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Ark of the Covenant

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  Quote amature historian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Ark of the Covenant
    Posted: 23-Jul-2017 at 13:10
Originally posted by red clay

Most of the legends surrounding the Ark speak of effects similar to radiation sickness.
The guardians at Aksum display similar after a period of time.



I am curious what are the sources for the legends surrounding the Ark in regard to your radiation sickness claim?   In the bible, the only person I recall being directly killed by the Ark was killed instantly, more like a giant electric shock than radiation.  


(I read one claim that the construction of the Ark as drescribed in the bible would act as a giant capacitor, with conducting gold over the insulting wood allowing a large and potentially lethal static charge to build up.  Don't necessarily by it, seems having the gold on the outside will lend itself for the charge leaking away, but I suppose the gold =ould build up quite a static charge if properly insulated.

The Ark had one of 2 fates, in my view:

a.  It was destroyed during one of the times that Jerusalem was captured.

b.  It was hidden during one of the sieges of Jerusalem, and became lost as the those responsible for hiding it were killed during the capture of the city.

Had an enemy, like the Romans, captured the Ark, we would have seen evidence of that, like the menora and other Temple treasures show on Titus Column,  In neither the Babylonian and Roman records is the Ark listed.  


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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2017 at 13:43
Interesting thought about questioning whether the Ark really did have any energy effects according to the bible etc.

As to the Romans, the Titus column does actually possibly show an ark-like object. And a medieval picture shows an ark like object being carried before Pope Gregory during a plague event. (There is also an ark like object in painting in Monreale?) So they possibly may have an ark in the Vatican but it may only be a later 2nd ark from 2nd temple made after 500s bc. Antiochus Epiphanes is claimed by some to have captured such a 2ndary ark. The Vatican don't seem to have the ark though because otherwise they wouldn't be allegedly looking for it at Kiriath Jearim?

I find it hard to believe they would have let i be destroyed or captured.

If it was still in Jerusalem/temple in the Babylonian or other attack then somewhere nearby in Jerusalem is the most likely unless they were able to get away in some way and there was some safe area in some direction. The problem is they don't know for sure whether the ark was there anytime after Hezekiah's last testifying/witness statement. If it was removed during the bad reign of Manasseh &/or Amon then where could they have gone that was safe?


Edited by Arthur-Robin - 23-Jul-2017 at 13:49
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  Quote amature historian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2017 at 15:18
Originally posted by Arthur-Robin

Interesting thought about questioning whether the Ark really did have any energy effects according to the bible etc.

As to the Romans, the Titus column does actually possibly show an ark-like object. And a medieval picture shows an ark like object being carried before Pope Gregory during a plague event. (There is also an ark like object in painting in Monreale?) So they possibly may have an ark in the Vatican but it may only be a later 2nd ark from 2nd temple made after 500s bc. Antiochus Epiphanes is claimed by some to have captured such a 2ndary ark. The Vatican don't seem to have the ark though because otherwise they wouldn't be allegedly looking for it at Kiriath Jearim?

I find it hard to believe they would have let i be destroyed or captured.

If it was still in Jerusalem/temple in the Babylonian or other attack then somewhere nearby in Jerusalem is the most likely unless they were able to get away in some way and there was some safe area in some direction. The problem is they don't know for sure whether the ark was there anytime after Hezekiah's last testifying/witness statement. If it was removed during the bad reign of Manasseh &/or Amon then where could they have gone that was safe?

I don't recall any "Ark" like object depicted in Titus' Column, nothing with winged cheribum on it that th3 bible desribes.  A box might have been shown, but nothing like what the bible describes in detail.  Can you show me a picture of the object you have in mind shown on Tutus column?

If the Jews could not prevent their temple from being destroyed and their city captured, they would likely not be able to protect the Ark either.  We know other temple treasure was captured, the Jews were not able to hide them, why should we think the Ark be any different.

The Jews might have destroyed the Ark themselves to prevent capture I guess, and that would explain the silence - the Jews would hardly record the fact they had to destroy the Ark because God was unable to protect it.  But unlikely, the Jews would have hidden it, or allowed it to be captured, and trust God to see it was returned, along with the other temple treasure,
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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2017 at 16:24

Yes it is true that it doesn't totally look like the ark in that there are no winged cherubim on top, but the object in pictures that i have seen nevertheless does still look to me abit like the (an) ark in some ways (box carried with poles very much like the ark). I only have dialup and only an older o.s. software so i'm not really geared up for pictures & videos etc, esp since google images got slower since changes, and i can't remember where i recently saw the picture again, but fortunately i have easily found it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rom,_Titusbogen,_Triumphzug_3.jpg . Its the object on the (our) right hand side with the poles crossed like a St Andrew cross. True no cherubs on top, but i still can't shake the ark-like similarity, esp when also with the menorah and other temple stuff. (Though i may not have seen very close-up large clear enough pictures and i could be wrong.) Zechariah father of John Baptist might have been standing by such a second ark when angel visited?

