Hang ups between Blacks and Africans

Originally posted by Reginmund Originally posted by joeamonroe <font face="Times New Roman" size="3">As an African (Black) American we are often asked the question, how would you like to be defined? Do you want to be classified as Black or African American? <span style="">�</span>Many times I�m told that: why should we be called African American they think their better then us, they turn their noses up at us, they don�t respect us. <span style="">�</span>For me I want to be called African at all times but how do I get my people in American to know that we Africans from around the world have been hood winked. So with this forum my intent is to ask as many Africans and Blacks what are the hang ups and why do we have them. I've always had problems with the term African American, for two reasons. First it doesn't necessarily indicate a Black man; it also includes the Arabs and Berbers of North Africa. And second, these so-called African Americans have been settled in America for as long or even longer than many White Americans, yet you never hear about "European Americans" - why is it necessary to indicate continent of origin for one group but not another?Also, I've never understood the disdain with which some people (both White and Black) regard the term Negro, as it means exactly the same as Black, just in Spanish. Why is this word more derogative in Spanish than in English?

Because of the context within which it was used. It was used as a pejorative, the same way Jew often was in the past.

Because of the context within which it was used. It was used as a pejorative, the same way Jew often was in the past.

Aha! But in the past using the term "Black" was more offensive than "Negro". In fact Black only began to become socially acceptable when during the Civil Rights movements the militant wing of that movement took on the "shocking" term to turn the word Black from one of racial insult to that of racial empowerment. Much in the same way that rappers use the word "nigga" to refer to themselves. I'd imagine that in the future far from negro being appropriate perhaps nigga will lose any pejorative context, but then again I don't know much about speculative language evolution.

I found this hard to read for several reasons.

I found that quote hard to read for one specific reason.....sorry joke .

Firstly, the dysfunctional elements holding a lot of lower class blacks are not elements of "BLACK" culture, they are DYSFUNCTIONAL ELEMENTS.

Exactly, it is more of an issue of poverty over race.

However I will say that many black leaders abuse the situation of black poverty to their advantage. I feel that many use the old Roman adage of "bread and circuses" to gain popularity at the expense of the social mobility of their brethren. For instance back when there was a big talk about "repairations" for slavery, black leaders jumped on this issue with abandon instead of addressing the social issues that plague many in the black community, most of which stem from poorly planned social programs and absentee fathers and the social trauma it inflicts upon a community which leads to drug abuse, criminal gangs, irresponsible promiscuity, and general apathy.

Now I'm not saying all blacks are fatherless thugs obviously, but statistically a disproportionate amount of blacks in the US are affected by one of the issues, I blame it on American society's haphazard and short-sighted social programs that only look to treat the problems in America and not solve any of them. Unfortunately there are too many Malcolm X's and not enough Martin Luther King's.

For example we don't speak of the Anglo American community, they are just American, but we do have Irish Americans, German Americans, Italian Americans etc.

Well many English-Americans don't refer to themselves as generally American, rather they would say they were English if asked. Very rarely do "whites" use a hyphenation when stating their ethnicity. This is mostly because unlike in the black community they can trace their families back to the "old country". Unfortunately due to the legacy of slavery many blacks cannot do this. I mean in Africa a Wolof and an Ibo are as different as night and day, but if a Wolof descended black and an Ibo descended black met each other at their school, they wouldn't see that they would just see "black" which is what the race obsessed early Americans would have wanted them to see.

Creating an "artificial" identity though doesn't necessarily diminish one's ancestors nor does it make your "ethnicity" any less deserving than anyone elses. Take for instance the Indian Confederations of the Cherokee, the Iroquois and the Shawnee. All of these "tribes" are merely a mishmash of survivors of various ethnicities who banded together due to decimation of disease. We don't know the history of all the groups of the Shawnee for instance because by the time Europeans finally reached them they're histories had been lost and they created a new people. This is the same way for blacks in America, however I feel that it isn't proper for them to speak of themselves as if they were true Africans. Because they are quite simply not, their history is separate from the sordid colonialism the Africans suffered, and their history is separate from the struggles of those who remained in Africa, just as the American blacks had struggles separate from the African blacks.

