Violence in Islam and Christianity: A Comparison

I have rarely liked what Paul had to say, so much hatred and vitriol. Jesus is always so much nicer.

What is that supposed to mean? as far as I know muslims follow their god not Christ and christianity was around before islam James ahd never heard of islam

Not at all. The modern religion of Islam is just a modern incarnation of a very old religion. God does not let people drift aimlessly without any hope of guidance. All through the centuries God has sent messengers to preach the message of monotheism to all the peoples of the world. We know the names of only a fraction of these prophets, Ibrahim, Moses, Jesus, Shoaib etc (pbut). Muhammed was the last of these prophets, certainly not the first. Hardly any of Islamic religion (as oppose to Islamic practice) has anything to do with Muhammed. Its all older. Jesus was the prophet immediately preceeding Muhammed and he taught the same message. So yes, we are definitely followers of Christ.
Christianity has become different from Islam only because Jesus's message was not properly recorded, leaving too much room for non-divinely inspired teachers.
The older you go in Christianity, and the further away you stay from St Paul, the closer christianity becomes to Islam.
The book of James is a shining example of Islam thought and ideals sitting right in the middle of the bible. And its certainly not the only example either, the OT is full of them. The funny thing is, there is a particular writing style that people use when they have read the Quran (the word of God) and are trying to replicate it, because they never get the style right. James uses that style. Which leaves me in no doubt that he did hear a revelation from God (probably narrated by Jesus), and is trying to replicate that style.

Contrast this to Matthew who speaks exactly as a modern middle aged Palestinian giving a religious talk. In fact, if you don't know how religious old Arab men tend to exaggerate, use excessive metaphors, colourful phrases and rather strange stories in their speeches I don't think you will stand much chance of understanding what Matthew is actually going on about.


Edited by Omar al Hashim - 18-Oct-2008 at 01:39

I only care to discuss the last part of Eagle's recent post. I've read the link and have come to a few conclusions and one is about him. Got to admit that repsonding to his posts are getting to be fun. Like child's play. Eagle tends to come around and drop a few mysterious bombs on certain subjects. Relgion is one of them. Turks, Greeks, Politics and goblins are another. So, that is my first conclusion. My other conclusion is summarised below.

Originally posted by eaglecap Islam follows Isa not Jesus the Christos or son of God like Christians do so you are comparing apples to oranges Omar. To Christians it is a totally different Jesus. The same can be said about the Mormon Jesus and the Christ of main stream Christianity.

No. There is only one person and he cannot be an apple and an orange simultaneously. Christians believe, based on the authority of human authors who did not know Jesus that he was the son of God. We believe, on the authority of God himself, that Jesus was a man and a messenger.
Not only that but these human authors have created such a complicated story, that the nature of Jesus is in perpetual confusion.

I would agree the Bibles has errors but so does the Qur'an, Hadith and other Islamic writings. From what I understand there were so many hadiths at one time that they were refered to as the ahadith. Which one is correct? Here is an interesting link that shows some of the errors concerning the Qu'ran- science and miracles. As far I as know Muhammad did not do the miracles Christ was claimed to have done and as far as I know you religion accepts the miracles of Christ but of course he is not the son of God.

There are no errors in the Quran and you have done well yourself to prove it. Think about it, you have quoted a site that has nothing but hatred of Islam, and have tried their best to find errors in the Quran and this is the best they have come up with?
Never once have any of these people come up with an "error" that takes more than an atoms worth of intellect to see through. The only people they can convince are those who through blind faith to their own ideals are already convinced!

Think about it, the greatest enemies of Islam and this is the best they can do? Such that even a child could disprove it? That in itself is a proof of the revelation of the Quran.

ahadith is the plural of hadith. The ahadith are man made historical documents, and are subject to all the errors that fallible narrators can introduce. This has always, and will always be true.

I see violence in the Hindu religion also if you have kept up with what is happening to Christians in India. The Tamil Tigers are a crazy group and follow buda.

