Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Do Black panthers still exist above Mexico?

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
eaglecap View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 15-Feb-2005
Location: ArizonaUSA
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3959
  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Do Black panthers still exist above Mexico?
    Posted: 22-Jan-2008 at 01:10
On Monster Quest - History Channel
They had a show about black panthers in the USA, mostly east coast. The black panther is simply a black jaguar but the only place I know they still exist is along the SW border from Arizona to parts of S. Texas. It would be neat if they still roamed parts of the low 48. I have hiked in the Gila Wilderness area of New Mexico state and found out they had a small population of jaguars that cross the border from Mexico.
For me, this always increases the thrill of being out in the wild and I usually only bring pepper spray and a big knife but that is mainly for the purpose of cutting a splint if I should injure myself and fishing.

Do they still exist or are people just seeing cougars or large black cats?

We only have cougars here and the woods around here are full of them.
Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
Back to Top
Knights View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
suspended

Joined: 23-Oct-2006
Location: AUSTRALIA
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3224
  Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2008 at 01:20
I'm going to say yes, simply because while there are still Jaguars, there is still the chance of getting melanistic Jaguars (the Black Panther). In saying this however, desert Jaguars are rarely if ever found being melanistic because melanism arises more often in damper and darker environments, like the Rainforest. If I hear of one, I'll be sure to let you know.

- Knights -
Back to Top
Panther View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 20-Jan-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 818
  Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2008 at 01:54
It is a possibility, though i think if it is an actuallity, then their numbers would actually be quite small. I will share a few thoughts with you about this...
 
I remember a couple of stories my wife told me when we were first married over 17 years ago. The time period of the story, is around the late 30's - early 40's time frame.  Basically, her grandparents would on occasions, see them at a distance from their house, located on the Texas plains. Of course, i was a bit skeptical about it, after considering several variables, which left too many unanswered questions in my mind, too believe it. Seeing that the scientific consensus of that time was that any chance of a black panther population in the surrounding region, would be practically nil', i did feel a certain amount of justification at dismissing what she was telling me at first, based on the lack of that knowledge not being widely reported at that time. And yet... i didn't tell her about any of my doubts, you know... seeing that she and i were just married and all, which certainly would have had private reprecussions on me that i wasn't yet in the position too deal with, if you are catching my meaning here? Wink
 
 However, the other story that really raised my skepticism into the realms of curiosity and it went something like this, and this is the short version reduced to a single sentence: They would on the much more rare occasions, here the roars in the distance! And only a very few big cats can actually roar. Bare in mind, this is also a very small farming community on the Texas plains, located over sixty miles from the nearest city to it's northeast!
 
So again it is quite possible!
Back to Top
red clay View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
Tomato Master Emeritus

Joined: 14-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10226
  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2008 at 03:43
There are frequent sightings of "large black cats", larger than the Florida Panther, in the Panhandle of Florida.  Our Son inlaw is with the FHP and has seen tracks he could identify as a cat, but larger than anything he knew of.
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
Back to Top
Knights View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
suspended

Joined: 23-Oct-2006
Location: AUSTRALIA
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3224
  Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2008 at 09:22
Originally posted by Panther

They would on the much more rare occasions, here the roars in the distance! And only a very few big cats can actually roar


Well technically, only big cats can roar - it's part of what makes them big cats isn't it? Tigers, Lions, Leopards and Jaguars of course being the only four that can make a proper* "roar" sound. So, if this roaring they could hear was true, there is no chance it is Cougar - it must have been Jaguars. Interesting...

*I don't like to be picky, but Snow Leopards can "half-roar" because their hyoid bone isn't fully developed like a true "Pantherine" Big Cat. Embarrassed

Regards,

- Knights -


Edited by Knights - 22-Jan-2008 at 09:24
Back to Top
Panther View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 20-Jan-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 818
  Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jan-2008 at 02:43
Originally posted by Knights

Originally posted by Panther

They would on the much more rare occasions, here the roars in the distance! And only a very few big cats can actually roar


Well technically, only big cats can roar - it's part of what makes them big cats isn't it? Tigers, Lions, Leopards and Jaguars of course being the only four that can make a proper* "roar" sound. So, if this roaring they could hear was true, there is no chance it is Cougar - it must have been Jaguars. Interesting...

