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Training Day in Spanish

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  Quote Cataln Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Training Day in Spanish
    Posted: 21-Jan-2008 at 18:24
Worst. Movie. Evar.  I love Training Day ... in English.  Giving all characters the same Castillian dialect, on the other hand, ruins the movie.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jan-2008 at 18:52
LOL
I've come to despise dubbing in movies as well. I find it rather more engaging when the movie is in the native language, and he subtitles give a much better feel of authenticity and draw you in more from my personal perspective.
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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jan-2008 at 03:42
It was great in English.
So was it just the dubbing that was the problem? Or did the Castillian version not really give Spanish speakers a "feel" for the whole cop and gangster culture in the US?
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  Quote King John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jan-2008 at 04:00
It wasn't really all that good in English. Definitely not an Oscar worthy performance generally not an Oscar worthy movie
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jan-2008 at 05:16
Originally posted by King John

It wasn't really all that good in English. Definitely not an Oscar worthy performance generally not an Oscar worthy movie


Why not? It effectively portrayed police corruption, and general inner city politics.
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  Quote Cataln Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2008 at 17:02
Originally posted by Constantine XI

It was great in English.
So was it just the dubbing that was the problem? Or did the Castillian version not really give Spanish speakers a "feel" for the whole cop and gangster culture in the US?
 
I've seen it in English and own it in English, and love it.  The problem is definately the dubbing, because in Spain the black and Mexican gang culture doesn't exist and there's no way to accurately dub the different 'street' dialects.  In essence, the dubbing made everyone talk like valley boys (the 'slang' was translated as Spanish teenager talk, like white Californian kids [like me]).  Besides, the dubbing doesn't give justice to Denzel Washington's great acting during the movie (definately Oscar worthy).
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  Quote Cataln Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2008 at 17:03
Originally posted by King John

It wasn't really all that good in English. Definitely not an Oscar worthy performance generally not an Oscar worthy movie
 
Better than 90% of the movies that do win Oscars.  Generally speaking, the film that is considered 'good' is not really that innovative and is just an evolved version of 'cowboys versus Indians'.  To a degree, Training Day departs from this storyline and instead portrays a movie where no side is really good (except maybe the 'good cop').
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  Quote King John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2008 at 23:37
Originally posted by Cataln

Originally posted by King John

It wasn't really all that good in English. Definitely not an Oscar worthy performance generally not an Oscar worthy movie


Better than 90% of the movies that do win Oscars. Generally speaking, the film that is considered 'good' is not really that innovative and is just an evolved version of 'cowboys versus Indians'. To a degree, Training Day departs from this storyline and instead portrays a movie where no side is really good (except maybe the 'good cop').


I would beg to differ, Cataln. Let's look at movies in which Denzel gave oscar worthy performances. We shall start with Spike Lee's Malcolm X. Denzel's acting in that movie was far superior to his acting in Training Day. Next we can move to his role in Glory (although he was only a supporting actor and not the lead) again far superior acting to that in Training Day. He was better in John Q then he was in Training Day. Also his role in remember the Titans was better than his role in Training Day. Don't forget about the Hurricane, you guessed it, better than Training Day That's just from the corpus of his filmography.

Shall we turn our attention to the people he was nominated against. Academy Awards 2002
Russell Crowe - A Beautiful Mind (Winner Best Picture)
Will Smith - Ali
Sean Penn - I am Sam (a far better movie than Training Day and by far a far better performance)
Tom Wilkinson - In the Bedroom (I didn't see this one so I can't comment on it)

So you are saying that Denzel in Training day was better than both Sean Penn and Russell Crowe?

Academy Awards 2000
Denzel Washington - The Hurricane
Kevin Spacey - American Beauty (Winner)
Russell Crowe - The Insider
Richard Farnsworth - The Straight Story
Sean Penn - Sweet and Lowdown

Academy Awards 1993
Denzel Washington - Malcolm X
Al Pacino - Scent of a Woman (Winner)
Robert Downy Jr - Chaplin
Stephen Rea - The Crying Game
CLint Eastwood - Unforgiven

Again a tough field but still Denzel was more deserving of an Oscar in 2000 and 1993 than he was in 2002
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  Quote King John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2008 at 23:40
Originally posted by es_bih


Originally posted by King John

It wasn't really all that good in English. Definitely not an Oscar worthy performance generally not an Oscar worthy movie
Why not? It effectively portrayed police corruption, and general inner city politics.


