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  Quote anum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Indian Food History
    Posted: 14-Dec-2007 at 22:13
I have always wondered what was Indian food like before the Mughals? Does any one know what indians use to eat before the muslims came? Majority of the Indian dishes today have been influenced by afghan or persian dishes through the mughals.
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2007 at 23:45
Probably the Dutch and Portuguese had more influence on Indian food than anyone else.
 
 
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  Quote anum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2007 at 20:03
what are you talking about??? how is indian food similar to dutch or portuguese?
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2007 at 20:27
They introduced all of the ingredients from the new world to India.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2007 at 20:46
This thread is quite idiotic based on the ideas presented so far.
For instance there are at least 14 books in just 11th century that talk about different foods available in the north part of the country, not to mention other regions.  This will make it all prior to coming of the Muslims or the Euro guys in India.
 
Prior to the creation of religion that we know as Islam, there are books from 3 rd century till 7th century which do have descriptions of foods available and off course eating habits of people.  One has to just read and not be lazy trying to formulate things on internet or look for information on internet. 
 
If any of you are serious and have an open mind with some money in your pocket, then acquire language skills and an abillity to read other scripts.  Else you will create similar threads which are baseless.
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  Quote anum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2007 at 21:03
^ ok when did i say indians didn't have food before muslims? all i am saying is many of indian dishes today are because of muslims who came to india

Edited by anum - 16-Dec-2007 at 21:04
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  Quote maqsad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2007 at 02:15
Whats rather odd is that chilli peppers are supposed to have been introduced into the subcontinent after the 1490s according to "historians" but somehow Indians were using chillis in cooking long before that. 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2007 at 02:29
Chillis are from the Americas. It is impossible Indians used them before globalization. It is possible, though, they have a similar plant with a less potent effect, that was replaced by chilli peppers.
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2007 at 02:36
Originally posted by maqsad

Whats rather odd is that chilli peppers are supposed to have been introduced into the subcontinent after the 1490s according to "historians" but somehow Indians were using chillis in cooking long before that. 
 
It would be very interesting to order a dish of Dum Aloo in the 1480's.
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  Quote anum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2007 at 03:21

actually i discovered that south indian dish called idli was invented in 7 Ad

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  Quote maqsad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2007 at 03:32
Originally posted by pinguin

Chillis are from the Americas. It is impossible Indians used them before globalization. It is possible, though, they have a similar plant with a less potent effect, that was replaced by chilli peppers.


Unless chilli peppers were brought to the Americas from India or SE Asia long before 1492.
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  Quote anum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2007 at 03:39
i think green chillis and some others have been growing in india for long time, you can find those in jungles
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2007 at 03:59
Originally posted by maqsad

Originally posted by pinguin

Chillis are from the Americas. It is impossible Indians used them before globalization. It is possible, though, they have a similar plant with a less potent effect, that was replaced by chilli peppers.


Unless chilli peppers were brought to the Americas from India or SE Asia long before 1492.
 
 
Indian explorers brought chilli peppers from India to the Americas in order to use as bait for small flightless birds.


Edited by Paul - 17-Dec-2007 at 04:00
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  Quote jdalton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2007 at 04:15
Originally posted by Paul

Indian explorers brought chilli peppers from India to the Americas in order to use as bait for small flightless birds.

...And then the birds went extinct in 1491 so everybody went back home?

Seriously though, European cooking would also be unrecognizable without American ingredients. Imagine Italy without tomatoes (or noodles) or Ireland and Russia without potatoes! Those who have mentioned having books on ancient Indian cooking, please share specifics! How was Subcontinental cooking the same or different from today?
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  Quote jayeshks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2007 at 18:36
Here's an article on the topic from The Hindu in 2004:
http://www.hindu.com/seta/2004/11/04/stories/2004110400061500.htm


Changes in the Indian menu over the ages

THE FOOD that we Indians have been eating has been, over the millennia, steadily evolving both in variety and taste. Fortunately for us, these have been identified from relics and fossils, and also described in the written lore over the years.

