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Pakistan's Benazir Bhutto assasinated

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  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Pakistan's Benazir Bhutto assasinated
    Posted: 31-Dec-2007 at 18:21

I'm surprised you haven't blamed KHAD yet.

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  Quote maqsad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2007 at 17:38
She wasn't killed by "extremists" it was done by people from her own family and her own party. The "extremists" are just the patsies and perhaps the hitmen, not the masterminds or the co-conspirators.

Who refused to get her body autopsied?

Who told her to stick her head out of the car at that moment?

Who would have known exactly when to tell her to stick her head out and coaxed her into it?

Who is now refusing to have her body exumed?

Who inherited more than a billion dollars suddenly, who is taking over the reigns of the PPP?
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  Quote Gharanai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2007 at 15:49

Well it's sad to hear about her and as far as her death is concerned mostly it's said that first she was shoot but gun then the blast took place but the government says that it was the impact of the blast which shock her while her neck hit the roof top window's edge and caused her death.

 
Below are the pictures shown by Pakistani News Channel Dawn, where it shows that there were two assasins, one shoot her and the other blow himself.
 
Image%20hosted%20by%20allyoucanupload.com
 
Glancing at the camera, while the other man (thought to be the suicide bomber) who has folded himself in a scarf could be seen behind the shooter (a young boy of 20-22, guoted by Gov).
 
Image%20hosted%20by%20allyoucanupload.com
 
Taking the aim while Benazir still could be seen (on the right side of the picture).
 
Image%20hosted%20by%20allyoucanupload.com
 
Shootout
 
 
 


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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2007 at 06:39
Whether she was killed by the bullet or the bomb is irrelevant, I don't know why people are so hung up about it.

In her will she left the leadership of the PPP to her son, with her husband as regent. How democratic is that?
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2007 at 06:10

If that had been the case, her head would have exploded. Here how a bullet effects a persons head.

 
"High-velocity missile wounds of the head are especially destructive because of formation of a temporary cavity within the cranial cavity. the brain is enclosed by the skull, a closed rigid structure that can relieve pressure only by "bursting." Thus, high-velocity missile wounds of the head tend to produce bursting injuries. That these bursting injuries are the result of temporary cavity formation can be demonstrated by shooting through empty skulls. A high-velocity bullet fired through an empty skull produces small entrance and exit holes with no fractures. The same missile fired through a skull containing brain causes extensive fracturing and bursting injuries.
    " Although the gyroscopic spin of the bullet along its axis is sufficient to stabilize the bullet in air, this spin is insufficient to stabilize the bullet when it enters the denser medium of tissue. Thus, as soon s the bullet enters to body, it will begin to wobble. As the bullet begins to wobble, its cross-sectional area becomes larger, the drag force increases, and more kinetic energy is lost. If the path through the tissue is long enough, the wobbling will increase to such a degree that the bullet will be completely unstable and will tumble end-over-end through the tissue."
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2007 at 20:28
Originally posted by Sparten

She hit her head due to the force of the blast on the armoured sides of the jeep. She was not shot. If she had been half her face would have been missing due to the exit hole.


i saw a clip on TV where a man shot his pistol twice in the direction of her backhead.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dZc55ujAL6g
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  Quote jayeshks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2007 at 18:59
Originally posted by HEROI

If you think about it ,it suits the Americans and the west because it would now be very hard for Musharaf not to continue with better democratic elections.There does not exist an inside enemy for Musharaf any more,so no more exuses to increase his power.So in the future we will see a more stabilised Pakistan with stronger indipendent institutions,civil government and less powers to the Army and inteligent services.
 

The Western press seems obsessed with the fantasy that an election, no matter what the context, will solve all of Pakistan's problems and usher in democracy.  Pakistan has had many elections before, most have done nothing for democracy. What an election at this point will do is legitimize Mushy's power in Western eyes (which is what he wanted in the first place).  Then the West can go to bed satisfied for "fixing" the world's problems yet again and Mushy can return to reforming the country as before without opposition.  And things will return to normal...at least until the next time the US tries to "help" Pakistani democracy along. 
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  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2007 at 17:15
Murdered by extremists she helped to create

By Ahmed Rashid in Lahore

Last Updated: 2:56am GMT 29/12/2007
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/12/29/wbhutto329.xml
 
The Pakistan government's belief that al-Qa'eda was responsible for the attack on Benazir Bhutto comes as little surprise given her public commitment to root out Islamist extremists if elected prime minister.
 
Those who carried out the attack were likely to have been volunteers with groups linked to the so-called Pakistani Taliban, who were trained by elements of al-Qa'eda.
 
But the expanding network of al-Qa'eda and associated groups in Pakistan owes much to the contradictory policies of successive governments which have favoured some terrorists while hunting down others.
 
Even Miss Bhutto allowed extremist groups to flourish during her last stint as prime minister in the 1990s. The Taliban in neighbouring Afghanistan received support from her government, while Pakistani Islamist fighters were given backing as they tried to wrest control of the divided region of Kashmir from India.
 
