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 Topic: 2 immense Easter Island achievementsPosted: 20-Apr-2008 at 04:41 |
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Maui man takes canoe navigation high-tech
A Maui man who worked on the groundbreaking computer-generated film "Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within" is using the same cutting-edge technology to preserve and spread knowledge of two ancient Hawaiian traditions. Ronald Perry, proprietor of Pacific Archiving of Napili, hopes to launch interactive Polynesian navigation simulation software in June and has a longer-term project to archive hula performances using motion-capture technology the technique employed to create lifelike characters in "Final Fantasy," which was released last year.
Perry, 34, worked as technical director/set designer for the $135 million film's Motion Capture Department and was also technical director of the acclaimed 'Ulalena stage show in Lahaina until October. He is probably better known for using computers to design award-winning sets, sound, lights and special effects for Honolulu theater productions. The Punahou alumnus said a lifelong love of sailing and appreciation for the feats of Polynesian seafarers inspired him to tackle the navigation simulation project, meant for education and entertainment. The simulation will allow users to travel in a traditional double-hulled voyaging canoe among 300 Pacific islands using celestial markers and other indicators, such as driftwood and seabirds. Perry said users don't need to be familiar with astronomy or ocean currents to play. Users start by choosing a location from a clickable map, coordinates, or random placement within Oceania. Navigators are given no additional information and are left to explore by their own devices. The primary screen is an interactive 3-D view from the canoe deck. The user is restricted to the vessel, but the canoe can sail and steer in any direction, except into the wind. Stars in the sky can be highlighted, connected or named for use as personal indicators. As the voyage progresses, navigators must react to storms, cloudy nights when the stars are not visible, and other weather and ocean conditions. Perry said he is still refining the project but plans to have the simulation ready for sale as a CD-ROM or downloadable from his Web site by summer. The Polynesian navigation software is targeted at upper elementary school ages and older.
While finishing work on the simulation, Pacific Archiving's chief business remains virtual tours of vacation rentals, luxury real-estate properties and other projects, such as a virtual tour of the Maui Arts & Cultural Center's Castle Theater and a computer model of a newly designed foot strap for windsurfing. Perry is also making arrangements to acquire a portable motion-capture system that will allow him to visit different hula halau and record dance movements. Using markers placed on different parts of the human body and multiple cameras, motion-capture photography records sequences of movement and generates three-dimensional information. The computer archive of hula performances could be used for instruction and to preserve the unique styles of prominent kumu hula, Perry said. Users who access the archive for a fee would be able to control the animation and manipulate the camera controls to study the performance from any point of view. Perry said he has received an enthusiastic response from the kumu hula about the project. O'ahu kumu hula John Keola Lake, who is working with Bishop Museum on a special hula exhibit to open early next year, said that, generally, he sees nothing wrong with mixing ancient art and modern technology. "With the technology we have today, we've got to move with it and use it. As long as it doesn't offend anyone and it preserves the integrity, that's great," he said. More information on Perry's work is on the Web. Reach Christie Wilson at cwilson@honoluluadvertiser.com or (808)244-4880. |
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Posted: 15-Apr-2008 at 05:27 |
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Well, linguistic pseudoscience of matchings is the more common hoax in pseudo-history. Clowns of all caliber use pattern matching in linguistic to prove that the first Chineses were Black and that the Greek is related with Indonesian.
I learn that in the Hall of Maat
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Sander
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Posted: 15-Apr-2008 at 04:27 |
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Connection aint the same as affiliation/common origin of the languages.
 That aint the case. What they mean is a linguistic connection regarding some loanwords.Edited by Sander - 15-Apr-2008 at 05:00 |
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Posted: 15-Apr-2008 at 03:42 |
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"Valparairosa". Do you mean Valparaiso?
 Polynesian similar to Mapudungun? That's weird. I woud never have imagined a connection. Is like comparing Spanish with Korean. In fact I could never confuse "Iorana" with "Mari Mari". I know a little bit of both, given that they are languages of the original peoples of my country.
Some researchers are pretty wild, indeed. I still can recall the time when Thor Heyyerdhal was a "prestigious" anthropologist; unlike today when he is seen as a clown
Edited by pinguin - 15-Apr-2008 at 03:43 |
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Sander
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Posted: 15-Apr-2008 at 03:35 |
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Weird ? Dont be modest , Its priceless. Behold , the surfing chicken doing 1000 's miles !