Sure they couldn't stop the city eventually falling and capture. But they knew for some time between start of the attack and the final fall/capture of the city and temple, and so they had time to hide the ark somewhere safe. It is possible to hide something where people won't find it. And they especially might not be likely to find hidden things (underground) in a devastated and deserted site. The other treasures were not as high value as the ark, so they didn't mind so much their capture.

"God" was only "unable" because he has to allow humans & world to go their way and do their things if they refuse to love him. Some priests or prophet loyal to God might have hidden the ark for prophetic future.

They might even have known all along and the silence is just to exoteric, though it looks like they don't know because they are allegedly looking for ark at Kiriath Jearim (unless they are really looking for the teraphim there or something else).

I did a rough timeline of all Israelite biblical history to view periods since ark's last definite mention.

God/eternity
"gap"/"Sammael's flood"?
Day 1
2nd day
3rd day
4th day
5th day
"6th day man" (Lilith, Samael)
7th day
8thdayman/Adam
Eve
Cain
Enoch
Irad
Mehujael, Methusael
Lamech
Tubalcain, Jabal, Jubal
Seth "8th"
Enosh
Kenan/Cainan
Mahalalel
Jared
Enoch
Methuselah
Lamech
Noah c 1656 am
Shem, Ham, Japheth
Arphaxad
Shelah
Kenan?
Eber/Hud
Peleg, Joktan
Reu
Serug
Nahor
Terah
Abraham c 2000s bc
Isaac
Jacob/Israel [= Khufu/Cheops]
Levi, Joseph c 1800s bc
(gap), Ephraim, Manasseh
Kohath
(gap)
Amram
Moses, Og of Bashan c 1400s bc, c 2666 am.
Joshua/Hoshea
Caleb
Kenaz
Cushanrishathaim, Othniel
Ehud
Shamgar
Deborah/Barak
Gideon/Jerubbaal
Abimelech
Tola, Jair
Jephthah
Ibzan, Elon, Abdon
Philistines, Samson
Eli
... & ...
Samuel
... & ...
Saul
Ishbosheth
David c 1000s bc?
(Absalom)
(Adonijah)
Solomon (Hiram, Genubath, Menelik)
Rehoboam (Jeroboam, Menelik, Adramis)
Egyptian (Shishak/Susakim, Zerah) c 900s bc
(Israel & Judah & Edom & Syria kings/chronicles)
Neo-Assyrian (TP3, Sennacherib) c 700s bc
(Judah kings/chronicles c 600s bc)
Neo-Babylonian/Chaldean (Nebuchadnezzar, Necho) c 600/500s bc
Medes (Darius)
Achaemenid/Persians/Iranian (Cyrus)
[Athenian]
[Spartan]
[Theban]
Greco-Macedonian (Alexander) 300s bc.
Antigonid
Ptolemies/Egypt (Leontopolis)
Seleucids/Syria (Antiochus)
Maccabees/Hasamoneans
Herodian/Boethusian/Romans (vs Parthian) (Caesar, Jesus) bc/ad
Roman (Titus)
Byzantine
Persian/Parthian
Arabs/Moslems/Caliphate 600s
Crusaders/Templars 1100s
Ayyubids (Saladin)
Mamlukes
Ottoman Turks
French (Napoleon) 1700s-1800s
Ottoman Turks
Egyptian
Ottoman Turks
British/League of Nations 1900s
Israeli/Zionist/living memory (Wyatt, Rabin, Arafat, Netanyahu) 2000s ad
future/unfulfilled prophecy, eternity

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  Quote amature historian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2017 at 19:45
I came across an article that said Josephus said that the room that housed the Holy of Holies in the Temple was empty, so that in the Secon Temple period (by Roman times) the Ark was already missing.

So the Ark either became lost during Egypt's (Sheshonq's) invasion of Judah, or the Babylonian's.   The bible did say Shishonk carried away everything of gold from the Temple in the reign of Solomn's son, and we never hear of the Ark again in the Bible, although we know the Ark was in the Temple in the time of Solomn himself.