As discussed in the last article two weeks ago, the late Dr. K. T. Achaya has analysed these in a scholarly and entertaining way in his books Indian Food: A Historical Companion and A Historical Dictionary of Indian Food. He traces how our food habits and preferences have changed in stages over the last 4000 years, from the Indus Valley days through the Vedic times and after the influence of Buddhist and Jain thought, and their impact on the Dharma Sutras and Arthasastra of around 300 BC.

By the time we reach the Middle Ages (1000-1200 AD), we find several texts and commentaries across the country that talk about culinary habits of local people and their kings. A meal was now expected to have six components of quality and taste.

Royal meal

These are madhura (sweet), amla (sour), lavana (salty), kata (pungent), tikta (bitter) and kasaya (astringent), as prescribed earlier on by Sushruta (around 600 AD). The Bhavissayattakaha (of AD 1000) describes the royal meal of King Shrenika thus. First were served fruits that could be chewed (grape, pomegranate, ber), then fruits to be sucked (sugarcane, oranges, mangoes).

Food that could be licked came next and in the fourth course came solid sweet items such as sevaka, modaka and phenaka. Rice followed next and the sixth was of broths. Curd preparation made the seventh course and the eighth ended with thickened milk flavoured with saffron. Items such as parpata (papad) and vataka (vadam) were common.

The extant vegetables ranged pretty much as before cucumber, brinjal, snake gourd and other gourds, yams, French beans and cluster beans, leafy greens, onions and garlic, coconut, cowpea, sweet potato (?) and such. It was with the entry of the Portuguese that a floodgate of new vegetables entered the Indian land and kitchens.

They brought potato, tomato, tapioca, groundnuts, corn, papaya, pineapple, guava, avocado, rajma (kidney bean), cashew, sapota (chiku), and of course capsicum and chilli in all its forms (and I felt bad hearing about idli importation!). Perhaps the cauliflower and cabbage came from Europe or Latin America too, but certainly a particular form of cottage cheese did come from the Portuguese. It was this that became the chhana of Bengal and Orissa the base for many Bengali sweets (Sandesh in its modern form, and of course inventions called Rasogolla, Khirmohan, Mouchak, Pantua, Sitabhog, Chhena Puda, and so forth).

The Portuguese word for grain, grao, was taken up to describe Indian pulses as Bengal gram, horse gram and other grams. While the Arabs and Central Asians brought bajra, jowar, lobia and forms of bread (roti) into India, the Portuguese enriched Indian food through their diverse introductions. When we eat Aloo-poori, we partake of the richness of the produce of people from West Asia and Latin America!

Mughal influence

The next major influence on Indian cuisine came with the Mughals, starting with Babar who came in 1526 to stay but four years here. While he remained aloof to the Indian supper-tables, his son Humayun took to them easier and also introduced a few new items to it. It is with Akbar, and through the book Ain-i-Akbari, that we know of many new dishes, ovens and recipes that came into India through the Mughal court. Dishes like khichri, palak-sag, biryani, pilaf, haleem, harisa, qutab (samosa), yakhni, kabab, do-pyaza, dumpukht, naan, tandoori, chapati (phulka) and khushka.

The delicious cold kulfi was made at court by freezing a mixture of khoa, pista nuts and zafran essence in a metal cone after sealing the open top with dough. (The only modification today is to use aluminium or plastic cones with their own caps). Jahangir, unlike his father, enjoyed meat, but will be remembered for popularizing falooda (a jelly made from boiled wheat strainings mixed with fruit juices and cream).

With the Mughal introduction of the varieties of bread, meat dishes (particularly of fowl) and the ovens to make them, and their methods to make ice locally, the cuisine of much of North India transformed forever.

The Chinese had their influence too, though not to the extent of the Portuguese and the Moghuls. Mulberry, blackberry and the litchi fruit came to us through them. Of Chinese origin are also the sweet cherry and the peach. China also developed the leafy variety of Brassica juncea (rai), which we in India use as a vegetable. Camphor is a Chinese import and introduction (it is even today called chinakarpura).