See my above post - look at the films I provided from his corpus of work for the films that are Oscar worthy. Even if it effectively portrayed police corruption, and general inner city politics (a point which I would argue) that doesn't make Training Day an Oscar worthy film.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jan-2008 at 03:27
Originally posted by King John

Originally posted by es_bih


Originally posted by King John

It wasn't really all that good in English. Definitely not an Oscar worthy performance generally not an Oscar worthy movie
Why not? It effectively portrayed police corruption, and general inner city politics.


See my above post - look at the films I provided from his corpus of work for the films that are Oscar worthy. Even if it effectively portrayed police corruption, and general inner city politics (a point which I would argue) that doesn't make Training Day an Oscar worthy film.


Yes he had had better performances. Yes there are better movies on different subjects. This subject covered however; you have not pointed out a good cross reference for in order for us to point out flaws in the movie. I believe that it portrayed the setting rather well, and his performance wasn't maybe the most preferred. Yes he was a an a--hole in the movie; yes he was not the protagonist in any sense. Nevertheless, he had a good performance in the movie. I see that all the movies you have posted he is either the good guy in or are not of the same genre. Just because you either are disinterested in the genre or not does not matter here, his performance was good, he gave a gritty and intricate performance of a cop with a flawed sense of justice.



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  Quote King John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jan-2008 at 03:57
Originally posted by es_bih


Originally posted by King John

Originally posted by es_bih


Originally posted by King John

It wasn't really all that good in English. Definitely not an Oscar worthy performance generally not an Oscar worthy movie
Why not? It effectively portrayed police corruption, and general inner city politics.


See my above post - look at the films I provided from his corpus of work for the films that are Oscar worthy. Even if it effectively portrayed police corruption, and general inner city politics (a point which I would argue) that doesn't make Training Day an Oscar worthy film.
Yes he had had better performances. Yes there are better movies on different subjects. This subject covered however; you have not pointed out a good cross reference for in order for us to point out flaws in the movie. I believe that it portrayed the setting rather well, and his performance wasn't maybe the most preferred. Yes he was a an a--hole in the movie; yes he was not the protagonist in any sense. Nevertheless, he had a good performance in the movie. I see that all the movies you have posted he is either the good guy in or are not of the same genre. Just because you either are disinterested in the genre or not does not matter here, his performance was good, he gave a gritty and intricate performance of a cop with a flawed sense of justice.


There are better police corruption movies out there than Training Day, see the Departed. The writing in the Departed was far superior to that in Training Day. You even said it yourself he gave a good performance, which I think is debatable. Oscars don't go to good performances, they are meant for great performances.    Did you see LA Confidential? If you want to stay with Denzel movies his performance in American Gangster was better than that of Training Day. The problem with your argument about Training Day is that he actually is the protagonist - which is defined by the Merriam-Webster online dictionary as 1. a. the principle character in a literary work (as a drama or story) b. a leading actor, character, or participant in a literary work or real event. 2. a leader, proponent, or supporter of a cause. By this definition Denzel is the Protagonist in Training Day, had he not been he could not be nominated and win Best Male Lead for his performance. Being a good guy has nothing to do with winning an Oscar or giving a good performance.

By the way you don't know anything about my taste in movies. You also know nothing about which characters I identify with. In all honesty I am a big fan of police movies and film noir. I, also, identify more with the villains than the good guys, so if anything I would like Denzel's character in training day more than his other roles. I don't because the writing wasn't that good, again compared to his other roles and other movies in that genre. Why is this so hard to believe? The movie wasn't that good even if you want to say it was good it wasn't great nor were the performances. Why is it so hard to understand that the Academy gave the Oscar to the wrong performance? It wouldn't be the first time.
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  Quote King John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jan-2008 at 05:07
Originally posted by Cataln

Originally posted by King John

It wasn't really all that good in English. Definitely not an Oscar worthy performance generally not an Oscar worthy movie


Better than 90% of the movies that do win Oscars. Generally speaking, the film that is considered 'good' is not really that innovative and is just an evolved version of 'cowboys versus Indians'. To a degree, Training Day departs from this storyline and instead portrays a movie where no side is really good (except maybe the 'good cop').


By the by what movies that won Oscars are worse than Training Day? Pray tell the names of these movies, please?

Edited by King John - 25-Jan-2008 at 05:10
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jan-2008 at 06:17
Originally posted by King John

Originally posted by es_bih


Originally posted by King John

Originally posted by es_bih


Originally posted by King John

It wasn't really all that good in English. Definitely not an Oscar worthy performance generally not an Oscar worthy movie
Why not? It effectively portrayed police corruption, and general inner city politics.