Another possibility is that the Ark just rotted away - it was just made of wood covered with gold, and perhaps in a 1000+ years a wooden object could have become rotten.
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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2017 at 13:27
Yes it is generally considreed that the ark was missing ever since time of Babylonian captivity.
Thats interesting i didn't know Josephus said such, i'll have to look it up. I think he also said the Ark was at Mt Gerizzim? (Is it coincidence that name Kiriath Jearim similar in English?)
But i wouldn't place too much faith in Josephus.
The bible is considered to imply in Kings/Chronicles that the Ark was definitely still there in Hezekiah's reign. Only mention after is in Josiah reign but it is not definite. Jeremiah possibly implies that the Ark was still there in his time before Babylonian captivity.
So i personally don't think Shishak [or "Menelik"] took the ark. (Shishak/Susakim may be Tutankhamun, (Zerah may be Ramses 2 "Sestura",) and his gold may have come from temple treasures. He is certainly not Sheshonk as orthodox have it, for various reasons including that their campaigns don't match.)
Seems to have vanished most likely between Hezekiah or Josiah and Zedekiah/Jeremiah times. Only major incidents then were bad reign of Manasseh & Amon, and Babylonians attack.
Re the Manasseh & Elephantine & Ethiopia theory Hancock's book 'Sign & Seal' is very interesting, and Bob Cornuke's.

Agreed that it is not very likely it would have lasted very well for so long. Depends on how well preserved by hiding place. But i had the thought awhile ago that the 10/12 commandment tablet/tablets would last, and the gold.
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jul-2017 at 12:59
I'm having probs posting. I've tried to reply to 5-6 threads but get error messages. Anyone else having issues? 
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jul-2017 at 13:37
Test post.

Forgot to mention that Egyptian has mention of the "ark of the A(a)mu" (I think Bristowe mentions this?)
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  Quote amature historian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jul-2017 at 20:06
Originally posted by red clay

I'm having probs posting. I've tried to reply to 5-6 threads but get error messages. Anyone else having issues? 

No, I have not experienced any log in problems
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  Quote Lee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2017 at 23:37
Most of the Old Testament stories were written in Hellenistic times.

 Joseph had horns and wore the the crown of laurel associated with Apollo ( Laurus Nobilis )( Gen 49:26 / Deu 33:16 ) , the story of Joseph concludes that he was placed inside a 'Chest' ('arown), which is the same Hebrew word for 'Ark' of the Covenant. 

The horns, crown of laurel and being handed over the crown of Egypt,  this identified him as 
Alexander the Great. 

Alexander the Great died early,   but soon after,  his body was placed inside a  coffin upon a funerary cart that travelled through Syria,  was hijacked many times( 1 sam 4:11) , it went to Macedonia and then to Egypt.

The proof is 1 Samuel 6:8   ' Funerary Cart '
 - Take the Ark (Coffin) and lay it upon the Cart 

The Ark of the Covenant  was Alexander's Funerary cart. 

Towards the end of the Ark's journey, it stopped at 'Beth Shemesh'  ( House of the Sun ) and Egypt was the final resting place of Alexander's funerary cart.
 



Edited by Lee - 06-Oct-2017 at 00:31
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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Feb-2018 at 16:23
Found another possibility. When Herod the Great robbed King David's sepulchre/tomb (in Josephus) they were stopped by a flame of fire flashing. Maybe the ark could be there.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Feb-2018 at 12:08
The Jewish historians themselves had their own record of what happened to the Ark. It was mentioned as being in the Temple of Solomon during the reign of King Josiah. But later references in the books of Ezekial and Jeremiah present it as part of a vision or symbol. It is not mentioned in the list of Temple items carried away by the Babylonians, nor in the list of items brought back when the Temple was rebuilt.

In 124 BC The Second Book of Maccabees was written, and book 2 records that at the time of the Babylonian threat to Jerusalem; 
"These same records also tell us that Jeremiah, acting under divine guidance, commanded the Tent of the Lord's Presence and the Covenant Box to go with him to the mountain where Moses had looked down on the land which God had promised our people. When Jeremiah got to the mountain, he found a huge cave and there he hid the Tent of the Lord's Presence, the Covenant Box, and the altar of incense. Then he sealed up the entrance. Some of Jeremiah's companions tried to follow him and mark the way, but they could not find the cave. When Jeremiah learned what they had done, he reprimanded them, saying - No one must know about this place until God gathers his people together again and shows them mercy."

