louis vuitton handbags online casque beats maizitang tiffany jewelry cheap louis vuitton taschen online shop louis vuitton cheap handbags
Northeast European Tribe, Scythian - History Forum ~ All Empires - Page 1
 

Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Northeast European Tribe, Scythian
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 7>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
traveladda View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 16-Jul-2011
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1 		  Quote traveladda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Northeast European Tribe, Scythian
    Posted: 16-Jul-2011 at 02:51
Northeast European Tribe is the most interesting community to study more about their culture and tradition. The history is very interesting. I am studying about the India tribes and history. Now am trying to get information about the Assam tribes and their History of Assam
Back to Top
Slayertplsko View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 13-May-2008
Location: Slovakia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1062 		  Quote Slayertplsko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2008 at 21:46
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

We are discussing about the origins of the names not the nations, Maidan is a place name in Keiv which has an Iranic origin, there could be some other Iranic-origin palce or people names in this region, such as Kiev itself, why not?


The square got its name in 1991...right?? And maidan is a loan word...just like the plenty of latin and greek loan words...

and excuse me...what's the point of the whole...this??


Edited by Slayertplsko - 17-Sep-2008 at 21:51
A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it's not open.
Back to Top
Sarmat View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 31-May-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3114 		  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2008 at 20:55
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

We are discussing about the origins of the names not the nations, Maidan is a place name in Keiv which has an Iranic origin, there could be some other Iranic-origin palce or people names in this region, such as Kiev itself, why not?
 
For example lets read what Ukrainians themselves say:
 
A Ukrainian Website: Worldwide Ukrainian Community www.Ukrainians.ca
 
http://www.ukrainians.ca/content/view/24/2/lang,en/ : The Anti are normally identified with proto-Ukrainians. The name anti is of Iranic origin and means people living on the borderland.
 
Well. It's true that Eastern Slavs were in close contact with Iranic nomades for a very long time.  And some historians even get confused while trying to distinguish whether some ancient tribes were Slavic or Iranic, like for example in the case of "Scythians plowmen" described by Herodotus.
 
I'm ok with discussing the extent and nature of such contacts. I just don't support affirmative statements like "Yeah, it's Iranic for sure, 100%, and nothing else."
Σαυρομάτης
Back to Top
Sarmat View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 31-May-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3114 		  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2008 at 20:45
Well. Maidan literally means a "square" in Ukrainian. Like Red square, or Trafalgar square etc. Likewise there is the "Independence Square" in Kiev which in Urkainian sounds like "Maidan Nezalezhnosti."
 
Arabs, Turks and Indians also use "Maidan." Are they all Iranians? I feel that there is something strange with this logic.
Σαυρομάτης
Back to Top
Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
King of Kings

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6007 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2008 at 20:01
We are discussing about the origins of the names not the nations, Maidan is a place name in Keiv which has an Iranic origin, there could be some other Iranic-origin palce or people names in this region, such as Kiev itself, why not?
 
For example lets read what Ukrainians themselves say:
 
A Ukrainian Website: Worldwide Ukrainian Community www.Ukrainians.ca
 
http://www.ukrainians.ca/content/view/24/2/lang,en/ : The Anti are normally identified with proto-Ukrainians. The name anti is of Iranic origin and means people living on the borderland.


Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 17-Sep-2008 at 20:09
Back to Top
Sarmat View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 31-May-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3114 		  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2008 at 19:03

What is so surprising about the use of Persian word "maidan" in Ukrainian language?

The word itself is not Ukrainian or Slavic in origin it was borrowed from Crimean Tatar language (Ukrainian language BTW has more Turkic words than Russian for example) while Tatars adopted this word from Persian. In fact Turkic languages in general bear huge Persian influence.
 
Ukrainians and Russians also have a word "shkola" for school for example. Does it mean that they originate from ancient Greeks?  Confused  What a nonsense !
Σαυρομάτης
Back to Top
Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
King of Kings

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6007 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2008 at 19:03
Originally posted by gcle2003

Originally posted by Slayertplsko

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Iranic not Persian, please try to distinguish the differences between them, Scythian was an Iranian language, not Persian.

