Author |
Share Topic Topic Search Topic Options
|
phoenix_bladen
Samurai
Joined: 04-Sep-2004
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 105
|
Quote Reply
Topic: Question - Linguistic Origin of Native Am Posted: 04-Mar-2005 at 17:24 |
I always hear that european languages come from a huge family of indo-european and that chinese is from a huge family of sino-tibetan
how about native americans ? What and where do they originate from ? Are they also distantly related to languages in Asia?
|
|
Capt. Lubber
Shogun
Joined: 27-Jan-2005
Location: Norway
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 238
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 05-Mar-2005 at 02:13 |
I tried to read it off of the native american article on wikipedia, but that was one of the worst articles i have ever seen there
My encyclopedia says that they originate from siberia and came over the bering-strait som 12.000 years ago. Many people object to this as they hav found 25.000 year old human remains in south america. Can't find if their languages is related to anyone outside of the americas, but there are several language groups inside america. And a few isolated languages who aren't connected to anyone
|
Loke, Attila, the grete conqueror,
Deyde in his sleep, with shame and dishonour,
Bleedinge ay at the nose in dronkenesse,
A captayin shoulde live in sobrenesse
|
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 05-Mar-2005 at 07:59 |
It's unknown. The Eskimo (for the Polical Correct AE'ers: Inuit) and Na
Dene (oa Apache, Eyak, Tlingit) language families have been clearly
recognized. They are distint from all other Native American
(Amerindian) language families, probably because the Eskimos and Na
Dene arrived in the Americas later than the other Native Americas. Some
linguists lump all other Native American languages together in one big
Amerindian Language Family. However, the Amerindian Language Family is
far from generally accepted.
|
|
Feramez
Colonel
Joined: 16-Jan-2005
Location: Uzbekistan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 521
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 05-Mar-2005 at 14:06 |
I've read that some, I don't know about all, Native American languages were old Turkish dialects from Siberia and areas around there. Over thousands of years being isolated from the people were they originated from, their languages evolved seperatly from eachother. Today there are still, but only a very small handfull, of words that survived the thousands of years. Two examples are Ana-mother and Ata-father.
|
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 05-Mar-2005 at 14:10 |
Originally posted by Feramez
Two examples are Ana-mother and Ata-father. |
The words ama/ana/mama and ata/tata/papa meaning mother and father are
found in almost every language, simply because those are the first
sounds a baby can make. It has nothing to do with linguistic relations
|
|
Feramez
Colonel
Joined: 16-Jan-2005
Location: Uzbekistan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 521
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 05-Mar-2005 at 15:19 |
Ok that makes some sense but I didn't say ama/mama or tata/papa. I said Ana and Ata. How many languages use Ana and Ata for mother and father?
|
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 06-Mar-2005 at 06:49 |
Originally posted by Feramez
Ok that makes some sense but I didn't say ama/mama or
tata/papa. I said Ana and Ata. How many languages use Ana
and Ata for mother and father? |
dozens, at least. I'd say almost every language that doesn't use ama or apa uses ana or ata (or some derived form)
|
|
Feramez
Colonel
Joined: 16-Jan-2005
Location: Uzbekistan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 521
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 06-Mar-2005 at 11:53 |
Really? Damn I never heard of that. Can you show me a website that mentions this?
|
|
eaglecap
Tsar
Retired AE Moderator
Joined: 15-Feb-2005
Location: ArizonaUSA
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3959
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 16-Mar-2005 at 19:11 |
Originally posted by Feramez
Ok that makes some sense but I didn't say ama/mama or tata/papa. I said Ana and Ata. How many languages use Ana and Ata for mother and father? |
This is in the Couer d' Alene Indian dialect of Salish
Father -Pipe'
Mother- Nune
Not even close but this is for mother and father so I do know how they would say mamma or pappa, could be different.
|
|
Feramez
Colonel
Joined: 16-Jan-2005
Location: Uzbekistan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 521
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 16-Mar-2005 at 19:53 |
That's one language out of how many of the Native American languages? I forgot which languages use Ana and Ata but a few do. But those words for mother and father don't match up with what MixcoatlToltecahtecuhtli said. Would they be considered dialects of the same language or different languages?
