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Which rulers were better:Sassanians or Achaemenians

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Poll Question: Which rulers were better:Sassanians or Achaemenian?
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12 [31.58%]
19 [50.00%]
6 [15.79%]
1 [2.63%]
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Which rulers were better:Sassanians or Achaemenians
    Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 12:26
I just wanted to see what most people think?
(would appreciate to see the reasons)
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  Quote Imperatore Dario I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 15:27
I like the Achaemenian Persia best. It's not only because I was named after King Dariush I, but also because erm....

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  Quote Dari Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 16:22
The Sassanian dynasty emulated the Achaemenid dynasty, that reason alone should make us understand who is the influence. But the Sassanids did last over four hundred years, with more able Emperors and rulers while the Achaemenids did control more territory. It's a toss-up.


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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 17:22

jamshidi_f, I think you're GREAT!

Great to see more iranian patriots!

 

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  Quote Tonifranz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 17:29
The Achaemaenid Dynasty, since they were the largest Empire the world has ever seen during it's height of power, covering lands as far west as Thrace and Libya and as far east as India. Sassanian Empire didn't even match it's size during it's height. It didn't even hold Egypt and Palestine.
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  Quote ArmenianSurvival Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 18:11

Originally posted by Tonifranz

The Achaemaenid Dynasty, since they were the largest Empire the world has ever seen during it's height of power, covering lands as far west as Thrace and Libya and as far east as India. Sassanian Empire didn't even match it's size during it's height. It didn't even hold Egypt and Palestine.

Actually, the Mongol Empire was the largest empire the world has ever seen.

The Sassanians were not very humane, they forced the Zoroastrian Religion upon their subjects and even waged a 33 year war against Armenia when we refused to give up Christianity.

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  Quote Imperatore Dario I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 18:37
Originally posted by ArmenianSurvival

Originally posted by Tonifranz

The Achaemaenid Dynasty, since they were the largest Empire the world has ever seen during it's height of power, covering lands as far west as Thrace and Libya and as far east as India. Sassanian Empire didn't even match it's size during it's height. It didn't even hold Egypt and Palestine.

Actually, the Mongol Empire was the largest empire the world has ever seen.

The Sassanians were not very humane, they forced the Zoroastrian Religion upon their subjects and even waged a 33 year war against Armenia when we refused to give up Christianity.

 

And Armenia proved to be a pretty toy for the Roman Empire, as our troops supported the Armenians agaisnt thee Sassanians (what a sexy name lol).


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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 19:27

The size of the territories is not the question. Moreover, the difference of size is not big because the Achaemenid Empire was 6 millions square kilometers and the Sassanian Empire was 5,2 millions.

For the Achaemenids, Cyrus was a great conqueror but not a great ruler. Darius was a very great ruler. 

For the Sassanians, as very great ruler, there are Khosrow I, Ardeshir, Shapur I, Shapur II and Khosrow II.

The perfection of their organization, their economy and wealth (they possessed the occidental part of India (just Indus for the Achaemenids)), shows us that even if the Sassanians had been very influenced by the Achaemenid's rule, this last had been improved by Sassanians. To the Achaemenid's rule, Sassanians added some Seleucid and Roman influences.

The Sassanian Empire existed during four centuries (two time more than Achaemenid Empire) and has resisted and even won against the Roman Empire, Gokturk Empire and Byzantine Empire.

 



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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 21:29
Sassanians! Mainly my military intrest no societal reasons.
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  Quote Dari Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 22:10
Originally posted by Noacyl

The size of the territories is not the question. Moreover, the difference of size is not big because the Achaemenid Empire was 6 millions square kilometers and the Sassanian Empire was 5,2 millions.

For the Achaemenids, Cyrus was a great conqueror but not a great ruler. Darius was a very great ruler. 

For the Sassanians, as very great ruler, there are Khosrow I, Ardeshir, Shapur I, Shapur II and Khosrow II.

The perfection of their organization, their economy and wealth (they possessed the occidental part of India (just Indus for the Achaemenids)), shows us that even if the Sassanians had been very influenced by the Achaemenid's rule, this last had been improved by Sassanians. To the Achaemenid's rule, Sassanians added some Seleucid and Roman influences.

The Sassanian Empire existed during four centuries (two time more than Achaemenid Empire) and has resisted and even won against the Roman Empire, Gokturk Empire and Byzantine Empire.

 

I beg to differ. Cyrus is considered not only one of the top five greatest conquerors/emperors, but also one of the greatest rulers in history.



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  Quote Tonifranz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Aug-2004 at 03:11

Originally posted by ArmenianSurvival

Actually, the Mongol Empire was the largest empire the world has ever seen.