See my above post - look at the films I provided from his corpus of work for the films that are Oscar worthy. Even if it effectively portrayed police corruption, and general inner city politics (a point which I would argue) that doesn't make Training Day an Oscar worthy film.
Yes he had had better performances. Yes there are better movies on different subjects. This subject covered however; you have not pointed out a good cross reference for in order for us to point out flaws in the movie. I believe that it portrayed the setting rather well, and his performance wasn't maybe the most preferred. Yes he was a an a--hole in the movie; yes he was not the protagonist in any sense. Nevertheless, he had a good performance in the movie. I see that all the movies you have posted he is either the good guy in or are not of the same genre. Just because you either are disinterested in the genre or not does not matter here, his performance was good, he gave a gritty and intricate performance of a cop with a flawed sense of justice.


There are better police corruption movies out there than Training Day, see the Departed. The writing in the Departed was far superior to that in Training Day. You even said it yourself he gave a good performance, which I think is debatable. Oscars don't go to good performances, they are meant for great performances.    Did you see LA Confidential? If you want to stay with Denzel movies his performance in American Gangster was better than that of Training Day. The problem with your argument about Training Day is that he actually is the protagonist - which is defined by the Merriam-Webster online dictionary as 1. a. the principle character in a literary work (as a drama or story) b. a leading actor, character, or participant in a literary work or real event. 2. a leader, proponent, or supporter of a cause. By this definition Denzel is the Protagonist in Training Day, had he not been he could not be nominated and win Best Male Lead for his performance. Being a good guy has nothing to do with winning an Oscar or giving a good performance.

By the way you don't know anything about my taste in movies. You also know nothing about which characters I identify with. In all honesty I am a big fan of police movies and film noir. I, also, identify more with the villains than the good guys, so if anything I would like Denzel's character in training day more than his other roles. I don't because the writing wasn't that good, again compared to his other roles and other movies in that genre. Why is this so hard to believe? The movie wasn't that good even if you want to say it was good it wasn't great nor were the performances. Why is it so hard to understand that the Academy gave the Oscar to the wrong performance? It wouldn't be the first time.


Yes, I love Departed, too. It is a good movie on Irish organized crime. Departed and Training Day tackle two different crime cultures, and two different settings. In Training Day the higher tier police actually partake in the crime, in the Deptarted we see how the Mob, in this case the Irish Mob stay afloat amidst Rico laws by infiltrating the State Police.

I think that it portrayed the setting rather well. I did not see a flaw with Denzel's character either, he is supposed to be cocky, and he pulled it off well.

I do not care much for the Oscar; it can go to either one. I feel that the movie itself was good no matter if it had gotten it or not. Yes the Oscars to go wrong movies, and actors all the time.


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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jan-2008 at 06:19
PS: I never actually have claimed that the Oscar should have gone to either one of the movies... I am arguing about the authenticity of the movie, and Denzel's ability to carry the movie.

The Oscar in my opinion should have gone to A Beautiful Mind. I think Russel was superb in it.


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  Quote King John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jan-2008 at 16:59
The movie was not that good, the writing was poor. Denzel also doesn't carry the movie he is out shined by the performance of Ethan Hawke. What you said was "Better than 90% of the movies that do win Oscars."

Then compare a movie like Touch of Evil to Training Day and you will find that Training Day just doesn't hold up. Touch of Evil while not taking place in LA deals with police corruption and racial tension/political environment. COmpare it to LA COnfidential and it (Training Day) still doesn't hold up. The writing/development of characters and scenes is far superior in Touch of Evil and LA Confidential than that of Training Day. Even compare it to AMerican Gangster, much more well written than Training Day.
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jan-2008 at 18:22
Originally posted by King John


There are better police corruption movies out there than Training Day, see the Departed. The writing in the Departed was far superior to that in Training Day.


the Departed had no writing, it was an almost direct copy of the Hong Kong movie Infernal Affairs and that one was sure better than the Departed.
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  Quote King John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jan-2008 at 23:57
It had a script, even if it was just translated/adapted from a foreign film, therefore it had writing.
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2008 at 17:25
yeah so why you credit the wrong movie?
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  Quote King John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2008 at 17:34
I really don't credit the wrong movie, since there had to be some things that did not translate or had to be changed. This is the reason why the writing credits go to both the writer of the original (Siu Fai Mak) and William Monahan.

How do I credit the wrong movie?

Edited by King John - 26-Jan-2008 at 17:35
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2008 at 18:09
without Infernal Affairs (and its sucess) there would have been no Departed. why give credit tot eh remake? it just copied on what was already there and had prooven sucessfull.
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