. They're people in life who have amounted to absolutely nothing,  So they have chosed a path of dogma and no capacity for thought, no desire to explore new ideas and sabotage anyone who tries, because the fear the results. Instead they have constructed a racist utopia where by pretending to be a [native american] they are at the centre of a little delusional paradise. Any use of thought on the subject challenges this fantasy world.  The two main weapons they use are mockery and repeat the same old tired dogma again and again and AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN.....................

I make reference a group of Ometeotl cultists and Mexica Movement types who are sabotaging a Kennewick Man thread on an archaeology forum by truning it into a flame war and you immediately think it must be about you.

URL?

Originally posted by Maharbbal A handful of other theories claim that the Americans were the first to discover the rest of the world.

wow. and that at least seems plausible. have you read the work of william james sidis, who wrote of the native american occupation of europe and atlantis; presumably, atlantis was a city on the azores islands, before some sort of global-melting or earthquake induced a local deluge. this is all so fascinating! who knows?


Edited by Aeolus - 30-Sep-2008 at 04:47

Originally posted by Paul A few low IQ ranting nationalists are really scared of looking at these examples.

i completely agree with you.

thus, how might we structure a valid timeline of interaction between peoples? has such a task been undertaken? the following is beautiful, but not quite the chart for which I lust: https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/atlas.html

i seek an accurate encyclopedia: one that is celebratory of all contributions and chronologically exact. 8 ^ D

Edited by Cryptic - 02-Oct-2008 at 00:38

Originally posted by Cryptic It is increasingly likely that some of the Amerindian ancestors came from what 15,000 years later would be called "Europe".   This data is rejected by people holding a sort of "reverse stormfront" belief and who advocate a "pure" (whatever that means) asian ancestory.

Originally posted by Cryptic .. Do not think of them as "Europeans".  One thing for sure, the people in question never self identified as "Europeans". That concept would be invented 15,000 years later. --- What is so nonsensical.  It is logical that hunter gatherers made the Siberia - Americas migration. Why is  "land mass later known as Europe" Iceland, Greenland, Americas connection so impossible? This is not Thor Heradyl.

Originally posted by Cryptic ... Humans have demonstrated their capability for the trip. In extremely early times, small bands of hunter gatherers migrated from Africa through Indonesia and into Australia and Tasmania.

1311 A 400 ships strong Malian fleet explored S. America. Only one came back. The next year, the sultan Abubakari II, sailed with 2000 ships to the West. Traces of this population would have been discovered by Columbus.

The first journey was in 1310 with 200 ships, and the second (which included Abu Bakr II and 1000 ships) in 1311. It is quite possible that the descendants of these ships were found by Columbus.

I think it is fairly certain that there was sporadic and disorganised pre-columbian contact in both directions. Which created the rumours which lead both Columbus and Abu Bakr II to try to establish permanent contact.