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eaglecap
Tsar
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Topic: Islam and The World Posted: 27-Jun-2005 at 18:16 |
I chose other because Islam has as many faces as Christianity. Most Muslims are not terrorist and many are peaceful, no different than the rest of us.
The fact that most terrorist are Muslims today does not take away from the fact that only a fraction of them are extreme radicals. I do not think that most take the interpretation of the Koran and Haddith to that extreme.
I heard this: "Most terrorists are Muslims but not all Muslims are terrorist", most are not. Terrorism can have many faces as well and include many other groups.
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Murtaza
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Posted: 27-Jun-2005 at 18:49 |
Quetzalcoatl
Arent Davud(David) and Suleyman is also Prophet of Christianity?
werent they fight? Werent they killed people also?
Rulers and Prophet are two different thing. If I dont know wrong, Jesus is never a ruler. He is just prophet of his people.
I dont think Islam also believe or honor using force. Infact He dont, killing someone is called killing all Humanity.
On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. (Koran, Surah 5, Ayat 32)
Reality is that when west like to thinks muslims as a terrorist,
They dont remember what they did.
They were not better than Muslims.
But when russia killing people, noone tell Christians do this, or when Serbs killing people again noone say christians do this.
Muslims are not sinless but christians are not better than muslims too.
Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/nt.html
Read this too. You can learn something about christianity. They are not as lover as You said.
And People Pls dont make this a religion war. Point is no Double standards pls.
Edited by Murtaza
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Menippos
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Posted: 27-Jun-2005 at 19:14 |
Muratza, you study well and you make good points.
Just one little correction: Davud and Suleyman were not Christian prophets, but Jewish ones. Christianity has its roots in Jewish religion, but the Christians claim that Christ came to show the true path because the Jews had forgotten it. Some of them followed and became Christians, some didn't and remained Jews.
And if you notice, a major difference, and please anyone correct me if I am wrong, is that in Jewish religion "an eye for an eye" is accepteble, whereas in Christian religion "when they slap you on one cheek, give the other cheek too".
Anyway, just to make things clearer.
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CARRY NOTHING
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Jalisco Lancer
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Posted: 27-Jun-2005 at 19:21 |
You are right Mennipos.
As matter of fact, the original christians were jewish that accepted to Jesus as the Mesias waited by the Jewish Nation.
Sorry for my poor knowledge about Islam , but does Jesus is recognized as a Prophet by the muslims ?
See, Islam took some jewish and christian roots.
I was reading the other day some Bahai's books that states that Moses, Jesus and Mahoma were prophets too that prepared the path for Baha Ulha.
Regards
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TheodoreFelix
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Posted: 27-Jun-2005 at 19:33 |
Yes however between the spead or christainity and the spread of Islam to places such as Spain and even the Balkans was that the latter was not all that "peaceful"....
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azimuth
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Posted: 27-Jun-2005 at 19:42 |
Originally posted by Jalisco Lancer
You are right Mennipos. As matter of fact, the original christians were jewish that accepted to Jesus as the Mesias waited by the Jewish Nation.
Sorry for my poor knowledge about Islam , but does Jesus is recognized as a Prophet by the muslims ?
See, Islam took some jewish and christian roots. I was reading the other day some Bahai's books that states that Moses, Jesus and Mahoma were prophets too that prepared the path for Baha Ulha.
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yea they are considered jewish prophets but do christans consider them as prophets?
if yes then they are Prophets in christianity too.
and yes jesus is considered prophet by muslims. also his mother maria is called mariam in Arabic and there is chapter called mariam in the Quran.
they both are respected so as the rest of the prophets.
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Quetzalcoatl
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Posted: 27-Jun-2005 at 19:43 |
Arent Davud(David) and Suleyman is also Prophet of Christianity? |
No they aren't they belong to the ancient testament, they are jewish prophets. Christianity starts with the new testament. The ancient testament is only here as background to understand the event and phophecies of the new testament. But the ancient testament and it's prophets belong to Judaism not christianism. Christianism deals only with Jesus teaching as written by his apostles.
Edited by Quetzalcoatl
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Quetzalcoatl
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Posted: 27-Jun-2005 at 19:49 |
Originally posted by Richard XIII
Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl
I never said muslim = killer. I said christianism preached no violence whatsoever but Islam was founded on violence. A muslim has freewill as far as I know.
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I think we need a turk to explain Quran and Islam, how do you know that Islam is founded on violence and how one billion people with free will are muslim if Islam is a violent religion?
