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Why were the City of London's gates destroyed?

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Mercian View Drop Down
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  Quote Mercian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Why were the City of London's gates destroyed?
    Posted: 24-Feb-2008 at 12:07
We know all seven were destroyed between 1760 and 1762, but anyone any idea of specifically why? Improving thoroughfares, and general expansion of the City's boundaries doesn't seem adequate enough reason to destroy all seven such known landmarks at the same time.

I tried looking up about the PM at the time, Pelham, the Duke of Newcastle, but couldn't find any policy references.

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  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Feb-2008 at 21:50
Originally posted by Mercian

We know all seven were destroyed between 1760 and 1762, but anyone any idea of specifically why? Improving thoroughfares, and general expansion of the City's boundaries doesn't seem adequate enough reason to destroy all seven such known landmarks at the same time.

I tried looking up about the PM at the time, Pelham, the Duke of Newcastle, but couldn't find any policy references.

Cheers!
Smile
 
As happened with many other European cities, those gates, and the walls that they punctuated, had become useless impediments to growth, and would have required resources for maintenance.
 
Berlin had a complete fortified system around the enceinte of the old city.  It was demolished.  Vienna's old fortifications, that withstood Turkish siege twice, were demolished to make way for the Ringstrasse in the 19th century.  Most of the 16th century fortifications in Italy have disappeared (but the city of Lucca still has a complete trace Italienne around the Renaissance town).  Spain was not the scene of much invasion in the last 500 years, so the remaining fortifications of the larger Spanish towns tend to be medieval....there are probably more of those left there than in north or west Europe.
 
London had no need of fortifications or city gates, certainly after the period of the civil wars.  In any event, whatever had been there would have been long obsolete.
 
 
 
 
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  Quote Mercian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2008 at 04:02

Thanks for the reply.

I know that that's the assumption, but I was wondering if anyone had anything any more concrete about it. There must have been considerable debate: all of the gates' wooden predecessors had been replaced with wider stone ones less than a century before specifically as landmarks (they were already largely redundant) presumably at considerable public cost, and then commememorated in a series of commisioned engravings.
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  Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2008 at 17:16
You seem to assume that the fact these gates were landmarks or monuments must in itself have been a reason to consider to preserve them in spite of them having become redundant or even bothersome. But historical awareness is a relatively new thing. It was not until the nineteenth century, with the emergence of nationalsm and national pride, and the subsequent awareness of historical pride and the uprise of scientific approach towards history that the idea that buildings needed to be preserved for the sole purpose of preservation of landmarks that any such considerations would be taken into account when deciding the fate of such buildings. From an eithteenth century point of view, a building like a gate or city wall which had lost its purpose (it was no longer needed as a defence) and which was in the way (they would severely hamper traffic), and wich would cost an enormous amount of money for upkeep had no real right to exist. So intact defensive works only still exist in towns where their existance was no real problem, because they could still be used, or because they were not in the way so much that the cost of destroying them was not worth the effort of removing them. In such a big city like London, this was clearly not so, and the demolition of the gates therefore not surprising.

Edited by Aelfgifu - 10-Mar-2008 at 17:17

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  Quote Mercian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Mar-2008 at 02:34
Originally posted by Aelfgifu

You seem to assume that the fact these gates were landmarks or monuments must in itself have been a reason to consider to preserve them in spite of them having become redundant or even bothersome.
You're assuming I'm assuming! Smile I don't think you can have quite got the meaning of my first two posts... I didn't assume any such thing: according to Wikipedia, most of the gates were knocked down and rebuilt in stone (which in itself must have been costly and laborious) in the late 1600s, just one hundred years before they were destroyed. At this point, they were already redundant, and according to contemporary accounts seem to have been wanted just as landmarks. This can also be seen by the series of prints commissioned of them soon after: they were already a source of civic (and maybe national?) pride it seems.
 
They were also widened... at a time when it was already acknowledged that they had outlived their function.
 
Given the illogical and impractical aspect of that last fact, and also given that their use as hospitals, prisons and other randomly assigned and historical functions was being continued, there must have been some debate. It's that hundred years plus of debate as to the legitimacy of rebuilding such useless artefacts between the landowners, lawmakers, traders and whatever passed for town planners in those days that I'm interested in, and how it came to be eventually (a mere hundred years later) that they were deemed totally disposable.
 
Originally posted by aelgifu

But historical awareness is a relatively new thing. It was not until the nineteenth century, with the emergence of nationalsm and national pride, and the subsequent awareness of historical pride and the uprise of scientific approach towards history that the idea that buildings needed to be preserved for the sole purpose of preservation of landmarks that any such considerations would be taken into account when deciding the fate of such buildings.
Yes and no. I would have said that national pride is most definitely not a preserve of the nineteenth century. And while in Britain there seems to have been a uniquely (and violently!) utilitarian approach to destroying the unfashionable and deciding what was useless in the first place (nowhere in Europe had a programme of destruction as efficient as Henry VIII's, did they? And nowhere has been quite as joyously vandalistic as the Victorian pragmatists and raiders of antiquity in their promotion of industrialisation, have they?) it seems that the London gates were preserved specifically for antiquity's (or at least aesthetics/nationalism) sake over pragmatism...
 
Originally posted by aelgifu

From an eithteenth century point of view, a building like a gate or city wall which had lost its purpose (it was no longer needed as a defence) and which was in the way (they would severely hamper traffic), and wich would cost an enormous amount of money for upkeep had no real right to exist.
In contrast, I think maybe your sensibilities in this case are very 20th century! You are assuming that the powers that be in the 18th century were as concerned with practical economics as we are. I know there were a lot of prominent economic and social movements in those days, but I don't know to what extent they affected the physical infrastructure: and that is precisely why I was interested in whether anybody had any references to/knowledge of the decision-making process as it was then.


Edited by Mercian - 25-Mar-2008 at 02:40
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