However, it is President Pervez Musharraf who has done most to undermine efforts to combat terrorism and turned Pakistan into the epicentre for al-Qa'eda, the Taliban and other groups.
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Today, Islamist extremists in Pakistan - rather than in Iraq or Afghanistan - are the main threat to global stability. Since 2004 every fatal or foiled terrorist plot in Europe and elsewhere, has had its origins in the tribal areas of Pakistan.
 
The al-Qa'eda campaign in Pakistan is being spearheaded by the Pakistani Taliban, who in recent months have captured large tracts of territory in the Pashtun tribal belt in the north-west.
 
Lately, they have occupied the Swat valley, just over 60 miles from Islamabad and the centre of the country's tourist trade.
 
The Pakistani Taliban are now a major force in every city in the North West Frontier Province.
 
They are led by Baitullah Mehsud, who warned in October that his suicide bombers were waiting to kill Miss Bhutto when she returned home from exile.
 
The Pakistani interior ministry has released the transcript of what it claimed to be a telephone conversation between Mehsud and another militant, in which he congratulated a "tremendous effort" by "really brave boys" in the assassination of Miss Bhutto.
       
The inside of Benazir Bhutto's vehicle after her death
Benazir Bhutto's shoes lie on the floor of her vehicle's bloodstained interior
 
The Pakistani Taliban are mostly Pashtun tribesmen who were influenced by al-Qa'eda after they helped its leaders seek refuge following September 11, 2001.
 
At the behest of the US, Pakistan's army conducted a policy of capturing or killing Arab members of al-Qa'eda. However, it left the Afghan Taliban alone, as it distrusted the regime of President Hamid Karzai, which it accused of being pro-Indian.
 
The military wanted to keep the Afghan Taliban as a potential proxy force. And after 2004 the army even gave up the chase against al-Qa'eda, once it realised that the US focus was on Iraq rather than on Afghanistan.
 
The Pakistani Taliban became more dangerous after they began to train militants from Islamist extremist groups in the nation's cities. It is these educated urban militants who, it is believed, exploded the bombs that killed 134 in Karachi as Miss Bhutto returned home from exile in October.
 
The Pakistani Taliban has also used the Pashtun tribal network to develop well-placed supporters inside the army and the Pakistani intelligence services.
 
Several recent suicide bombings which have killed hundreds of army personnel in barracks within Pakistan's cities could only have taken place with inside knowledge.
 
The US has given Pakistan 5 billion since 2001, three quarters of which has been spent on the country's military.
 
In the future, it will need to link such aid to targets on dealing with terrorists if its money is not to be squandered.
 
This is a translation from the raw transcript of the alleged telephone conversation between Baitullah Mehsud, a senior al-Qa'eda leader, and another militant, which the Pakistan interior ministry said had been intercepted after the assassination.
 
Maulvi Sahib (MS): Asalaam Aleikum (Peace be with you).
 
Baitullah Mehsud (BM): Waaleikum Asalaam (And also with you).
 
MS: Chief, how are you?
 
BM: I am fine.
 
MS: Congratulations, I just got back during the night.
 
BM: Congratulations to you. Were they our men?
 
MS:: Yes, they were ours.
 
BM: Who were they?
 
MS: There was Saeed, there was Bilal from Badar and Ikramullah.
 
BM: The three of them did it?
 
MS: Ikramullah and Bilal did it.
 
BM: Then congratulations.
 
MS: Where are you? I want to meet you.
 
BM: I am at Makeen (town in the South Waziristan tribal region). Come over, I am at Anwar Shah's house.
 
MS: OK, I'll come.
 
BM: Don't inform their house for the time being.
 
MS: OK.
 
BM: It was a tremendous effort. They were really brave boys who killed her.
 
MS: Mashallah (Thank God). When I come I will give you all the details.
 
BM: I will wait for you. Congratulations, once again congratulations.
 
MS: Congratulations to you.
 
BM: Anything I can do for you?
 
MS: Thank you very much.
 
BM: Asalaam Aleikum.
 
MS: Waaleikum Asalaam.
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  Quote HEROI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2007 at 15:26

The thing is anybody could have been behind the attack,it is though strange how this attack serves both her enemy and her suporters.

If you think about it ,it suits the Americans and the west because it would now be very hard for Musharaf not to continue with better democratic elections.There does not exist an inside enemy for Musharaf any more,so no more exuses to increase his power.So in the future we will see a more stabilised Pakistan with stronger indipendent institutions,civil government and less powers to the Army and inteligent services.
 
As far as Bhutto democratic profile is concerned she used to be in power before,leading a throughly corrupt government,quite despotic,serving to strengthen the power of her clan in the country.Thats the truth ,that she used to be far from a democratic leader.
 
Having said that nothing justifies the terrorist attack,wherever it may come from,and whatever purpuse it may serve.I just hope those responsible are cought and brought to justice.
 