The 2nd Century BC Jewish historian Eupolemus, records that when Nebuchadnezzar took away the wealth of the Temple, he did so without the Ark or the Tablets because these had already been taken by Jeremiah.

Josephus, writing about 94 AD, might be referencing this secret expedition of Jeremiah, sanctioned by the elders and priests, in Book 10 of his Antiquities, chapter 6 he writes;
Now when this prophet [Jeremiah] had written all his prophecies, and the people were fasting, and assembled at the temple, on the ninth month of the fifth year of Jehoiakim, he read the book he had composed of his predictions of what was to befall the city, and the temple, and the multitude. And when the rulers heard of it, they took the book from him, and bid him and Baruch the scribe to go their ways, lest they should be discovered by one or other;

The New Testament also carries the tradition that Jeremiah hid the Ark. In the Gospel of Matthew we are told that Jesus was believed by some Jews to be the prophet Jeremiah. This reflects the belief that when the end times came, Jeremiah would return and reveal the whereabouts of the Ark. 


Edited by .Sidney - 24-Feb-2018 at 12:32
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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Sep-2018 at 10:49

Not sure if this one is possible/likely or not? Hancock said the ark seems to have disappeared between the reigns of Hezekiah and Josiah in the reigns of Manasseh and Amon. Among the contemporary prophets of these kings reigns according to one source is Micah who prophesied about Bethlehem/Ephrathah. The town of Bethelehem also features in Psalm 132 which also mentions the ark. This Psalm 132 says "we have found it in he fields of the forest", and one wonders if the "it" is the ark? Josephus also mentioned golden treasures found in David's sepulcher in the reign of Herod the Great nearabouts to the time of Jesus' birth. Bethlehem means house of bread which could possibly also connect with the shewbread (and with Afikoman which some have claimed can mean "Hapi is found"?) Lemesurier's book showed Bethlehem connected with an alignment line from Giza. Ark as the throne of son of David could also connect with Bethlehem as the town of David?

Psalm 132 mentions two places Bethlehem and Jerusalem as possible locations of the ark. (The Psalm is one of the songs of ascents and it might possibly date from David's time rather than from Micah's time though, and so its reference to the ark might not be connected with the later lost ark's location.) The Ark is seen to be in heaven in Revelation/Apocalypse. This might possibly mean that evidence is found that the ark "died" - either records evidence or physical remains evidence. It also might mean it will be found in Jerusalem which is the earthly counterpart of the heavenly New Jerusalem. Psalm 132 possibly implies that the ark will always be in Jerusalem?

The sight of the ark in heaven in Revelation might mean that evidence will be found then of the ark's perishing in past centuries, or it might mean that the ark will perish in that chapter's times after being previously refound in modern times (since the chapter is pretty late in the end times).
There might be a possibility that the ark's location might be hinted at in the book of Lamentations? Lamentations 4 mentions gold. Lamentations has been supposed to be connected with Josiah. The last mention of the ark occurred in Josiah's reign. Possibly the ark could have been left in Josiah's tomb, which could also be a sort of messianic symbolism (Josiah as a type of the messiah).

Jesus said "from the blood to Abel to Zechariah". 
Maybe the ark could be in/under the "tomb of Zechariah" (or the tomb of the prophets Haggai, Zechariah & Malachai)? This tomb has a carved picture similar to a temple or ark building.... Zechariah was during the reign of Jehoash, only a few decades/kings before Hezekiah, while the last mention of the ark was either in reign of Hezekiah or Josiah, so the ark's disappearance can't be directly connected with Zechariah, but the ark's disappearance could possibly have been connected with Zechariah's tomb, especially since Zechariah is supposed to be time of Nebuchanezzar in some rabbinic sources? There was also a high priest Zeraiah or Azariah in the times of the ark's disappearance in Josephus. (Zechariah was also the priest father of John the Baptist in the Temple in Luke 1, where an angel appeared in the holy of holies. Bethany on the east of Jerusalem is also called el-Azariyeh, and it is associated with Lazarus/Eleazar "God help". God often helped Israel via presence of the ark. Bethany is nearby/on the Mount of Olives.) The tomb of Absalom (and/or cave of Jehoshaphat) is also called the tomb of Zechariah in an inscription. The book of Malachai is also connected with the Temple.