Thanks for educating a simple Slovak guy. I didn't realise there was a difference between these two.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Herodotus,

who had been long dead by the time Kiev was founded
talks about three legendary Scythian brothers who found Scythia. -> Histories of Herodotus, Book 4, 8


It seems he talks about different three brothers. Anyway, Svätopluk, the most famous Great Moravian knyaz, also had three sons. It's not that uncommon to have three sons.

 
I have three sons. We haven't founded any cities yet though.
That is just a three brothers legend which has probably a Scythian origin, do you believe Iran, Turan and Sarmatia were found by "Iraj, Tur and Salm" or Poland, Bohemia, Ruthenia were found by "Lech, Czech and Rus", ...?
 
Back to Top
Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
King of Kings

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6007 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2008 at 18:54
Originally posted by Slayertplsko

[Origin: 1615–25; < Hindi maidān < Pers < Ar maydān]

here
I think Arabs themselves have never claimed an Arabic origin for this word, it is very obvious that it can't be an Arabic word, if you know a little about this language.
 
 
 Arab. Maydán (from Persian); Lane generally translates it "horse-course," and Payne "tilting-yard." It is both and something more; an open space, in or near the city, used for reviewing troops, races, playing the Jeríd (cane-spear) and other sports and exercises: thus Al-Maydan = Gr. hippodrome. The game here alluded to is our "polo," or hockey on horseback, a favourite with the Persian Kings, as all old illustrations of the Shahnamah show. Maydan is also a natural plain for which copious Arabic has many terms; Fayhah or Sath (a plain generally), Khabt (a low-lying plain), Bat'há (a low sandy flat), Mahattah (a plain fit for halting) and so forth. (Pilgrimage iii., 11.)
Back to Top
gcle2003 View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar

Joined: 06-Dec-2004
Location: Luxembourg
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7050 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2008 at 18:47
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Originally posted by Slayertplsko

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

It seems some things have really Persian origin there! Wink


I never said they can't, just that they NECESSARILY NEEDN'T! You seem to have made a hobby out of seeking Persian or Iranian etymologies for everything on Earth.

What was the article burbling about 1991?? Anyway, it's an Arabic word.
"Maidan" is a very Persian word which in fact means "Centre" (Maid=mid + suffix -an=place), in the Avestan language it is "Maidhyana".
 
But you said earlier it meant 'square'.
Citizen of Ankh-Morpork
Never believe anything until it has been officially denied - Sir Humphrey Appleby, 1984.
Back to Top
gcle2003 View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar

Joined: 06-Dec-2004
Location: Luxembourg
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7050 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2008 at 18:45
Originally posted by Slayertplsko

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Iranic not Persian, please try to distinguish the differences between them, Scythian was an Iranian language, not Persian.

Thanks for educating a simple Slovak guy. I didn't realise there was a difference between these two.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Herodotus,

who had been long dead by the time Kiev was founded
talks about three legendary Scythian brothers who found Scythia. -> Histories of Herodotus, Book 4, 8


It seems he talks about different three brothers. Anyway, Svätopluk, the most famous Great Moravian knyaz, also had three sons. It's not that uncommon to have three sons.

 
I have three sons. We haven't founded any cities yet though.
Citizen of Ankh-Morpork
Never believe anything until it has been officially denied - Sir Humphrey Appleby, 1984.
Back to Top
Slayertplsko View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 13-May-2008
Location: Slovakia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1062 		  Quote Slayertplsko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2008 at 17:51
[Origin: 1615–25; < Hindi maidān < Pers < Ar maydān]

here
A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it's not open.
Back to Top
Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
King of Kings

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6007 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2008 at 17:40
Originally posted by Slayertplsko

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

It seems some things have really Persian origin there! Wink


I never said they can't, just that they NECESSARILY NEEDN'T! You seem to have made a hobby out of seeking Persian or Iranian etymologies for everything on Earth.

