Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Pakistan's Benazir Bhutto assasinated

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 4>
Author
maqsad View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 25-Aug-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 928
  Quote maqsad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Pakistan's Benazir Bhutto assasinated
    Posted: 17-Jan-2008 at 06:54
Yes its interesting that the US has recently invaded and destroyed the two main obstacles to the expansion of Khomenied Iran. The Iraqi Baaths and the Sunni Pakhtun Taliban. How very convenient. And we hear of explosions and sabotage all the time all over Pakistan and Afghanistan but never a peep out of Iran. Oh...and how convenient that all of a sudden just when it is time to invade another country from the axis of evil, suddenly that prospect is too much to swallow and "poor little Iran" will be left alone while it arms itself to the teeth.
Back to Top
Mughal e Azam View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 10-Jul-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 646
  Quote Mughal e Azam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2008 at 06:34
I think the Muslims are quite capable of doing that without foreign help, thank you very much!
 
How much would you like to bet the dominant power will be Khomenid Iran? They will annex the "Arab Shia State" and enjoy the oil that comes with it. At the same time they will annex Herat and West Balochistan. Slithers of Turkmenistan and all of Tajikistan. A Weaker Pakistan and Saudi Arabia is a dream for Khomenid Iran. Then they will be the dominant power in the region.


Edited by Mughaal - 11-Mar-2008 at 23:40
Mughal e Azam
Back to Top
maqsad View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 25-Aug-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 928
  Quote maqsad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2008 at 05:21
When I first heard the fox interview I was like wow..a breath of fresh air: we actually have someone finally admitting how corrupt US/UK backed "democracy puppets" like Benazir are. Usually they just snarl and whine about corrupt US/UK backed puppet dictators like mushy are and how wonderful "democracy" would be for pakistan, LOL.  Then I did a very quick lookup on this guy Ralph Peters who was blasting Benazir and it turns out he is the architect of a middeast solution that comes with a somewhat famous map: LOL

It reinforces the suspicion that pretty much everyone in the current neocon/liberal policymaking positions in the US/UK political sphere wants poverty, division, instability and smaller sized fiefdoms for the region that pakistan/afghanistan currently occupy. I find it quite revealing also that he decides to hand most of Kashmir over to India-what a joke.





Back to Top
Mughal e Azam View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 10-Jul-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 646
  Quote Mughal e Azam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jan-2008 at 05:43
Benazir the Corrupt
Some of the truest criticism ever heard.
 
Mughal e Azam
Back to Top
maqsad View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 25-Aug-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 928
  Quote maqsad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jan-2008 at 18:35
Interesting first time interview with a police force guy who appeared to have been keeping an eagle eye on the whole scene. I wonder why the hell no video cameras anywhere saw who this "crowd" was that came out of nowhere to stop the parade. Mushy finally seems ready to drop the sunroof lever theory, gawd knows why the hell he would stick with that story to begin with? I mean...what is the point of cooking up such an outrageous theory, any benefit?


DSP says he saw man taking a shot at Benazir



By Mohammad Asghar

RAWALPINDI, Jan 7: A man wearing sunglasses was standing about three metres from Benazir Bhuttos car and was firing at her with a pistol. As soon as I jumped to overpower him, a mighty explosion occurred.

These are the words of Deputy Superintendent of Police (DSP), Ishtiaq Hussain Shah, who gave his first interview from hospital on Monday. Ishtiaq Shah was among those who sustained multiple injuries in the Dec 27 attack.

President Pervez Musharraf has also admitted that Benazir Bhutto might have been shot. Until now the authorities had been claiming that she died of a skull fracture caused by a lever attached to the sun-roof of her bullet-proof vehicle.

The DSP said that he saw some people appear from nowhere and stop Ms Bhuttos car while she was leaving the rally.

I dont know who they were or from where they came. They were carrying flags of the Pakistan Peoples Party and shouting pro-PPP slogans. They just appeared on the road, he said. I started to clear the way for Ms Bhuttos vehicle. I saw a man who was probably wearing a grey jacket and sunglasses shoot from the crowd towards Ms Bhutto. I jumped to overpower him. He was about 10 feet away from my position. A mighty explosion took place soon afterwards.

He said seconds later he found himself lying at a distance from the scene and darkness overtook the place.

DSP Shah said that he was on the left side of Ms Bhuttos car.

About security arrangements made by the police for the rally, he said that they were absolutely perfect, insisiting that there had been no security lapse on their part.