Err... the Tamils are Hindu. Its the Sinhalese who are buddhist. But your point is still valid because the Sinhalese are just as guilty as the Tigers.

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim There are no errors in the Quran and you have done well yourself to prove it. Think about it, you have quoted a site that has nothing but hatred of Islam, and have tried their best to find errors in the Quran and this is the best they have come up with? Never once have any of these people come up with an "error" that takes more than an atoms worth of intellect to see through. The only people they can convince are those who through blind faith to their own ideals are already convinced!

Edited by Soren Svendsen - 04-Nov-2008 at 01:00

Originally posted by es_bih The Qu'ran mentions the Earth egg-shaped, as it is, it isn't a perfect sphere. I am not sure where you get your flat Earth theory from.

You are full of s---t sometimes Menu. What did I tell you about latching on the one selective quote proves it all train?

The egg - shaped follows the quote you have. Yes the earth is expansive, so the Quran got it right, expansive in the way its settable.
"And Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out)."
[Al-Qur’an 71:19]
"That ye may go about therein, in spacious roads."
[Al-Qur’an 71:20]
"He Who has made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels)...."
[Al-Qur’an 20:53]
"And We have spread out the (spacious) earth: how excellently We do spread out!"
[Al-Qur’an 51:48]
"Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse"
"And the mountains as pegs?"
[Al-Qur’an 78:6-7]
None of these actually refer to a flat earth.

"And we have made the earth egg shaped".
[Al-Qur’an 79:30]

The earth is round (10:24; 39:5) and resembles an egg (10:24; 39:5; 79:30).