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Don't be a naive fool, open a history for god sake, the arabs invaded and slaughtered large number of people to impose their religion. At their head was the founder of the religion, this man has killed many men. Have you seen Jesus or Buddha at the head of an army invading other people, they'll rather suffer humiliation than use violence.
As for the crusade get this right, the crusaders were a violent medieval army thinking they were defending christianity when in reality they are doing what is repulsive to the doctrine. This was because of ignorance of the individuals. Franks were more like warriors, crusade was simply an excuse to get rid of muslim.
I dont think Islam also believe or honor using force. Infact He dont, killing someone is called killing all Humanity. |
If the founder couldn't practice what he preached then what does that make of him. He was the leader of an army, the deaths of every man his army caused is upon his hands. Just like every deaths in Iraq is upon Bush hands.
Edited by Quetzalcoatl
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Miller
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Posted: 27-Jun-2005 at 22:16 |
Originally posted by Murtaza
Arent Davud(David) and Suleyman is also Prophet of Christianity?
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David is not a prophet he is a king in Jewish mythology (or history depending on your point of view) Jewish messiah is going to be direct descendant from David and Jesus is directly traced back to king David per some beliefs
Originally posted by azimuth
and yes jesus is considered prophet by muslims. also his mother maria is called mariam in Arabic and there is chapter called mariam in the Quran.
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Mary/Maria and Mariam are not the same person Mary is mother of Jesus and Mariam is sister of Moses. For some reason in Quran the name Mariam is used to refer to Mary
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Richard XIII
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Posted: 28-Jun-2005 at 02:57 |
Quetzalcoatl
Read some books too, under turks occuppation our Orthodox christianity
was never altered, under Hungary (Catholic christianity) in
Transsylvania our religion was unrecognized three hundreds of years.
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"I want to know God's thoughts...
...the rest are details."
Albert Einstein
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Murtaza
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Posted: 28-Jun-2005 at 10:54 |
Quetzalcoatl
Can you show me a muslim minority who lived 500 year under christian countries?
or 1000 year?
Can you tell me when Christians begin to love each other?(not other people)
Can you tell me what is the difference between Two A-bomb And what Usame did? How many militaric target lived at that cities?
Can you tell me, how all america becomed christian? Can you tell me how many people lives at america, who believe his ancient religion?
If I dont remember there are still some persians who believe his ancient religion.
Can you tell where did you learn life of jesus? and from whom?
Than accuse Islam for using force.
By the way,
and I know all christians are not murderer, all of them are not rapist, they are not sexual maniacs.I know All christians are not killer of innocent. I know there are other christians who dont support what they did.
Edited by Murtaza
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Jalisco Lancer
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Posted: 28-Jun-2005 at 11:03 |
well , I believe that we are mixing in here the religion and the religious banners used for military and political goals as the Crusades.
It is my understanding that the moors allowed to the spaniard christians to keep practicing their religion.
Also, Jerusalem while controlled by the muslims, allowed to the christians and jewish to visit their holly sites, Am I right ?
Edited by Jalisco Lancer
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Murtaza
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Posted: 28-Jun-2005 at 11:08 |
Jalisco Lancer
I am not mixing any thing, I am try to show, If someone accuse Islam because of Usame, Someone can accuse christianity for a lot things too.
But People mostly dont understand this, and when they heard Islam they remember Terorism, I am sure noone of them remember crusaders, A-Bomb or serbs or what they did in America, when they heard Christianity.
Because They choose to remember what they want to prefer.
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Murtaza
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Posted: 28-Jun-2005 at 15:55 |
Jalisco Lancer
If I am not wrong,even they were christians in Saudi Arabia(At Ottoman times)
after 1400 year, Christianity lived there. I am sure noone can live 1400 year under the Islamic sword. Do they?
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Quetzalcoatl
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Posted: 28-Jun-2005 at 22:33 |
Originally posted by Murtaza
Quetzalcoatl
Can you show me a muslim minority who lived 500 year under christian countries?
or 1000 year?
Can you tell me when Christians begin to love each other?(not other people)
Can you tell me what is the difference between Two A-bomb And what Usame did? How many militaric target lived at that cities?
Can you tell me, how all america becomed christian? Can you tell me how many people lives at america, who believe his ancient religion?
If I dont remember there are still some persians who believe his ancient religion.
Can you tell where did you learn life of jesus? and from whom?
Than accuse Islam for using force.
By the way,
and I know all christians are not murderer, all of them are not rapist, they are not sexual maniacs.I know All christians are not killer of innocent. I know there are other christians who dont support what they did.