What I meant was, during it's height, the world has never seen any empire larger than it! The Mongol Empire would still be far to the future, I think.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Aug-2004 at 05:41

Originally posted by Tobodai

Sassanians! Mainly my military intrest no societal reasons.

Yes, The Sassanian army was the best of the world and more efficient than Achaemenid army. Ardeshir created it with his knowledges in military tactics and technics. This Army had different influences as Scythian, Achaemenid, Macedonian, but also Roman (in particular for the poliorcetic). Moreover, Khosrow instituted a professionnal army. This army was so good that Byzantine Empire copied it. The Sassanian army defeated the Roman, Hephtalite, Gokturk and Byzantine Empires.

 

Originally posted by Dari

I beg to differ. Cyrus is considered not only one of the top five greatest conquerors/emperors, but also one of the greatest rulers in history.

Yes, Cyrus is one of the greatest conquerors (even if he was defeated many times, even if he won because he betrayed, and even if he defeated many countries without fighting) But as ruler, It's different. His empire was very fragile and there was a lot of rebellions.

Fortunately, Darius changed the Achaemenid politic and created a strong empire.

 



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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Aug-2004 at 13:42

Was the Mongol empire cohesive in teh same way?  Anyway, I think both were great in different ways.  But I like the Sassanians way better.

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  Quote Dari Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Aug-2004 at 14:06

The Sassanians were also more like the Achaemenids because unlike the Parthians and Greek City-States, they had a cohesive central government. However, when the hell did the Sassanids fight the Goturks?

Number 2, Cyrus has actually only suffered few military defeats in his reign. The last being to the one in which ended his life against a particularly vicious Iranian tribe of warriors.

Besides, his empire was not as fragile as you believe to be. Those rebellions in which you speak did not happen till late into Jaymbes' rule and after Dariush the great usupred power with his comrades from the imposter magi of Smerdis.



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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Aug-2004 at 17:13

Originally posted by Dari

However, when the hell did the Sassanids fight the Goturks?

The Gokturks attacked the Sassanians in 584, 588 and 590. The Gokturks and the Byzantine Empire attacked Hormuz IV with about 300000 soldiers but the Sassanians was too powerful.

Originally posted by Dari

 Cyrus has actually only suffered few military defeats in his reign.

During his reign yes, but before no. He was defeated many times by the Medes and Cyrus won thanks to the betrayal.

Originally posted by Dari

 his empire was not as fragile as you believe to be.

His empire was fragile because he let some local rulers in the territories conquested. This tactic has been efficient to conquest but the power wasn't centralized and, after the conquest, some local rulers wanted to be independants. Darius had to defeat, in 19 battles and 7 years, 9 "kings". He had to reorganized the empire politic in putting 23 Achaemenid rulers (satraps) through the empire. And beside each satrap, there was a military commander and a state secretary. By this way, Darius created a strong and united empire.

 



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  Quote warhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Aug-2004 at 23:21

"Actually, the Mongol Empire was the largest empire the world has ever seen."

Since he was talking about the largest empire of his time, this wasn't his point, and no, the British empire was the largest empire in history.

 

"Yes, The Sassanian army was the best of the world and more efficient than Achaemenid army. Ardeshir created it with his knowledges in military tactics and technics. This Army had different influences as Scythian, Achaemenid, Macedonian, but also Roman (in particular for the poliorcetic). "

 

it was one of the best in the world, but that title is blurry at best. As for the Gokturks they defeated them more often.

 

"The Gokturks attacked the Sassanians in 584, 588 and 590. The Gokturks and the Byzantine Empire attacked Hormuz IV with about 300000 soldiers but the Sassanians was too powerful."

Umm, the turuks defeated the Sassanians in 584 and took bactria away from it. The second war was a Sassanian invasion which succeeded after a desperate struggle in which the Sassanians almost lost, then the third war in which the Sassanians were driven away again

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2004 at 07:37

Originally posted by warhead

Umm, the turuks defeated the Sassanians in 584 and took bactria away from it. The second war was a Sassanian invasion which succeeded after a desperate struggle in which the Sassanians almost lost, then the third war in which the Sassanians were driven away again

Yes, but the turuks were not alone. They were combined with the byzantins. And in the end, the allied have won only the Tokharistan...

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  Quote warhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2004 at 15:45
The main attacker were the turuks and not the byzantines. And the third war was purely turuk without byzantine help.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2004 at 17:10

Originally posted by warhead

And the third war was purely turuk without byzantine help.

Yes, but the turuks took advantage of the civil war between Bahram and Khosrow II.



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  Quote warhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Aug-2004 at 01:13
The sassanians also took the adantage of the civil war between the two Turuk empires in the second war
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