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 29-Sep-2018 at 20:39
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  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2018 at 01:45
Well, here's my take.   It's all about documentation.   According to the narrative of II Chronicles 35:3, Josiah celebrated a Passover with the ark being placed into the Temple.   This occurred in his 18th year, hence, since he reigned 31 years and his reign ended in 609 BC the beginning would be about 640 BC.   His 18th year would be about 622 BC.   

Now the Chronicles (I and II Chronicles) were originally one work mentioning a last historical event to the first year of Cyrus (probably when he took Babylong) hence 539 BC. but containing some genealogical information bringing its creation to about 350 BC.

A second work known as I Esdras (Ezra plus the last 2 chapters of II Chronicles and additional chapters)  which was composed sometime in the first century BC mentions that at the end of the reign of Zedekias (587 BC)

"And they took all the holy vessels of the Lord, both great and small, with the vessels of the ark of God, and the king's treasures, and carried them away into Babylon."  (I Esdras 1:54)

In this verse the vessels of the ark are mentioned, but no ark.    The same text does mention previous raids by Nebuchadnessar such as in 598 BC when he took Joacim prisoner:

"Nabuchodonsor also took of the holy vessels of the Lord, and carried them away, and set them in his own temple at Babylon" (I Esdras 1:41)

And his son "Joacim" one year later

"So after a year Nabuchodonosor sent and caused him to be brought into Babylon with the holy vessels of the Lord" (I Esdras 1:45)

The ark may have been taken during any of these times......or not.    The argument can be made that because the ark was not explicitly mentioned in these earlier raids (and because the ark was so central in the religion of the Jews) that the absence of it being mentioned could be quite telling.  If the ark had disappeared prior to the first raid, then any theory is possible.   

If Josiah had it hidden, (after 622 BC) it couldn't have happened (according the rabbinic tradition) to prevent it from falling into the hands of the Babylonians since at this time, the Babylonians were still battling the Assyrians for their independence.   The land of Assyria wasn't completely conquered until 609 BC and the remnants of its army wasn't defeated until 605 BC.   

If Jeremiah had it hidden as recorded in II Maccabees written about 124 BC at the earliest, in which he supposedly prophesied that

"The place shall remain unknown until God finally gathers his people together and shows mercy to them.  The Lord will bring these things to light again, and the glory of the Lord will appear with the cloud, as it was seen both in the time of Moses and when Solomon prayed that the shrine might be worthily consecrated"

this would be at variance to Jeremiah 3:16 in which the same prophet prophesied that the ark will not be mentioned, remembered, missed, or recreated.  

The implication is that it is an object of the past.    I'm of the thought that it simply disintegrated after centuries of existence.



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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2018 at 16:36
Some scholars have suggested that in the reference to the ark in Josiah's reign they may not necessarily have actually been able to put the ark back. Though i agree that Josiah's passover seemingly may confirm that the ark was involved. So the last definite mention of the ark in OT (excluding apocrypha) is either in Hezekiah's or Josiah's reign.

I agree that the ark might have disintegrated over centuries/millenia. Though they may have maintaned and repaired it while it was still . But we could still find evidence of it (either physical remains (esp since the gold would not decay so much) or documentary evidence). Revelation sayig the ark will be seen in the temple i heaven might/could mean evidence will be found (but not until after the Two Witnesses who dont seem to be here yet).

Ezra was someone i have also thought about re the ark too. I was not sure because Ezra was in the Persian period after the Babylonian taing of Jerusalem. The Koran says the Jews considered Ezra their messiah. Ezra's name might be connected with .

The referece in Jeremiah 3 might only be connectd with christians/messianic being arks superceding the old ark.

The Pseudepigrapha mentions the ark was either hidden by an angel under the Shetiyah (Dome of the Rock), or in Sinai, or half way between the burial places of Aaron and Moses. I wonder if Mt Karkom is a possibility (since this might be Mt Hor)? Obadiah mentions treasures of Edom.

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  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2018 at 20:20
Well I would beg to differ regarding the reference in Jeremiah 3.   It clearly is talking about a physical ark, when it says "....nor will another one be made.", so hence no reference to another "ark" replacing it.   Instead, the prior verse just talks about shepherds which would lead the people to "knowledge and understanding".

In the book of Hebrews (chapter 9) where the old Most Holy Place containing the ark is described, it talks about the role of the high priest who takes the sacrificial blood into the Most Holy Place for the sins of the people once a year.  It is then compared with the new Most Holy Place where the Lord is the High Priest baring his own blood as the sacrifice once for the sins of the people.  While the ark is not mentioned in the comparison, it is implied that is it is included in the "copies" of everything in the heavenly original Most Holy Place (verse 23).