Here is some commentary on 79:30 from Edip Yuksel

DISCUSSION OF 79:30
Almost all English translations of the Quran mistranslate the word DaHY, a word that is still used for
"egg" among Arabic-speaking populations in North Africa. Why? The answer can be found in the
footnotes of some classic commentaries of the Quran, which were written centuries ago.
Early commentators and translators of the verse were stuck on the word DaHY, since it means (as we
have translated) egg. In the verse it is used as a transitive verb with the third person pronoun Ha,
which means "made it round like egg" or literally "egged it." But, the commentators thought that the
earth was flat!
Since they knew God's word could not contain errors or contradiction, they assumed their
understanding of the verse must have been wrong. Thus, they tried to interpret the description. They
argued that the word DaHY (egg) must have implied maDHY (nest), and inferred that God meant
"nest" by the word "egg." Therefore, the earth is extended like a nest.
Early commentators had an excuse for reaching such a conclusion, since they did not know that the
earth was spherical and slightly distended (like an egg); however, modern commentators of the Quran
have no excuse to parrot this medieval misunderstanding. They should have known that the verse
means what it says: the earth is shaped like an egg. The external physical appearance of planet earth is
like an egg, and its cross-section displays geological layers similar to egg. Not only is the earth eggshaped
and resembles an egg regarding its layers, but so is its orbit around the sun. In fact, this is
Kepler’s famous First Law of Planetary Motion: the orbit of a planet about a star is an ellipse, as
opposed to a perfect circle.
The Quranic description of the earth, the solar
system, the cosmos and the origin of the universe is
centuries ahead of the time of its first revelation. For
instance, the Quran, delivered in the seventh century
C.E., states or implies that: Time is relative (32:5;
70:4; 22:47). God created the universe from nothing
(2:117). The earth and heavenly bodies were once a
single point and they were separated from each other
(21:30). The universe is continuously expanding
(51:47). The universe was created in six days (stages)
and the conditions that made life possible on earth
took place in the last four stages (50:38; 41:10). The
stage before the creation of the earth is described as a
gas nebula (41:11). Planet earth is floating in an orbit
(27:88; 21:33; 36:40). The earth is round (10:24;
39:5; 55:33) and resembles an egg (10:24; 39:5;
79:30). The universe is also round (55:33). Oceans
have subsurface wave patterns (24:40). Earth's
atmosphere acts like a protective shield (21:32).
Wind also pollinates plants (15:22). The bee has
multiple stomachs (16:69). The workers in honeybee
communities are females (16:68-69). After years of
disappearance, Periodical Cicadas emerge all
together with a cacophony of songs, testifying a
similitude of resurrection for those who appreciate
God's signs in the nature (54:7). The creation of
living creatures follows an evolutionary system
(7:69; 15:28-29; 24:45; 32:7-9; 71:14-17). The
earliest biological creatures were incubated inside
flexible layers of clay (15:26). The stages of human
development in the womb are detailed (23:14). Our
biological life span is coded in our genes (35:11).
Photosynthesis is a recreation of energy stored
through chlorophyll (36:77-81). Everything is created
in pairs (13:3; 51:49; 36:36). The atomic number,
atomic weight and isotopes of Iron are specified
(57:25). Atoms of elements found on earth contain a
maximum of seven energy layers (65:12). There will
be new and better transportation vehicles beyond
what we know (16:8). The edges of land, that is
shores, will be reduced in size because of human's
reckless behavior (13:41). The sound and vision of
water and the action of eating dates (which contain
oxytocin) reduce labor pains (19:24-25). There is life
(not necessarily intelligent) beyond earth (42:29).
The Quran correctly refers to Egypt's ruler who made
107
Joseph his chief adviser as king (malik), not as
Pharaoh (12:59). Many of the miracles mentioned in
the Quran, for instance, represent the ultimate goals
of science and technology. The Quran relates that
matter (but not humans) can be transported at the
speed of light (27:30-40); that smell can be
transported to remote places (12:94); that extensive
communication with animals is possible (27:16-17);
that sleep, in certain conditions, can slow down
metabolism and increase life spans (18:25); and that
the vision of blind people can be restored (3:49). The
number of months in a year is stated as 12 and the
word Month (shahr) is used exactly twelve times.
The number of days in a year is not stated, but the
word Day (yawm) is used exactly 365 times. The
frequency of the word year (sana) in its singular form
occurs 7 times and plural form 12 times and together
19 times; each number relating to an astronomic
event. A prophetic mathematical structure based on
the number 19 implied in chapter 74 of the Quran
was discovered in 1974 by the aid of computers
shows that the Quran is embedded with an
interlocking extraordinary mathematical system,
which was also discovered in the original parts of the
Old Testament in the 11th century. And there's more –
much more. See 68:1; 79:30; 74:1-37. Also see
Appendix titled: There is No Contradiction in the

021:033 This verse clearly informs us that all (kul)
celestial bodies rotate in an orbit. Interestingly, the
earth's rotation around its axis is also implied by the
expression

79:27 Are you a more powerful creation than
the sky which He built?
79:28 He raised its height, and perfected it.
79:29 He covered its night and brought out its
morning.
79:30 The land after that, He made it like an
egg.*

I leave you with that to ponder about.

A proper translation is one that not only takes into account the vast richness of both the Arabic and the English language, but also that they are different and that it is hard to translate a text such as the Quran. Thus by trying to translate it for the English speaker rather than merely translating into a language you provide a the reader with something more akin to what could have been nativly produced in the language. A much better read and less misconceptions abound thereafter. 

Originally posted by Soren Svendsen Originally posted by es_bih A proper translation is one that not only takes into account the vast richness of both the Arabic and the English language, but also that they are different and that it is hard to translate a text such as the Quran. Thus by trying to translate it for the English speaker rather than merely translating into a language you provide a the reader with something more akin to what could have been nativly produced in the language. A much better read and less misconceptions abound thereafter.    Yuksel is not that person. I'm sorry but I tend to rely a bit more on the academics opinion regarding the proper use and translation of Arabic and English.   But the question I wanted you to answer was the question about the historical context.

To each its own I guess.