Me pune,me perpjekje.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2007 at 15:23
Yes. But it is also true that her party has a lot of genuine support in urban areas.
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  Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2007 at 15:02
Is it true that she bosses people in the countryside to vote for her party and that she, and other fuedal lords, were responsible for the deaths of several journalists who exposed their deeds? Also that she was allied to the backward tribal chiefs especially in the Sindh so that law and order was to continue to be in their hands.
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2007 at 14:37
She was no democrat. She never was that. A feudal through and through.
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  Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2007 at 14:10
Her 19 year old child will lead the party, now that's democracy for you! A Ghandi wannabe definitely.
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2007 at 11:00
She hit her head due to the force of the blast on the armoured sides of the jeep. She was not shot. If she had been half her face would have been missing due to the exit hole.
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  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2007 at 10:51
Originally posted by Balaam

So how did Bhutto die? From what I've gathered from reading here is there was an explosion and she just hit her head on something from the blast, is that what happened?
 
Unidentified man shot her twice as she was about to get into her car. She suffered critical injuries. Then the terrorist headed towards the car and blew himself up with explosive. Several more people (Her supporters) died due to the explosion.
     
   
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  Quote Balaam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2007 at 07:43
So how did Bhutto die? From what I've gathered from reading here is there was an explosion and she just hit her head on something from the blast, is that what happened?
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  Quote Mughal e Azam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2007 at 04:36
Ironic yet true, Pakistan back in the late 80s and 90s funded the problematic terrorism culture that exists today. When Vajpayee was complaining about these tribes financed and trained by Pakistan in Kashmir, no one was listening.
 
Now the chickens have come home to roost.
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  Quote Mughal e Azam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2007 at 04:22
Actually, Pakistan's nukes can only effect the Asian continent. The Indians and Iranis have alot more to fear than the Americans.
 
Also, Pakistan is run by the Military. Classic Feudalism going back to the times of the Ghaznavids, Ghourids, Delvhi Sultanate and Mughaals. The idea is we provide you with the protection, and you [the people] must make the economy work. History is studied to understand the present and predict the past, and so is true in the case of Pakistan.
 
Anywho, its Musharraf you need to worry about. All the other guys are clowns. Pakistan is a country, that when people go to the polls (rarely) they dont ask "Who is better for Pakistan" but "What is his lineage?" or "What language does he speak?" or "He is related to my third cousins aunts grandmother how?". Sometimes among the educated its just the question "Who will f**k up the country less?"
 
When Musharraf is assassinated then worry. Until then you got a tub of lard who wont admit he is a client of the Hair Club for Men and a retired Cricket Captain.
 
When Musharraf is gone, Kiyani will take his place. But Pakistan will still be there long after.


Edited by Mughaal - 30-Dec-2007 at 04:22
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  Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2007 at 04:00
Originally posted by Mughaal

 
The only reason the Europeans and Americans are grieving for her more than the Pakistanis is because they lost their puppet. Whose strings will the pull now?
 
The reason the Pakistanis are grieving is because a sense of helplessness, lack of stability in their nation, foreign pressures, and the method of death of their PM.
 
She was corrup, but all politicians are. She didnt deserve to die the way she did.
 
Ah, geez... and no American can be concerned for Pakistan's stability? My original concern for voicing my opinion. 
 
I'll repeat here again. The first thing i do hope for Pakistan is "Stability"! The nuclear weapons are problematic, with no real consensus in Washington, on what to do in case of the worst; That is... of a "hypothetical" what-if scenario of, Heaven forborid... Pakistan were too fall apart and the weapons were too fall into the hands of the worst sort of people! Then again, there is a ton of very smart people in Pakistan that wouldn't let that happen either!
 
However... that is where the real differences lay over what to do about the nukes between Pakistan and the US. There is already enough of a level of trust & cooperation there to work with. But, sadly for the relations between the two countries... there is not that many US politicans willing enough to stake a major US city or two on that trust. I'm sure many Pakistani's would feel the same way, if the situation were absolutely reversed? Think about it! IOW... what the US is looking for atmost,  is reassurance; And in very least... another useless puppet to be attacked by those in the opposition!
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  Quote Mughal e Azam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2007 at 03:56
Time for Conspiracy Theories. Yay! a favorite Pakistani pastime.
 
Word on the streetCool:
-Benazir promised her American backers 3 things if in power:
1. Hand over AQ Khan
2. Allow US Military in NWFP-FATA
3. End Pakistan's Nuclear Program.
 
Who could have assasinated her.
 
People are saying not Musharraf because when he gave his address regarding the issue, he sounded shaken and stirred. However we still cant rule out Musharraf.
 
ISI: Inter-Services Intelligence (the "Mossad" of Pakistan) who tend to be extremelly conservative and didnt like Bhutto to begin with. Especially about her 3 Point Program.
 
Foreign Forces trying to destabilize Pakistan.
 
Terrorists.
 
I rule out foreigners (Israel, USA, or India) because they were Bhuttos greatest financiers and supporters. Terrorists usely pronounce a killing very openly, but this time didnt.
 
How Much You Wanna Bet: ISI all the way. I hear from people that the ISI is so deceptive, even the head executive has no idea whats going on. None of their assassins ever met each other, nor does anyone have any sensible control over them. Not even themselves.
 


Edited by Mughaal - 30-Dec-2007 at 08:57
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