The heavenly ark is only explicitly mentioned in Revelations 11:19

There are no references to "Christians/messianics" being arks.


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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Oct-2018 at 02:17

It looks like the Ark is maybe a symbol of Jesus Christ.

Ark: box/chest, directions to make
Jesus: human vessel conceived by holy spirit after angel's directions; "a body you have prepared for me".

Ark: the ark (and/or the grail) is identified by some with Mary who was called "Ark" in some sources; ark "contained a hexagram representing the sexual union of God and Goddess". golden ark in holy of holys "symbolised the localised presence of God on earth".
Jesus: conceived by God the holy spirit in virgin Mary. Emmanuel "god with us", "son of (most high) God".
 The shekinah or kabod (dove/Jonah?) was above the mercy seat which means the ark cant be God on one hand, but can be associated with the presence of God on other hand. The only begotten physical presence of God on earth ever was the son of God (Emmanuel "god with us"). "No one has seen the Father except the Son who came down". "He who has seen Me has seen that Father".  The ark can only be either the Godhead/Trinity,or Father, or Son, or Spirit. It cant just be Mary or a bishop or the Cross etc.

Ark: of the covenant (brit/berit)
Jesus: of Nazareth, a Nazarene or Naziritie "consecrated"? New covenant/testament. (Nozrei ha-Brit "Keepers of the Convenant".)

Ark: The golden Ark was a counterpart of the Golden Calf. The calf could be Apis/Hapi/Serapis who is similar to Abel and Jesus. Some said Afikoman could mean "Hapi is found"

Ark: Joshua and ark pass through the Jordan river, ritual washing before approaching it, (English word ark also used for Noah's Ark).
Jesus: baptised in Jordan. (Noah's Flood type of baptism and dying with Christ. Jesus in boat in storm in sea/lake of Galilee.)

Ark: carried by sons of Levi on wilderness wanderings.
Jesus: 40 days of temptation/fasting in wilderness; [died about 40 years old?]

Ark: "heavily guarded".
Jesus: angels protected him.

Ark: "sacred object"
Jesus: holy/annointed, lamb with no blemish/sin.

Ark: stone tablet/tablets of law inside
Jesus: Jesus kept the Mosaic law/commandments, fulfilled law after died on cross, law written in christians hearts; "he who loves me keeps my commandments"; (we are not saved by only trying to keep the law but by dying and raising with him.)
We cant save ourselves just by keeping that law (compare Cain, compare the baker in story of Joseph, compare the sailors in Jonah 1). Jesus fulfilled the law. He is the Word (which includes to Torah/Law). In the Bible skip code, Yeshua in Torah "points to Leviticus / the Law". He writes the law in our hearts. The first tablet(s) were broken. "The law will go forth from Zion" (Davids city)? "The interpreter of the law" in DSS.

Ark: contained pot of manna
Jesus: Jesus implied that he was "the true bread from heaven", communion bread & wine, "what father saked for bread gives a stone?".

Ark: of such sanctity that unauthorized person touching it is an infraction.
Jesus: "holy", son of god.

Ark: "power"
Jesus: power(ful).

Ark: returned to Kiriath-jearim
Jesus: Nazareth? Capernaum? Emmaus? Bethlehem?

Ark: kept at Shiloh
Jesus: identified as the messiah and Shiloh of "until Shiloh comes", prince/king of peace.

Ark: compasses Jericho.
Jesus: passed through Jericho; circuit.

Ark: rings on side for poles for carrying, transportable, transported on ox-cart, placed in tabernacle tent.
Jesus: rode on colt/ass, carried cross, took our sin/sins/sickness, Jesus/God in our hearts, (body temple of holy spirit). (Our bodies are mortal.)

Ark: captured by Philistines "strangers"
Jesus: Jews betrayed him to Romans

Ark: taken to Jerusalem
Jesus: set face to go to Jerusalem

Ark in house of Obed-Edom "servant of Edom/Adam".
Jesus in realm of Herod who was Idumean/Edomite.
(Edom/Adam means "red, earth, man", connected with Aram via d/r interchange. Jesus is the "new/second/last Adam". David was "ruddy/red". Jesus spoke Aramaic. Jesus/David had an ancestor named Obed. In the second coming Jesus comes from Teman/Bozrah in one biblical end times prophecy.)

Ark: for tabernacle use, brought into temple by Solomon
Jesus/Jeshua: was in the temple a number of times.
Became our high priest when died on cross, (temple curtain torn).