Pinguin, go to the open sea , throw a plank or treetrunk in it. You see the sea moving ? the waves ? Do you see the plank making circles, going up and down ? You see the water going over it? Now, throw a chicken on it . How many minutes we give it? Whoops ! a high wave , splash ! See it floating for some time. too bad, the feathers aint waterproof. What a waste of a good chicken.
 We concentrate on the attested processes, human mediated transmission.
Not likely at all. Without Polynesians on it , its at the sea bottom pretty soon. Polynesian vessels were seaworthy for very long distances but only as long as Polynesian took care of it. Bailing from the crew is needed , because of leaking and water going over the freeboard.
"We know that the former big voyaging canoes did leak at the seams and required bailing as indeed all seagoing canoes do today. But this fact reflects the difficulty of obtaining watertight joinings betweens planks of flexible vessels and is not related to structural strenght. " ( Lewis 1975 :79 )
Therefore, Pinguin. It would appreciated if you refer to relevant studies when you assert something . Thanx Lewis , David, We, The Navigators: The Ancient Art of Landfinding in the Pacific, University of Hawaii Press, Honolulu, 1975.  Indeed, the cultural and linguistic connection between the Polynesians and Mapuche is discussed in several papers. It seems that the researchers of University Berkely California and Universidad de Valparairosa, involved in several reseach projects on the polynesian -america contact have pretty much accepted precolumbian arrival of Polynesians and exchanging in some fields. Research is concentrating on the extent of the mutual influences and narrowing down the time of arrival(s). More of this later.
Edited by Sander - 15-Apr-2008 at 06:27 |
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Posted: 15-Apr-2008 at 01:46 |
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Well, for me it is funny the comparison between Leif Ericsson and Christopher Columbus. First, because the epic of Ericsson was just crossing from Greenland to Labrador in a very boring trip. In fact, in clear days it is possible to see the Americas from Greenland, so there wasn't anything extraordinary in that trip. Perhaps more important that Ericsson landing it was Eric the Red reaching Greenland. That was really an interesting trip, just considering the distance it separates Greenland from Iceland.... Well, not that much, but in those times that distance could have been considered huge.
Anyways, even more funny is that nor Ericsson or Columbus had any idea of what they were doing
. The first guy that realized a New World was there at the West it was Americo Vespucci, and that's way the Western Hemisphere carries his name. |
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rider
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Posted: 14-Apr-2008 at 17:11 |
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And you just proved my statement? What's so funny in that...?
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Posted: 12-Apr-2008 at 05:20 |
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Quite interesting, indeed. The likelihood of a pre-columbian Polynesian origin for the Araucana chicken is very high, according to that research. However, does it proves that Polynesian visited the Americas, directly? I would say, no.
The problem is the following. Of course chickens don't fly so they can't cross an ocean so vast like the Pacific by its own means
. They have to reached the Americas in a floating platform with food to survive. For that, though, it is not necesary that humans accompanied them.Sound weird? Nope.
Although Polynesians were very skillful, they lost many expeditions and theirs legend record people that went into exploring the ocean and that never returned. Many of those expeditions ended in tragedy. It is very likely one of those boats lost its tripulation and survived with some chicken at sea during a month or so, reaching the Americas. Or it is also very likely Polynesians reached the Americas and were killed on site. Which was what the Mapuches usually did with foreign sailors up to recent times
. In both cases, the boats served to carried the chickens but the sailors didn't survive the journey.That's why I ask for archaeological and other evidences to corraborate a contact that, by your evidence shown above, it is very likely to happens.
By the way, I got the suspiction that contact really happened, because certain cultural patterns I have already mentioned. However, while there is not a Polynesian site or archeological remains of Polynesian presence in the Americas, the proof would continue to be weak.
By the way, this is the famous Araucanian (Mapuche) Chicken, which lacks a "tail" and that put blue eggs. Very weird, indeed
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Posted: 12-Apr-2008 at 04:40 |
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That's curious, Rider. I always knew Cabot was the first European to reach North America during the Age of Discovery. Of course, the absolutely first European to do that was the norse Leif Ericsson but, unfortunately for him, very few people knew about its achievements before the 19th century
, and he was forgotten by history already in the 15th century. |
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Sander
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Posted: 11-Apr-2008 at 13:55 |
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Indeed , its very likely. Needles to say that good research rather concludes on basis of all the available data instead of what aint there.