*I don't like to be picky, but Snow Leopards can "half-roar" because their hyoid bone isn't fully developed like a true "Pantherine" Big Cat. Embarrassed

Regards,

- Knights -
 
I was rather pressed for time when i was writng that post. I would like to sincerely thank you for clarifying that most important piece of information for me Knights, which i left out. Smile
 
They don't neccessarily need to be able too roar too be considered a big cat, though they aren't true Pantherines, as we understand them. As far as i am concerned, and with me not being in my scientific mode. If a cat is big enough to have me for breakfast, lunch and or dinner, as well as using my bones too clean t's teeth with, and... needs to be kept in some sort of confinemnet for the general public to safely see; Then yes, imho... that makes them a dangerous enough threat for a big cat, that we would have to be continuously very cautious around.
 
 
The Cougar, Puma, mountain lion and the Florida Panther as other names i believe they go by, i believe can still be found as far the US is concerned, from the wild of the Texas Big Bend park reserve, all the way up into the Colorado mountains and in certain parts of Florida of course! I do believe the Florida Panthers are still on the protected species list, though i am not certain?
 
I don't ever think you are being picky. The Snow Leopard is one of the big cats i know the least about Embarrassed. I would like to thank you again. This time for sharing that bit of your knowledge with me! This great stuff!
Back to Top
eaglecap View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 15-Feb-2005
Location: ArizonaUSA
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3959
  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jan-2008 at 19:25
From what I have read they can weigh from 200-300 pounds whereas a mountain lion wieghs from 100- at most around 200. We have plenty of Mountains lions here but the jaguar never made it to the Pacific NW. Unless there have been any sightings of those black panther, I heard about this on coast to coast am radio show but remain skeptical.
Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
Back to Top
Knights View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
suspended

Joined: 23-Oct-2006
Location: AUSTRALIA
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3224
  Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2008 at 02:32
Originally posted by Panther

I was rather pressed for time when i was writng that post. I would like to sincerely thank you for clarifying that most important piece of information for me Knights, which i left out. Smile
 
They don't neccessarily need to be able too roar too be considered a big cat, though they aren't true Pantherines, as we understand them. As far as i am concerned, and with me not being in my scientific mode. If a cat is big enough to have me for breakfast, lunch and or dinner, as well as using my bones too clean t's teeth with, and... needs to be kept in some sort of confinemnet for the general public to safely see; Then yes, imho... that makes them a dangerous enough threat for a big cat, that we would have to be continuously very cautious around.
 
The Cougar, Puma, mountain lion and the Florida Panther as other names i believe they go by, i believe can still be found as far the US is concerned, from the wild of the Texas Big Bend park reserve, all the way up into the Colorado mountains and in certain parts of Florida of course! I do believe the Florida Panthers are still on the protected species list, though i am not certain?
 
I don't ever think you are being picky. The Snow Leopard is one of the big cats i know the least about Embarrassed. I would like to thank you again. This time for sharing that bit of your knowledge with me! This great stuff!


I've had many a conversation about Feline classification, and how they are seen systematically as opposed to the common names. It's really just arbitrary, so neither of us are wrong. Smile

Yeh Cougars have a huge range still, stretching from Southern Canada all the way down to Patagonia (including Florida). And yes, the Florida Panther is highly endangered, I think classified as "endangered" or even "critically endangered" (as a subspecies) by the IUCN Red List. The Cougar as a species is classified as "Lower Risk", being one of the most abundant Felines.

In case you didn't already know, Snow Leopards are Knights's favourite animal Big%20smile

- Knights -


Edited by Knights - 26-Jan-2008 at 02:32
Back to Top
Panther View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 20-Jan-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 818
  Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2008 at 19:26
Originally posted by Knights


I've had many a conversation about Feline classification, and how they are seen systematically as opposed to the common names. It's really just arbitrary, so neither of us are wrong. Smile
 
I agree, it's not really a big deal.
 