Ark: made of acacia/shittim wood, 2 ft wide & 3 ft long
Jesus: Sethite, was a carpenter, the cross was made of wood, cross is long trunk & short arms.

Ark: word aron also means "coffin".
Jesus: lamb of God who died on cross.

Ark: associated with Mt Sinai/Horeb, and/or Zion/Moriah.
Jesus: associated with Mt Calvary/Golgotha (Paul compared Sinai/Hagar and Calvary/Sarah), and Zion. (Sermon on the mount. Mount of the transfiguration.)

Ark: had a cover/lid, "mercy seat", "to purify, attone", same root word as in yom kipper "day of attonement", connected with blood in Mosaic ritual, (Wyatt claimed that Jesus blood dripped on mercy seat? Some suggest ark is throne of David?) Ark was also corresponded with the Holy Grail (and there is also a traditional theory that drops of Jesus blood were caught in the grail.)
Jesus: annointed, Jesus died for us, "I require mercy not sacrifice", Abel's sacrifice, covers/cleanses our sin; Jesus is associated with throne of David; (seated at right hand of God.)

Ark: 2 cherubim on top ("Michael/Jesus & Lucifer/Gabriel"? 2 cherubs in Eden?)
Jesus: Jesus & John; hermaphrodite/androgyne? 2 witnesses Moses & Elijah; 2 theives/crosses on either side; Jesus & Lucifer rivals in some sources? 2 comings/messiahs; king & priest; Alpha & Omega; Israel & Church; father & spirit; son & holy spirit; full of grace & truth. (Two or three columns in the Cabalaistic tree of 10 sephiroth.) Two thieves on either side of Jesus/Cross (like the baker and cupbearer in Joseph story).

Ark: was gold(en) (within and without), treasure, a most sought for object, "no more will people say 'the ark'" in Jeremiah 3:16, in most holy place
Jesus: Jesus is the most precious treasure/pearl, he was sold for 30 pieces of silver; in end times remnant of Jews and christians will all have God/Jesus with/in our hearts. (He fixes us inside & out.) "you are poor, but you are rich" (Revelation 2-3). The golden ark cant just be Mary or a bishop or the Cross etc. Everyone can have this most precious person-ark in their hearts.
("Bronze is judgement, Gold purified".)
(John 3:16.)

Ark: contained Aaron's rod that budded
Jesus: sprout/shoot/branch; our high priest; high priest Jeshua in Haggai/Zechariah.
Jesus has a rod of iron in Revelation.

Ark: contained 2 or 3 items (tablets of law, jar of manna, & Aarons rod?).
Jesus: 3 offices (king, priest, prophet)? Trinity. "I am the way, the truth and the life"; Loaves & fishes? 2 witnesses.

Ark: Koran says ark is "a sign of his kingship" and "a sign for you".
Jesus: king of the Jews, King of Kings; sign of Jonah.

Ark: nothing known of its later history; in temple in heaven in Revelation
Jesus: ascended to heaven, seated at right hand of God, our high priest, in our hearts (body is temple)

Islam: stone/rock Kaaba in house at Mecca is a bethel of Allah/Allat.
Judaism/OT: golden ark in holy of holys "symbolised the localised presence of God on earth (in judgment, mercy, forgiveness, and love)", shekinah/kabod of Yhwh/Elohim. (The Islamic Arabic cognate of Shekinah means peace of reassurance or spirit of tranquility.)
Christian: Jesus in our hearts, Emmanuel "God with us".
(Jesus also associated with judgment, mercy, forgiveness, love. Jesus is prince of peace.)

Ark: "ark of God", "ark of the lord"
Jesus: called "lord", "son of God", lamb of God

Ark: most holy place, holy of holies "or three holy ones"?
Most Holy Place of Tabernacle contained golden censor and ark of the covenant.
Jesus: Father, Son and Spirit in our hearts.
(Golden censer might represent holy spirit?)

Ark: word for ark in Hebrew is aron or arek, while in gentile it is kibotos or cistae.
Jesus: Christ(ians)?
(Hislop connected the word Archia/Architis with Ruach "spiritual". Arke is also the word for earth(s) in Jewish legend about Cain? Archons are archangels/aeons in Gnosticism, and in Greek political/state history?)

Jesus: Newton etc saw Jesus as interpreter.
Ark: organ through which God spoke.

Stephen in Acts said Moses said Messiah (Jesus) would be a prophet like himself. He also said Moses was a vey beautiful/handsome baby/child. The ark is a most beautiful golden object.