The soybean was imported from China into India in 1908 for cultivation, though it caught on widely only after the U.S. variety was introduced in 1970s. And the most precious introduction of China to India (and to the world at large) is of course their cha or teh, namely tea. Just imagine what we do first thing in the morning we pay obeisance to the Arabs with a cup of coffee (they brought it to us in the 1600s) or to the Chinese with our steaming cuppa.

Introduction of apple

Compared to this cornucopia, the British brought us little in terms of food. Fish and chips or Yorkshire pudding pale in comparison to what we got from the Arabs, Portuguese and Moghuls, but the British did sensitise us to at least one fruit, namely the apple. Local varieties of apple are recorded to have occured in Kashmir (called amri, tarehli and maharaji), and Dalhara in 1100 AD talked about a "ber as big as a fist and very sweet, grown in North Kashmir", which is likely an apple. But it was the colourful Britisher Frederick "Pahari" Wilson who established a flourishing apple farm in Garhwal, where they grow red and juicy Wilson apples to this day.

In these days of American imports into India such as Pizza, Burgers, French fries and colas, it is well to remember the best import we have had from these, namely apples and express our gratitude to the American Mr. Stokes.

He settled in Kotgarh near Simla in the 1920s and started apple orchards there, and helped in the proper grading, packing and marketing of the fruit.

India-America amity

The two varieties he introduced, called `Delicious', have now become the major Indian apple varieties, making the Himachal apple growers happy and more prosperous than before. He married a local girl and settled down.

His descendants Smt. Vidya Stokes (politician) and Dr. Vijay Stokes (scientist) are well known. Though Australian apples are increasingly found in the Indian market, it is still the Delicious that rules the roost. Next time you bite into an Indian apple, you are celebrating Indo-American amity!

One wonders, going as far back as the scriptures, what Lord Rama ate. Perhaps it is easier to tell what Lord Rama did not eat.

No potato, no tomato, no cauliflower, broccoli, cabbage, corn, tapioca, rajma, nor of course chillies in any form! But then, I could be wrong since the sarva vyapi or the omnipresent might very well have partaken of all these whenever He was in Europe and the Americas.

(Concluded)

D. Balasubramanian


The earliest types of Indian cuisine are partially reflected in the type of food prepared during Hindu religious ceremonies even today, especially in the Sattvic diet which some follow: fruits, nuts, vegetables, lentils and whole grains.  Ironically, this diet forbids garlic, onions, chillies and spices which people typically associate with Indian food. 


Edited by jayeshks - 17-Dec-2007 at 18:47
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2007 at 21:49
Originally posted by jdalton

Originally posted by Paul

Indian explorers brought chilli peppers from India to the Americas in order to use as bait for small flightless birds.

...And then the birds went extinct in 1491 so everybody went back home?

Seriously though, European cooking would also be unrecognizable without American ingredients. Imagine Italy without tomatoes (or noodles) or Ireland and Russia without potatoes! Those who have mentioned having books on ancient Indian cooking, please share specifics! How was Subcontinental cooking the same or different from today?
 
Nothing to be ashamed. The Americas contributed with more than half the vegetables and fruits the world consumes today.
 
As happened in Italy, Russia, China and everywhere in the Old World, the influence of American products in India is nothing strange at all.
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  Quote anum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2007 at 22:46

i think many of the spices were already there in India. Yes lots of fruits and vegtables were brought from the americas but interms of ingrediants many were already there.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2007 at 00:12
Originally posted by anum

i think many of the spices were already there in India. Yes lots of fruits and vegtables were brought from the americas but interms of ingrediants many were already there.

 
Certainly. Pepper, cloves, ginger, paprika, garlic, cinnamon, mustard, etc. where all known in India before the discovery of the America. Almost all the ingredients of curry. But Chilly peppers are from the Americas.
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  Quote anum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2007 at 00:45

^ btw do they eat indian food in south america?

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2007 at 00:54
Where I live (Chile) Chinese is popular and massive, Indian food is exclusive and few people knows it. There aren't many East Indians in here at all. However, I am pretty sure that must be a very important kind of food in the Guyanas, and particularly in Trinidad and Tobaggo, where half the population has ancestry in India.
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