What was the article burbling about 1991?? Anyway, it's an Arabic word.
"Maidan" is a very Persian word which in fact means "Centre" (Maid=mid + suffix -an=place), in the Avestan language it is "Maidhyana".
Back to Top
Sarmat View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 31-May-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3114 		  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2008 at 16:24
Actually, Kiy, Shek and Horiv story is just a legend. It's, however, very likely that Kiev was founded by Khazars as  a trading and customs office on Dnieper river. Smile
Σαυρομάτης
Back to Top
Slayertplsko View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 13-May-2008
Location: Slovakia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1062 		  Quote Slayertplsko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2008 at 15:05
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

It seems some things have really Persian origin there! Wink


I never said they can't, just that they NECESSARILY NEEDN'T! You seem to have made a hobby out of seeking Persian or Iranian etymologies for everything on Earth.

What was the article burbling about 1991?? Anyway, it's an Arabic word.
A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it's not open.
Back to Top
Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
King of Kings

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6007 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2008 at 13:40
Originally posted by Slayertplsko

You shouldn't speak of ultranationalists....

Kiev was simply founded by a Slavic knyaz Kyi, and the name of the city is a possessive form. Why should it have Persian origin??
It seems some things have really Persian origin there! Wink
 
 
Maidan Nezalezhnosti (Ukrainian: Майдан Незалежності, literally: Independence Square) is the central square of Kiev, the capital city of Ukraine.
 
Current name's etymology

"Maidan" literally translates from Ukrainian as square; this word originally came from Persian.

Following the construction, the old familiar look of the square, with its many fountains, was significantly altered and the public reaction to the new look of the square was initially mixed.[5] However, by now the square's monument to Kyi, Schek and Khoryv - the legendary founders of Kiev.
Back to Top
SearchAndDestroy View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 15-Aug-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2732 		  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2008 at 13:27
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Iranic not Persian, please try to distinguish the differences between them, Scythian was an Iranian language, not Persian.

Do you mean it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyi,_Schek_and_Khoryv Kyi (alt. sp. Kiy, Kij or Kyj), Schek and Khoryv (Russian: Кий, Щек, Хорив) are the three legendary brothers.

Herodotus talks about three legendary Scythian brothers who found Scythia. -> Histories of Herodotus, Book 4, 8

Herodotus gives three names, Lipoxais, Arpoxais the elder brothers, and Colaxais the youngest and the only one who was able to touch the golden items that fell from the sky thus becoming king. He never did mention an important sister like thos three brothers and SISTER.
Those 4 figures also seem to represent locations in that link you gave, something the three Scythian brother's names don't have.
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey
Back to Top
Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
King of Kings

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6007 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2008 at 11:59

I will certainly believe it, if you prove it.
Back to Top
Sarmat View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 31-May-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3114 		  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2008 at 02:08
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

That is really unbelievable, cities of Iraq can't have Arabic origin, cities of Turkey can't have Turkic origin, ... the problem is that ultra-nationalists don't want to believe that some other peoples lived in their countries before them!
 
Exactly, it's obvious that the cities of Iran were founded by Fenno-Ugrians why don't you believe in this fact?
Σαυρομάτης
Back to Top
Slayertplsko View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 13-May-2008
Location: Slovakia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1062 		  Quote Slayertplsko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2008 at 16:47
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Iranic not Persian, please try to distinguish the differences between them, Scythian was an Iranian language, not Persian.

Thanks for educating a simple Slovak guy. I didn't realise there was a difference between these two.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Herodotus,

who had been long dead by the time Kiev was founded
talks about three legendary Scythian brothers who found Scythia. -> Histories of Herodotus, Book 4, 8


It seems he talks about different three brothers. Anyway, Svätopluk, the most famous Great Moravian knyaz, also had three sons. It's not that uncommon to have three sons.



Edited by Slayertplsko - 16-Sep-2008 at 16:49
A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it's not open.
Back to Top
Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
King of Kings

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6007 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2008 at 12:29

Iranic not Persian, please try to distinguish the differences between them, Scythian was an Iranian language, not Persian.

Do you mean it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyi,_Schek_and_Khoryv Kyi (alt. sp. Kiy, Kij or Kyj), Schek and Khoryv (Russian: Кий, Щек, Хорив) are the three legendary brothers.

Herodotus talks about three legendary Scythian brothers who found Scythia. -> Histories of Herodotus, Book 4, 8
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 7>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.156 seconds.