Ark: Babylonian conquest.
Jesus: Roman invasion.

Ark: may have decayed over centuries/millenia?
Jesus: christianity/church decayed over millenia?

Ark: "Jewish fear of discovery".
Jesus: Jews have been pretty anti-Jesus.

Ark: "unthinkable of excavating [for the ark] until the messiah comes".
Jesus: is the messiah; the ark is symbol of him.

Ark: recovered from Philistines.
Jesus: christianity has mainly been gentiles/Romans between the destruction of Jerusalem and the end times when a remnant third of Jews will be saved.

Ark: Ark and high priest in holy of holies of temple/tabenacle in Hebrews.
Jesus: Jesus is the high priest in Hebrews. However, the temple is our body or heart. We are also (kings and) priests. It seems that we are the priest in our heart/temple. The ark was the central object not the high priest. Jesus is of order of Melchizedek not Levite like the OT high priest; he was/is also Judahite royal messiah not just the Aaronic priestly messiah. The rod of Aaron who was high priest was inside the ark; ark is 'aron' in Hebrew. Aaron means either "lofty, exalted, mountaineer" or "(a) light, enlightener" (or an uncertain Egyptian origin); Jesus was "the light". Jesus doesn't leave our hearts; the ark stays in the temple all the time, the high priest comes and goes (and only once a year).



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 16-Oct-2018 at 01:10
NZ's mandatory fluoridation is not fair because it only forces it on the disadvantaged/some and not on the advantaged/everyone.
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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Oct-2018 at 10:06

Ark of Gregory might be from the ark-like object in Titus arch?



There are a few ancient Greek/Cretan ark-like objects:








NZ's mandatory fluoridation is not fair because it only forces it on the disadvantaged/some and not on the advantaged/everyone.
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  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Oct-2018 at 00:41
A-R while there is a complete lack of a comparison as to what the ark symbolizes in the New Testament, I will still have to reference back to Hebrews chapter 9.   Jesus is the High Priest, so the ark must symbolize something else.   Since the High Priest (who must be ritually pure) is offering the blood to God, I would suspect that the ark represents the Presence of God.  Within it are the tablets (God's Law), the rod of Aaron (God's authority) and the manna (God's providence).
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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Oct-2018 at 02:28

I dont agree that there is a complete lack of comparison. Yes i also did think that also about the Jesus is the high priest in Hebrews, but i don't see it is definitely a contradiction without any solutions. Things are not always all only one set (human) interpretation/view/theory. The temple is our body or heart. We are also priests. It seemed to me that we are the priest. The ark was the central object not the high priest. Jesus is of order of Melchizedek not Levite like the OT high priest; he was/is also Judahite royal messiah not just the Aaronic priestly messiah. The rod of Aaron who was high priest was inside the ark; ark is 'aron' in Hebrew. Aaron means either "lofty, exalted, mountaineer" or "(a) light, enlightener" (or an uncertain Egyptian origin); Jesus was "the light". Jesus doesn't leave our hearts; the ark stays in the temple all the time, the high priest comes and goes (and only once a year).
The golden Ark was a counterpart of the Golden Calf. The calf could be Apis/Hapi/Serapis who is similar to Abel and Jesus. Some said Afikoman could mean "Hapi is found"
 The shekinah or kabod (dove/Jonah?) was above the mercy seat which means the ark cant be God on one hand, but can be associated with the presence of God on other hand (and Jesus was the only begotten presence of God on earth ever). The only physical presence of God on earth is the son of God (Emmanuel "god with us"). "No one has seen the Father except the Son who came down". "He who has seen Me has seen that Father". I agree the Ark is associated with presence of God. It was also golden etc. The ark can only be either the Godhead/Trinity,or Father, or Son, or Spirit. It cant just be Mary or a bishop or the Cross etc.
Jesus kept the law. He said "he who loves me keeps my commandments". We cant save ourselves just by keeping that law (compare Cain, compare the sailors in Jonah 1). Jesus fulfilled the law. He is the Word (which includes to Torah/Law). In the Bible skip code, Yeshua in Torah "points to Leviticus / the Law". He writes the law in our hearts. The first tablet(s) were broken. "The law will go forth from Zion" (Davids city)? "The interpreter of the law" in DSS.
Jesus said he is the manna from heaven.



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 11-Oct-2018 at 05:00
NZ's mandatory fluoridation is not fair because it only forces it on the disadvantaged/some and not on the advantaged/everyone.
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