Ishtiaq Shah, however, said he got worried when he saw that the walk-through gates were not working because of a power breakdown. He feared that people would get inside the rally venue without any security check.

He said he immediately called Rawalpindi Electricity Supplying authorities and requested them to restore power supply. Later, he said he had sought Naheed Khans help for getting the power supply restored.

He said: My family has been in distress since I got injured, but I am thankful to God that I survived.
http://dawn.com/2008/01/08/top3.htm

Interesting first time interview with a police force guy who appeared to have been keeping an eagle eye on the whole scene. I wonder why the hell no video cameras anywhere saw who this "crowd" was that came out of nowhere to stop the parade.
Back to Top
deadkenny View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 21-Aug-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 994
  Quote deadkenny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jan-2008 at 22:34
Pretty much any bullet to the head would entail 'intense trauma'.  However, the only way I can see what you're describing is if the muzzle of the handgun was held in physical contact with the head.  Then you would have not only the bullet, but the overpressure caused in the barrel due to the obstruction (i.e. the head).  That might cause significantly more damage than the bullet alone is capable of (then again it might simply result in a rupture of the barrel).  In any case, I do not believe that there is any question of the handgun that was fired at Bhutto having been in physical contact with her head at any point.  A separation of only a few feet would allow all the gas to escape and the only energy available would be that of the bullet itself.  In that case there's not a huge difference in the energy between 5 or 50 feet.  The velocity drops off over distance, but not that quickly.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jan-2008 at 07:08
deadkenny, as I said I no expert in ballistics, but I did take a course in this subject in law school, and from what I remember is at point blank range generally the head shows intense trauma. Maybe I misremembered?
Back to Top
deadkenny View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 21-Aug-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 994
  Quote deadkenny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jan-2008 at 21:29
Originally posted by Sparten

Even a handgun bullet would at that range be sufficient to burst her head.


Originally posted by Sparten

9mm would be sufficient as well. Only a fairly weal round like the .22 would not cause a catastrophic head injury.


Originally posted by Sparten

I am no firearms expert. But the rule of the thumb for point blank or near point blank shots, is well pop gose the weasel, the pressure build up is so intense that the cranial cavity bursts.


Sorry Sparten, but your statements here are simply not correct.  There are 'handguns' that fire slightly downloaded rifle cartridges, but that is clearly not what we are looking at in this case.  There is no such 'rule of thumb' regarding 'point blank' shots, at least not in the real world field of ballistics (perhaps it is a Hollywood rule of thumb).

The 'energy' of a bullet is based on the mass times the velocity squared.  Although the velocity of a bullet does start to drop immediately upon leaving the muzzle, the fact is that a rifle bullet will still be traveling much much faster than a handgun bullet, even if the rifle bullet has traveled hundreds of yards and the handgun bullet only a few feet.  Given the relatively little recoil shown in the video of the gun being fired, it is likely that it was a smaller caliber, .22, .25 or perhaps .32.  Even if it were a 9mm, it would still not cause the head of the victim to 'explode', other than in a Hollywood movie. 

In fact, the video of Bhutto's head movement is entirely consistent with having been hit in the head by a bullet from a handgun.  That is the opinion of a ballistics 'expert' it was shown to, not just my opinion.  As for 'cause of death', well I suppose it is possible that someone could be shot in the head, could fall and then fatally fracture their skull due to the fall.  However, that would all appear to be 'academic' at this point.  It appears that Bhutto was shot in the head, and whether it was the bullet or the impact from the resulting from the ensuing fall that was ultimately fatal would not appear to matter much now.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jan-2008 at 19:37
Originally posted by Temujin

you don't know where he hit her head anyways, heads can explode but they don't have to as a rule. 9mm can even bounce off from front windows of cars, as everyone knows who ever watched Dirty Harry... Tongue
I am no firearms expert. But the rule of the thumb for point blank or near point blank shots, is well pop gose the weasel, the pressure build up is so intense that the cranial cavity bursts.
Back to Top
maqsad View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 25-Aug-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 928
  Quote maqsad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jan-2008 at 19:20
Doctors Cite Pressure to Keep Silent On Bhutto

By Emily Wax and Griff Witte
Washington Post Foreign Service
Tuesday, January 1, 2008; Page A01

RAWALPINDI, Pakistan, Dec. 31 -- Pakistani authorities have pressured the medical personnel who tried to save Benazir Bhutto's life to remain silent about what happened in her final hour and have removed records of her treatment from the facility, according to doctors.