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LIsten mate you got to read what I've wrote again. I'm not defending the acts of christians, christians can be a wicked and evil bunch. What I'm talking here is the foundation of both religions. Christianism when it was founded was a totally peaceful religion that oppose all form of violence. islam was founded by Muhamad, the man was himself a killer( this is obvious) and many of his doctrines are violent (some aren;t obviously). Now as I said a muslim has freewill, he can choose to follow islam word for word causing great massacres in the process or he can be compassionate trying to interpret it another way, then benefitting the people they've conquered. But this part is irrelevent, I'm talking about the doctrines here. This is simple, I'm not talking about the people who embrace the doctrines and how they themselves interpret the doctrine in question, I'm talking about the orignal doctrines and the founders. Get this right, don't try to answer me unless you understand that.
Edited by Quetzalcoatl
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Miller
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Posted: 29-Jun-2005 at 01:04 |
Quran has many contradictions. Depending on which page you read you can be instructed to be a nice person or be a terrorist, on top of that Quran is not straight text and can be interpreted differently to a large degree. Islam has a lot of traditions that have come from the traditions of nomads livings in one the harshest environment on the planet (arabian desert) and that harshness is reflected in the their traditions. Christianity came from northern middle eastern who lived a more privilege and gentle life and some of that is reflected in Christianity.
Example of A bomb and Serbia are irrelevant. There may have been Christians that did things that are not OK in your book, but A bomb was not used to expand or defend Christianity. If you are looking for examples of event when a bad things were done in the name Christianity there are better examples, but that has nothing to do with character of Islam being good or bad, or followers of Islam having reputation for doing good thing or bad
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Murtaza
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Posted: 29-Jun-2005 at 05:09 |
Miller
Do you think 9/11 made for the name of Religion? They are using It. If they realy care Religion, There are other place Muslim need them. For exp Russia, India. But They choose USA, because of Israel.
They attacked Turkey too. A jhad cannot be made against Muslims.
Christianity came from northern middle eastern who lived a more privilege and gentle life and some of that is reflected in Christianity.
Miller When Christianity learned love is their main part?
Because There were Sufist at 1000-1100 when christians killing each other.
Quetzalcoatl
Muhammed is killer because he fight against other? Did you realy read Islam history? Do you know when Islamic calendar begin?
It begin with the muslims hegira from Mekke. They were sufferer at first.
He is also a ruler. I told this before and you just dont care.
He didnt die like Jesus. And I dont understand why he should just let his people die?
Again who teach you life of jesus?
What is orjinal doctrines of christianity? where did you learn them?
And Who told you doctrines of Islam is to use force?
They used for because of their survival. Not to spread Islam. There were christians at the Suidi Arabia. I am sure It is enough to show, Their aim is not to spread Islam by force. If their aim is this, There would be no christian atfer 1400 year. Even jihat itself should be defensive. Use force should be defensive.
So Muslims who make jihat aggresive didnt follow rules of islam.
Quran has many contradictions. Depending on which page you read you can be instructed to be a nice person or be a terrorist, on top of that Quran is not straight text and can be interpreted differently to a large degree. Islam has a lot of traditions that have come from the traditions of nomads livings in one the harshest environment on the planet (arabian desert) and that harshness is reflected in the their traditions. Christianity came from northern middle eastern who lived a more privilege and gentle life and some of that is reflected in Christianity.
Yes you are right Quran has many contradiction, Because You should choose acording to Situation. There is not one true in all situation.
And Infact, If we accept people accepted Islam, and did what Quran told him, Noone can say Islam is a harsh religion.
Edited by Murtaza
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Murtaza
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Posted: 29-Jun-2005 at 05:29 |
Isnt It is weird? When Christians become more religious, They become more harsh? Now we have secular christian countries and They were better.
A little contradiction? If doctorine of christians are just love, I am sure more religious christians should be more gentle.
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malizai
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Posted: 02-Jan-2006 at 23:17 |
from what i read on a poll on a muslim website some time ago post 9/11.(from that which stuck in the head)
the common opinion of the western governments in muslim lands is 80% see them as oppressors and hypocrites.
60% think of people of western nations as being reasonable.(excluding america).
85% thinks of americans as being arrogant and selfish.
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To understand the chase, you must learn to run with the rabbit and hunt with the hound.
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Jhangora
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Posted: 03-Jan-2006 at 02:54 |
Arabia.
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Jai Badri Vishal
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