Yeh Cougars have a huge range still, stretching from Southern Canada all the way down to Patagonia (including Florida). And yes, the Florida Panther is highly endangered, I think classified as "endangered" or even "critically endangered" (as a subspecies) by the IUCN Red List. The Cougar as a species is classified as "Lower Risk", being one of the most abundant Felines.

In case you didn't already know, Snow Leopards are Knights's favourite animal Big%20smile

- Knights -
 
I was wrong about their range. I wasn't even aware the range extended up towards Canada. I have an old book on Big Cats dating back to the late eighties that i had based that thought on. My bad! Embarrassed
 
Snow leopards are beautiful animals and quite mysterious; I can certainly see why they are your favorite!
Back to Top
Knights View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
suspended

Joined: 23-Oct-2006
Location: AUSTRALIA
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3224
  Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2008 at 00:59
Well, most maps show slightly different ranges, so it's nothing big. I've come across rather different distribution maps for the Cougar though. Some limit it to Central and West US, while others indicate over the whole of the US. Some also stretch further North than others. For instance:


Source: Hogle Zoo website


Source: National Wildlife Federation


Source: Sask Schools

Personally, when I'm unsure of an animal's distribution I use the encyclopedia "ANIMAL" by Dorling Kindersley - it's pretty reliable when it comes to most things.

Do you think the reason that 80's Big Cat book of yours didn't show its range as extensively because the Cougar has since expanded its range?

Regards,

- Knights -
Back to Top
Panther View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 20-Jan-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 818
  Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Feb-2008 at 10:05
Originally posted by Knights


Do you think the reason that 80's Big Cat book of yours didn't show its range as extensively because the Cougar has since expanded its range?

Regards,

- Knights -
 
I don't know if it is that? But i suspect that the knowledge on their habitat and range has grown quite a bit since then!
Back to Top
Ponce de Leon View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
Lonce De Peon

Joined: 11-Jan-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2967
  Quote Ponce de Leon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2008 at 20:12
I know this is totally off topic and i am sorry but i just have to put this out there. Everytime i see this subject I think its about the Black Panthers of the 1960's. Once again, i am sorry I just had to put it out there
Back to Top
red clay View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
Tomato Master Emeritus

Joined: 14-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10226
  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2008 at 21:29
Knights wrote-
 
And yes, the Florida Panther is highly endangered, I think classified as "endangered" or even "critically endangered". 
 
True, but don't believe the official count of less than 300.  The good news is that there are as many as 1000 still in the wild.  Also, they have expanded their range into southwestern
Georgia as well as Alabama. 
This comes from local wildlife groups as well as police and Hunting clubs.
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
Back to Top
Knights View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
suspended

Joined: 23-Oct-2006
Location: AUSTRALIA
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3224
  Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2008 at 09:13
I'm glad to hear of their comeback - thanks Red. Cool
Back to Top
eaglecap View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 15-Feb-2005
Location: ArizonaUSA
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3959
  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2008 at 21:54
Originally posted by Knights

Well, most maps show slightly different ranges, so it's nothing big. I've come across rather different distribution maps for the Cougar though. Some limit it to Central and West US, while others indicate over the whole of the US. Some also stretch further North than others. For instance:Source: Hogle Zoo websiteSource: National Wildlife FederationSource: Sask SchoolsPersonally, when I'm unsure of an animal's distribution I use the encyclopedia "ANIMAL" by Dorling Kindersley - it's pretty reliable when it comes to most things. Do you think the reason that 80's Big Cat book of yours didn't show its range as extensively because the Cougar has since expanded its range? Regards,- Knights -


We have. like my Aussie friends would say, heap of cougars in my area but no jaguars. I do not fear Mt Lions that much but Jaguars are bigger so I would have more apprehension with those critters. Some Australian friends who now live here told me they worry more about the larger predators here than the snakes and spiders there. My friend's wife said things here can eat you. I laughed!! We only some poisoness spiders here but only timber Rattlers here and no jaguars.
Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.