And linguistics and - in many cases - archeaological evidence are direct evidence of contact between people. Especially when they are separated by oceans and transmission by man is the only attested process in specific cases.
Well then, read some specialized academic papers instead of that Hall of Maat stuff !
Then you would also know that , for decades, pre- contact kumara cultivation is generally agreed. Just as it is scientifically established to be pre european in the americas, so it is for the pacific. Both are hard to deny . See for example link to the PNAS article that next to the chicken research , mentions some studies about the pre-contact sweet potato.
Regarding the chicken. I mentioned conclusive and if you know what conclusive means in academic reseach , you will easily reckonize that the chicken evidence is presented in the article as conclusive evidence for contact. Hint: read the part under the heading conclusion.
That those researchers from the involved universities/instutions - not only American, Australian, New Zealand but even Chilenean (Ramirez , Universidad de Valparaiso) -regard it as conclusive aint surprising. Domesticated chickens that live on Polynesian islands in the middle of the open ocean dont leave them and cross 1000 miles of open water to a continent unless aided by humans.
Edited by Sander - 11-Apr-2008 at 18:06 |
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rider
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Posted: 10-Apr-2008 at 16:07 |
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To be honest, I've seen quite few works that have been believable and have spoken about the possibility of the trip that John Cabot did in 1497 - making him reaching the continental North America before others.
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Posted: 09-Apr-2008 at 03:51 |
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Thanks
Well, although anything that float could made the trip, that doesn't mean necesarily that happened. There is no evidence whatsoever of Phoenicians comming to the Americas.... except in the Book of Mormon, of course
Well, the trip from Easter Island to the West is not as easy as it seem. First they have to travel 3.800 km in straight line to reach the Americas, or at least 5.000 kilometers in practise. Now, Easter Island had a very narrow time window to do that, because after some centuries of living there, the Easter people extinguished the palm tree, from which boats were made. Between 8th AD and 12th AD it is possible they could have tried the trip to the Americas. It is not impossible, just that evidence is still in debate.
If not from Easter Island, the trip would have taken 7.000 kilometers more or less, which is a trip perhaps beyond what polynesians would do. I am not sure though.
More important, perhaps, are the currents. They would had to travel south, very close to the pole, before reaching the Americas.
Now, with respect to travelling from Europe to the Americas, if you see the sea currents will notice that reaching Europe from North America is a lot easier than the other way around. Curiously enough, Europe (Ireland, Scandinavia) receive very often boats and floating trunks comming from the Americas. There are quite a bit of testimony of people arriving there as well, probably Inuits or even North American indians. That that could sound fantastic the first time you hear it, has a lot more support that the travel the other direction. In fact, even in the biography of Columbus is mentioned the visit of "Indians" to Ireland, witnessed by the admirald.
Reaching the americas from Africa at the equatorial latitud is also possible, but Africans didn't have ships and lacked the sail at the time the pseudoscientific claims of afrocentrist pretends.
In the end, the only verified contacts before Columbus so far are the migration of Inuits during the last two milenium to North America and then to Greenland, and the settlement of norse in New Foundland during the 10th century. All the rest, so far, is fantastic speculation.
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DSMyers1
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Posted: 08-Apr-2008 at 18:41 |
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Excellent work, Pinguin!
The topic of early ocean travel is very interesting to me, though I have not studied very much on it. From what I have seen, the Polynesians were far and away the best navigators of the ancient times. However, I don't think it out of the question that Phoenicians or Romans could have crossed the Atlantic. Since the target is so large, all it takes is a boat seaworthy of the crossing and someone dumb enough to head that direction. If I remember correctly, they certainly had ships that could have made the crossing. I don't know about the "dumb enough" part--it is possible that some could well have been certain enough of a round earth that they were willing to try it. Apparently, however, the contact was insignificant.
A similar argument, based purely on logic, would say that Polynesians almost certainly landed in the Americas. Hitting Easter Island is a very difficult target, and the first explorers likely wouldn't have known its existance (I don't know anything about how they would have figured out where land was from a great distance away). If they were out to explore and were brave enough, they would likely have just kept on going (obviously, somebody went 1500km!). At that point, making it back would have been hard, particularly if they were following the prevailing winds.