In interviews, doctors who were at Bhutto's side at Rawalpindi General Hospital said they were under extreme pressure not to share details about the nature of the injuries that the opposition leader suffered in an attack here Dec. 27.

"The government took all the medical records right after Ms. Bhutto's time of death was read out," said a visibly shaken doctor who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue. Sweating and putting his head in his hands, he said: "Look, we have been told by the government to stop talking. And a lot of us feel this is a disgrace."

The doctors now find themselves at the center of a political firestorm over the circumstances of Bhutto's death. The government has said Bhutto, 54, was killed after the force of a suicide bombing caused her head to slam against the lever of her vehicle's sunroof. Bhutto's supporters have pointed to video footage, including a new amateur video released Monday, as proof that she was killed by gunfire.

The truth about what happened has serious implications in Pakistan. The ability of a gunman to fire at Bhutto from close range, as alleged by her supporters, would suggest that an assassin was able to breach government security in a city that serves as headquarters of the Pakistani military, bolstering her supporters' claims that the government failed to provide her with adequate protection.

If a gunman were to blame, it would also raise questions as to why the government has for days insisted otherwise. Bhutto's supporters have called for an international investigation.

The government has repeatedly dismissed allegations of a coverup, and some U.S. medical experts, when asked Monday to review an official hospital description of her wounds, speculated that a skull fracture and not a bullet wound killed Bhutto.

The medical personnel in Rawalpindi, meanwhile, have mostly remained quiet.

"Our doctors have become caught up in this very emotional and political issue," said Fayyaz Ahmed Khan, the doctors' supervisor at Rawalpindi General. "It's a terrible position for our medical professions to be in."

A newly released video that was obtained by Britain's Channel 4 and broadcast Monday cast doubt on the government's claims and appeared to corroborate witnesses' stories. The footage appeared to show a gunman and a suspected suicide bomber approaching Bhutto's sport-utility vehicle. Seconds later, the video showed gunfire and Bhutto's hair and scarf being blown back just as a bomb explodes.

Government officials identified Baitullah Mehsud, a pro-Taliban commander in the restive South Waziristan region, as the organizer of Bhutto's killing. But some observers said the government has been too quick to blame the attack on the Taliban.

Jameel Yusuf, a lead investigator in the 2002 disappearance of American journalist Daniel Pearl in Karachi, said the Pakistani government had blundered badly by not sealing off the crime scene. Moments after Bhutto was killed, workers hosed down the blood at the blast site before any evidence could be collected.

"When you're dealing with a murder of this nature, you need to have forensics," Yusuf said.

Several witnesses say they had yet to be interviewed by police.

Kamran Nazir, 19, was badly injured by shrapnel at the rally where Bhutto was killed. On Monday, he was at Rawalpindi General, with his father at his bedside. His breathing was labored, and the top layer of skin on his face was singed off. He said he was shocked that police had not questioned him.

"Why is no one asking me what happened? It's important to know the truth," he said as his father's eyes went wet.

"The truth is, there really is no investigation at all," said Babar Awan, a top official in Bhutto's Pakistan People's Party who said he saw Bhutto's body after the attack and identified two clearly defined bullet wounds -- entry and exit points.


He said that the principal professor of surgery at the hospital, Muhammad Mussadiq Khan, was "extremely nervous, but eventually told me that Bhutto had died of a bullet wound."

"Why was this man so nervous?" Awan said. "He told me firsthand he was under pressure not to talk about how she died."

Reached at his home in Islamabad, Khan declined to comment, saying he worked for a government hospital and was trying to "do my duty and remain a doctor." In published reports in the English-language newspaper Dawn, Khan has changed his story on multiple occasions, first speaking about bullet wounds and later backing away from those comments.

Over the weekend, Athar Minallah, a board member at Rawalpindi General, e-mailed journalists Bhutto's medical report. The report, which was separate from documents that doctors say have been confiscated, describes a deep wound in Bhutto's head that was leaking brain matter.

No "foreign body" was found in the wound, the report says, and no exit wound was recorded. But in an X-ray of Bhutto's skull, the doctors identified "two to three tiny radio-densities." Minallah said in an interview that the report suggested those were bullet fragments.

U.S. medical experts said the "radio-densities" were probably not bullets.

Thomas M. Scalea, physician in chief of the shock trauma center at the University of Maryland Medical Center, said that while there was no evidence of a bullet wound, he was also perplexed by how the blunt force of Bhutto's head against an object could have caused brain damage severe enough to kill her so quickly.