Again I will quote Paul:

Someone who calls themselves African-American is showing themselves to be very American and not very African

Originally posted by joeamonroe the article was used to display the nonsense sent around the world that many people use to form their opinions about blacks in USA as well as africans

Black American is more often used here the USA, and I doubt Caribbean Minorities or Middle Eastern ones in Europe are considered ethnic British or whatever the case is.  People have a sense of both National and Ethnic identity, its perfectly human.

 While "African-American" is mainly used by a lot've Blacks for political reasons, however not all Blacks  like using the label "African",  like for instance Jamaicans, they highly dislike being labeled as "African-Americans".

The term "African" isnt used to encompass any of the indigenous Whites of Africa, like Berbers, Egyptians ect.  The term "African" today is a PC term for Negroids, especially when in the discussion of Race and such.

This thread has brought back rememberences of a show that i saw back in the very early ninties. I don't remember the title, but it seems like it was more like an extremely powerful social drama?

Edited by Panther - 21-Jan-2008 at 05:26

Ignorance is based on lack of information,and Africa has a higher degree of ignorance among it population then Europe,not because African are black but because Europians have very easy acsess to information.

My opinion is that African-American is not the Ideal name for this community,but their history in America is not like the history of the other communities,therefore we can not say why are black people called like that but white europian people not.Because there is a difference as to the origines of this communities and their history in America. I think as long as there is a complete reconsiliation between the communities the term African-American is well fited.

Originally posted by King John .... I think you are confusing IQ with being a savant. IQ testing doesn't demonstrate intelligence, what it demonstrates is the ability to choose the right answer. The questions are normally culturally biased and if it is effected by how much education a person has then it doesn't measure intelligence but rather how well a person retains learned information. I.Q. tests also only measure one type of intelligence out of many.

Originally posted by King John Only one problem Pinguin, often I.Q. tests are given early in life and ask children to identify shapes and patterns. These tests also don't take into account disabilities, there are many people with learning disabilities who are actually very intelligent but might not test well. For instance some people with dislexia might not do well on I.Q. tests while actually having a high IQ. The cultural bias is not in asking somebody who's language is not English to do it in English but rather in the actual questions.

I think you might be over-generalizing there, amigo. For one thing, MENSA is an international organization, so I highly doubt that it's requisite testing only measures "familiarity with White Protestant Middle Class American culture." Also, to call them "some of the dumbest nitwits I [sic] will ever meet" is categorically wrong.

Now, I'm not disputing that many IQ tests (for there are many different permutations) do have certain cultural biases (because certainly many of them do), but throwing around blanket generalizations and casting about slurs doesn't do anything to rectify the problem or even begin to address a solution. Any form of standardized testing will have a certain contextual/cultural slant; it's just unavoidable. So do all forms of language, all social norms, all customs, biases, prejudices, opinions and worldviews. Postmodern theorists have been addressing these sorts of concerns for years. I'd look some of them up (Foucoult is always a good place to start) before falling back on the "sweeping generalizations/ unoriginal insults" card...

Originally posted by Brian J Checco I think you might be over-generalizing there, amigo. For one thing, MENSA is an international organization, so I highly doubt that it's requisite testing only measures "familiarity with White Protestant Middle Class American culture." Also, to call them "some of the dumbest nitwits I [sic] will ever meet" is categorically wrong. Now, I'm not disputing that many IQ tests (for there are many different permutations) do have certain cultural biases (because certainly many of them do), but throwing around blanket generalizations and casting about slurs doesn't do anything to rectify the problem or even begin to address a solution. Any form of standardized testing will have a certain contextual/cultural slant; it's just unavoidable. So do all forms of language, all social norms, all customs, biases, prejudices, opinions and worldviews. Postmodern theorists have been addressing these sorts of concerns for years. I'd look some of them up (Foucoult is always a good place to start) before falling back on the "sweeping generalizations/ unoriginal insults" card...

Are all MENSA members nitwits, of course not, but many of the ones I know personally are. As for unoriginal insults, why go through the trouble of making up a new one when the ready made ones work just fine?

The real point of the matter is that a high I.Q. is not a gaurantee of how a person is able to interact in the real world. You can have a very high I.Q. and be dysfunctional in the extreeme. People put much too much trust in them than they deserve. Knowledge without wisdom is useless, wisdome without knowledge is useless. An I.Q. test does not measure how well rounded an individual is, their ability to interact and communicate effectively with other people or any of the other things one actually needs to function in the practical world.