Has anyone discussed the trade winds of that region?
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Posted: 08-Apr-2008 at 17:35 |
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Sanders, you know the "proofs" of contact are indirect. Yes, the chances are high it may happened, but the fact remain there is not arqueological remains of human manufacturing, of polynesian origin, in the Americas... so far. Chickens and sweet potatoes are indirect evidence, which is inconclusive if taken by itself. It is my oppinion, anyway.
By the way, feel free to cite "every reputable academic institution" that believes the sweet potato controversy is settled. It will be a very interesting novelty for me to find out the controversy died out. I also invite you to show me that all the academics agree the chicken's evidency is final.
By the way, the name of my country is Chile and not Chili, which is Mexican for Hot Pepper Edited by pinguin - 08-Apr-2008 at 17:53 |
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Sander
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Posted: 08-Apr-2008 at 17:12 |
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Misrepresentation. Every reputable academic instution knows, for decades, that sweet potato cultivation is pre-columbian in the pacific. In case some Hall of Maat stuff is brought up again: Its not a scholarly institution and the article itself is lousy , even by Hall of Maat standards . Some guy refers to Donald Brand, a scholar who suggested a post columbian spead. What he forgets to say is that Donald Brand not only represented a minorirty view in his own days ( the 1950 and 1960s ) but also suggested it 3 decades (!) before the archeological discoveries proved its pre colombian at many places in the pacific. No wonder the writer does not include the book and publishing date in his references . Very embarassing. The pre-colombian bones of the polynesian chicken - 50 bones of more than 5 chickens ( so not one) - in Chili ( El Arenal ) have provided solid scientific evidence of contact and is by many seen as conclusive proof. As we all know, Polynesians navigate but chickens dont. Scientific world could hardly have wished for better evidence . ( The study and results can be found easily on the net ). 'Arguments ' that pigs ( or other things ) are not in the americas make no sense. The pig did not make it to new zealand ( and some other settled islands) either and this was real settlement instead of only contact. More over, we concentrate on things that are introduced/exchanged , not on those that arent. Its about contact , not settling, so nobody expects massive acculturation or a genetic imprint. Edited by Sander - 08-Apr-2008 at 17:21 |
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rider
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Posted: 08-Apr-2008 at 16:59 |
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Time is relative.
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Posted: 07-Apr-2008 at 20:06 |
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Rider, by the time Phoenicians were progressing in the art of navigating the Mediterranean sea, Austronesian people were already sailing long trips from Taiwan to South East Asia, getting ready to conquer Madagascar and the far away island of Hawaii, Tahiti, Easter and New Zealand. |
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rider
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Posted: 07-Apr-2008 at 18:37 |
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Hmmh. The paragraph about Phoenicians only proved their remarkable progress in a relatively short time.
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Posted: 07-Apr-2008 at 01:34 |
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Well, I am afraid it is possible Polynesians had reached the Americas with theirs catamarans. The only problem with that is that the evidence is weak.
You know, Polynesians didn't only travel for fun. They carried a very impresive culture that included farm animals like pigs and chickens, and some vegetables like the tree of bread (from which they actually made their bread). Of them, only the chicken in the Araucania (Mapuche region in south-central Chile) it is -perhaps- the single evidence of Polynesian contact. Other evidence is the sweet potato, but specialists aren't sure if the spread happened before or after columbus. There are some other weak signs, like the curanto (cooking in stoned holes) and perhaps some designs of canoes in the people of the channels in Chiloe, Chile. However, no single cultural element, settlement, genetical traces or skeletons of Polynesians has been found so far in the Americas. I mention Chile often because is one of the more likely places for that contact.
If it ever happened, the more likely times of contact are between the 7th and 14th century A.D. for reasons that are too complicated to resume in a paragraph. But if happened, the contact was very sporadical and did affect the evolution of Amerindian societies.
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red clay
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Posted: 06-Apr-2008 at 17:34 |
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Nice research, except if you go to the bottom of the Phoenecian page you'll see that this is only one man's opinion. That aside the information about the speed and durability of the Polynesian's ships is impressive, as is the information about their navigational prowess. Considering all this, tell us again how it isn't possible that the Polynesians reached the Americas.
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"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown. |
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