"The whole thing strikes me as very unusual," said Scalea.

Bhutto's widower and the interim leader of her party, Asif Ali Zardari, has requested an investigation into her death by the United Nations.Confused

President Pervez Musharraf's spokesman, retired Gen. Rashid Qureshi, said Musharraf is "considering" an offer from the British government to assist in an investigation. Qureshi said Bhutto's husband bore responsibility for the controversy, because he had denied the government permission to conduct an autopsy immediately after Bhutto's death, on the grounds that it could not be trusted.

"The body can be exhumed now if the family allows," Qureshi said. "There's no problem with that."

Witte reported from Karachi. Special correspondent Imtiaz Ali in Peshawar and staff writer Jason Ukman and staff researcher Robert E. Thomason in Washington contributed to this report.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/31/AR2007123102493_2.html?hpid=topnews&sid=ST2007123102506
Back to Top
Temujin View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar
Sirdar Bahadur

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: Eurasia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5221
  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jan-2008 at 18:15
you don't know where he hit her head anyways, heads can explode but they don't have to as a rule. 9mm can even bounce off from front windows of cars, as everyone knows who ever watched Dirty Harry... Tongue
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jan-2008 at 18:07
9mm would be sufficient as well. Only a fairly weal round like the .22 would not cause a catastrophic head injury.
Back to Top
Temujin View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar
Sirdar Bahadur

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: Eurasia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5221
  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jan-2008 at 17:53
Originally posted by Sparten

Even a handgun bullet would at that range be sufficient to burst her head.



in the case of a high caliber revolver maybe, but this looks more like 9mm, so the head would not explode.
Back to Top
Gharanai View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Afghan Empire

Joined: 26-Jan-2006
Location: Afghanistan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1515
  Quote Gharanai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jan-2008 at 17:22
Originally posted by maqsad

She wasn't killed by "extremists" it was done by people from her own family and her own party. The "extremists" are just the patsies and perhaps the hitmen, not the masterminds or the co-conspirators.

1  Who refused to get her body autopsied?

2  Who told her to stick her head out of the car at that moment?

3  Who would have known exactly when to tell her to stick her head     out and coaxed her into it?

4  Who is now refusing to have her body exumed?

5  Who inherited more than a billion dollars suddenly, who is taking over the reigns of the PPP?
 
Well dear Maqsad, to be honest I too doubted your question # 2 and 5.
I mean while she had already escaped the terror attack on her in Karachi there is no way any supporter/admirer of her would had suggest her to take out her head of car.
The person who was incharge of her security surely would had denied such a suggestion in any case.
Plus if you have read it or not, that Shere Rahman (PPP Spokesperson) who was in the car following BB's car told the reporters that just 1 minute before the accident all supporters of the PPP were told to get away from the car (which I think, though it was a security matter but could also could have been a path clearing procedure so that the shooter could have a better aim, which he did) by some regional leader of PPP.
 
Taking that in mind and what Zardari did to Murtaza Bhutto, one may just set and think about it.
 
 


Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jan-2008 at 15:21

Even a handgun bullet would at that range be sufficient to burst her head.

Back to Top
deadkenny View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 21-Aug-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 994
  Quote deadkenny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jan-2008 at 14:42
Originally posted by Sparten

If that had been the case, her head would have exploded. Here how a bullet effects a persons head....


However, there is a huge difference between the effect of a high velocity rifle bullet and a much lower velocity handgun bullet.  Clearly Bhutto was shot with a handgun and the film of the motion of her head prior to the bomb blast is consistent with being hit in the head by a handgun bullet.
Back to Top
maqsad View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 25-Aug-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 928
  Quote maqsad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jan-2008 at 01:28
The Indians opened 14 consulates in Afghanistan....coincidence? Shocked
Back to Top
Omar al Hashim View Drop Down
King
King

Suspended

Joined: 05-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5697
  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jan-2008 at 00:16
I like your inside job theory Maqsad

But look, lets face it; it was the indians
Back to Top
Afghanan View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Durr e Durran

Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1098
  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2007 at 18:48
OK.  LOL
 
Can't wait for your 'analysis.'
The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak
Back to Top
maqsad View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 25-Aug-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 928
  Quote maqsad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2007 at 18:42
Interesting possibility. Murtaza Bhutto did go and live in Kabul for a few years and would have picked up a lot of KHAD connections, thanks for reminding me. I'm not gunna say anything without reading this though:






Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 4>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.094 seconds.