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The End of the Roman Republic and Star Wars episodes I-III
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hugoestr View Drop Down
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Posts: 3987 		  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The End of the Roman Republic and Star Wars episodes I-III
    Posted: 02-Mar-2005 at 09:15
I am sure that every aficionado of Roman history and Star Wars have noticed that George Lucas is retelling the end of the Roman Republic in Episodes I trough III. Just in case we ever missed it, he even calls what follows the republic, "The Empire."

Is the retelling successful? Where does it succeed? Where does it fail? Do you like it? Does it stink?

I am curious of your opinions.
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PeaceInOurTime View Drop Down
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Posts: 0 		  Quote PeaceInOurTime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2005 at 11:58

I think it says just as much about changes in America right now.

The names of the green aliens in the first movie (Nute Gunray, etc.) were based on infamous Republican senators.



Edited by PeaceInOurTime
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Justinian View Drop Down
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Posts: 1399 		  Quote Justinian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2007 at 23:00
I would say Lucas definitely took elements of roman history and used it in his films.  I think the way he uses it succeeds quite well.  The prequels are much more epic a story; to me the old trilogy was the telling of the nobody hero rising to succeed, whereas the prequels were all about the major players and their fall.  I think the prequels are better because they have that epic element, that the fall of the roman republic had in surplus. 
"War is a cowardly escape from the problems of peace."--Thomas Mann

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hugoestr View Drop Down
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Posts: 3987 		  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2007 at 03:02
It seems like the discussion if finally taking off :)

Any other opinions on this?
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Guests View Drop Down
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2007 at 04:15
Well, the Roman Empire is nothing new in Science Fiction. Asimov's Foundation Series is exacltly that. A retelling of Gibson's fall of the Roman Empire. So, Star Wars once again has copied other idea from classic science fiction.
 
Yeap. Pick Asimov's Foundation series, Pricess of Mars, Martian Chronicles, Flash Gordon, secuences of WW II like Tora Tora Tora, the aestetics of 2001 Space Odyssey, and a little bit of Star Trek, and other classic tales in a mixer during ten minutes, and what you will obtain is Star Wars LOL


Edited by pinguin - 16-Dec-2007 at 04:17
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calvo View Drop Down
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Posts: 846 		  Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2007 at 16:26
I also saw the parellels: a corrupt republic with its rancid senators transformed into an empire through a revolution.

It effectively condenses the last 100 years of history of the Roman republic into a much shorter period.
The "clones" were effectively the post-Marian army who owed their loyalty to the general, and the "jedis" probably represented the citizen's militia that preceeded it.
The Emperor, or Darth Sedious, would be a combination of several characters: Sulla, Julius Caesar, and Augustus.

Personally I regard the last century of the Roman Republic as one of the most interesting episodes of history, and shares many parallels to the age of revolutions and dictatorships of the modern age.
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Reginmund View Drop Down
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Posts: 1943 		  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2007 at 20:26
Originally posted by calvo

The "clones" were effectively the post-Marian army who owed their loyalty to the general, and the "jedis" probably represented the citizen's militia that preceeded it.


I agree with everything you say, but I think the analogy with the citisen militia is incorrect. I believe Lucas himself stated they were inspired by the samurais and the templars. The name "jedi" was a corruption of the "jidai" in the period of Japanese history known as "Jiday Geki" or "Sengoku Jidai" ("time of war").

Apart from this the prequels seem mostly based on the late Roman Republic, and this is part of what makes them enjoyable for me.
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Justinian View Drop Down
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Posts: 1399 		  Quote Justinian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2007 at 08:26
Originally posted by hugoestr

It seems like the discussion if finally taking off :)
LOL  Better late than never right?
 
There are also a lot of parrells to the rise of hitler.
"War is a cowardly escape from the problems of peace."--Thomas Mann

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Posts: 223 		  Quote YusakuJon3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2007 at 23:44
I agree with Justinian more than anything, although there is a bit of mirror-imaging of the fall of Republican Rome in the prequels.  It's more to me that the Emperor is kind of a Hitler-like character in the nature of his rise to power and his influence over people within his circle.  Like Hitler, it seems that he never took the time to shape a successor to himself (unlike the Roman emperors, starting with Julius and Augustus Caesar).
"There you go again!"

-- President Ronald W. Reagan (directed towards reporters at a White House press conference, mid-1980s)
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Guests View Drop Down
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2007 at 04:20
He was raising a successor in the person of Darth Vader, and his son, it is obvious that he wouldn't live forever, but a loyal successor that also served as a loyal general is a good asset.

It parallels Roman Republic generals of late, too. We see that similar relationship first with Gaius Julius Caesar and Marcus Antonius, and later with his nephew Gaius Julius Caesar Octavius. Caesar being the mastermind and great politician (Palpatine as well being a good politician and having superb rhetoric) and Antonius the brute relentless disciplined and successful warrior (Darth Vader too has a similar personality trait).

With Octavius you can see Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa  taking on the role of the loyal general.
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