|
|
Gubook Janggoon
Sultan
Retired Global Moderator
Joined: 08-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2187
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 16-Mar-2005 at 21:03 |
Originally posted by Feramez
That's one language out of how many of the Native
American languages? I forgot which languages use Ana and Ata but
a few do. But those words for mother and father don't match up
with what MixcoatlToltecahtecuhtli said. Would they be considered
dialects of the same language or different languages? |
They don't line up for all languages..but they generally do for most.
|
|
Tlaloc
Immortal Guard
Joined: 17-Mar-2005
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 17-Mar-2005 at 23:32 |
What few people realize is that the diversity of North American Native languages far outpaces European. Linguist Edward Sapir confidently stated that [...]quite literally and safely, that in the state of California alone there are greater and more numerous linguistic extremes than can be illustrated in all the lenght of Europe "
Several common Native language peculiarities, such as switch-references (ex: Hopi Pam Pakit Pu' Pam Qatuptu = He came in and he sat down whereas Pam Pakiq Pu' Pam Qatuptu = He came in and he sat down, the bolded 'he' stating it is a different person, a differentiation not available in English or most other language types.) have been found in Polynesian languages of the South Pacific, Papua New Guinea, and Australian Aboriginie populations.
Since the South East Asian languages are most likely though to have come from the original staging ground around Taiwan (Source: Diamond, Germs, Guns & Steel ), this would mean that the original speakers came from Asia via Alaska.
The difficult part is that North America has many different language families, such as Athabaskan, or Uto-Aztecan (of which Nahuatl, Hopi, and O'odham are part), to other families like Algonquian, Siouan, Tanoan, Wakashan, and a dozen others spread over large areas. Some estimates place the number of seperate language families at an impressive 62, just in north mexico/north america. Adding central america, it jumps to 84 large groupings.
Another aspect, that of Polysynthesis (the act of creating words that mean entire sentences, most familiar to everyday people in the long and complex words of Nahuatl) is shared by not only the North Americans, but the Ainu of Japan and Siberian dialects, further strenghtening the claim it was from an original North-eastern Asian language, perhaps from the Altaic family.
Sources: Wikipedia, Encyclopedia of North American Indians , edited by Frederick E. Hoxie.
|
|
phoenix_bladen
Samurai
Joined: 04-Sep-2004
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 105
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 21-Mar-2005 at 00:38 |
Originally posted by Tlaloc
What few people realize is that the diversity of North American Native languages far outpaces European. Linguist Edward Sapir confidently stated that [...]quite literally and safely, that in the state of California alone there are greater and more numerous linguistic extremes than can be illustrated in all the lenght of Europe "
Several common Native language peculiarities, such as switch-references (ex: Hopi Pam Pakit Pu' Pam Qatuptu = He came in and he sat down whereas Pam Pakiq Pu' Pam Qatuptu = He came in and he sat down, the bolded 'he' stating it is a different person, a differentiation not available in English or most other language types.) have been found in Polynesian languages of the South Pacific, Papua New Guinea, and Australian Aboriginie populations.
Since the South East Asian languages are most likely though to have come from the original staging ground around Taiwan (Source: Diamond, Germs, Guns & Steel ), this would mean that the original speakers came from Asia via Alaska.
The difficult part is that North America has many different language families, such as Athabaskan, or Uto-Aztecan (of which Nahuatl, Hopi, and O'odham are part), to other families like Algonquian, Siouan, Tanoan, Wakashan, and a dozen others spread over large areas. Some estimates place the number of seperate language families at an impressive 62, just in north mexico/north america. Adding central america, it jumps to 84 large groupings.
Another aspect, that of Polysynthesis (the act of creating words that mean entire sentences, most familiar to everyday people in the long and complex words of Nahuatl) is shared by not only the North Americans, but the Ainu of Japan and Siberian dialects, further strenghtening the claim it was from an original North-eastern Asian language, perhaps from the Altaic family.
Sources: Wikipedia, Encyclopedia of North American Indians , edited by Frederick E. Hoxie. |
wow .....that's some really interesting information....
|
|
eaglecap
Tsar
Retired AE Moderator
Joined: 15-Feb-2005
Location: ArizonaUSA
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3959
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 22-Mar-2005 at 19:42 |
I will have to dig up the book but in California before the arrival of the Spanish they believe there was over 200 different dialects and languages spoken in that region. Amongst the list of languages and dialects was Uto-Aztecan and Hokan. Another book of mine buried in storage.
I know in Germania, during the time of Julius Caesar, there were many Germanic dialects spoken in that region, minus the Celtic dialects.
|
|