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Putin once again Tsar?

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ulrich von hutten View Drop Down
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  Quote ulrich von hutten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Putin once again Tsar?
    Posted: 02-Dec-2007 at 10:09
Today another example of democracy (russian style) takes place.
 
In Russia the new parliament will be elected. As a memory to the gone times,Vladimir Putin has used the sychronized media for his election campaign.
 
The opposition was awed and the result of this election is easy to foretell.
 
The EC has renounced to send election observers, cause their duty would be prevent.

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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2007 at 12:24
Do you think it is the media which has the Russian people on Putin's side?  I would rather think that it's Russia's rise under the man's stewardship.  And at least in Russia you can't get elected with less votes than your rivals.
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2007 at 13:09
Russian internal affairs. They are doing much better under "that man" than they ever did under the enlightened utopia of yesltsin's democracy.
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  Quote Gharanai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2007 at 19:26
Totally agree with Sparten, I mean just match today's Russia with Russia of decade back.
I really like a hardliner leader who when says something then does it, not like those others who say something, think other and do .... mmmm something amazingly different.


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  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2007 at 19:53
Let the man rule his country!!!! His doing good, although in an autocratic way.Wink
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2007 at 20:10
Ihave no idea how he is doing as Russia's leader, however, he does run a tight ship and he did jail opposition party leaders (Kasparov). That is discerning.
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  Quote Mughal e Azam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2007 at 20:25
For those in America who bemoan a lack of democracy in other nations. Do they not realize that sometimes these countries are supported or even brought to the platform by America?
 
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  Quote Ponce de Leon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2007 at 20:51
I dont like how the Russian bueracracy has all this power. I read incidents of how people are too afriad to go to the police to report a crime because it is still to corrupt. Also Putin still does not handle opposition very well because he would either kill them or throw them in prison. I guess there are different ways of judging some1 depending on which ethical system you use to view whats going on
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  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2007 at 21:14
Originally posted by Ponce de Leon

I dont like how the Russian bueracracy has all this power. I read incidents of how people are too afriad to go to the police to report a crime because it is still to corrupt. Also Putin still does not handle opposition very well because he would either kill them or throw them in prison. I guess there are different ways of judging some1 depending on which ethical system you use to view whats going on
 
This is just a biased propaganda having very few things to do with the Russian realities.
 
From this description seems that Russia is now like during some worst days of Stalinism. This is TOTALLY false !


Edited by Sarmat12 - 02-Dec-2007 at 21:35
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  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2007 at 21:30
Originally posted by Seko

Ihave no idea how he is doing as Russia's leader, however, he does run a tight ship and he did jail opposition party leaders (Kasparov). That is discerning.
 
Perhaps, you guys will be surprised but...
 
 
 
This is the picture with the most ardent supporters of Mr. Kasparov i.e. National Bolsheviks. In most of the civilized countries the activities of the people like these are simply labelled as "extremist." Mr. Kasparov enjoys such a high degree of "popularity" among Russian public that he has ally himself with the people shown above.
 
Nobody meant to impreason him for "political reason." But the fact that he is popular in the West and enjoys the friendship of National-Bolsheviks doesn't free him of the responsibility to follow the law. Which he effectively didn't do by conducting an illegal gathering and provocing clashes with authorities.
 
Perhaps he wants to be a new Lenin?  But to me it just looks like a cheap attempts to bring the attention of the Western massmedia to some insignificant events.
 
You can get more information about Mr. Kasparov's supporters here:
 
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  Quote ArmenianSurvival Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2007 at 21:46
     Well isn't Kasparov's party a coalition of parties which oppose Putin, meaning that the Bolsheviks are just one component of his supporters?
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  Quote Roberts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2007 at 21:53
It is natural process of what is happening in Russia, because Russian human can't live normally if he isn't ruled by autocratic lord with whip and this conception has been enrooted very deep in their consciousness and mentality starting from the Mongol khans, Muscow czars and Soviet regime.
They reject democracy as unnatural, because it makes them look weak in their own eyes.
What is happening in Russia is an amalgamation of oriental despotism and "benevolent" dictatorship.
I wouldn't be surprised if Putin will become the president again after 4 years, since the Russia's laws allow that.

Hail Putin - Emperor and Autocrat of all the Russias, lord of Russian media, true head of Gazprom, king of the pipelines, and so forth, and so forth.

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  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2007 at 22:10
Originally posted by ArmenianSurvival

     Well isn't Kasparov's party a coalition of parties which oppose Putin, meaning that the Bolsheviks are just one component of his supporters?
 
A person who really respect democratic values, wouldn't unite with such "allies."
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2007 at 22:18
Originally posted by axeman

It is natural process of what is happening in Russia, because Russian human can't live normally if he isn't ruled by autocratic lord with whip and this conception has been enrooted very deep in their consciousness and mentality starting from the Mongol khans, Muscow czars and Soviet regime.
They reject democracy as unnatural, because it makes them look weak in their own eyes.
What is happening in Russia is an amalgamation of oriental despotism and "benevolent" dictatorship.
I wouldn't be surprised if Putin will become the president again after 4 years, since the Russia's laws allow that.

Hail Putin - Emperor and Autocrat of all the Russias, lord of Russian media, true head of Gazprom, king of the pipelines, and so forth, and so forth.



Mate, that's verging on code of conduct violation.  a huge generalisation.
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  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2007 at 22:31
Originally posted by axeman

It is natural process of what is happening in Russia, because Russian human can't live normally if he isn't ruled by autocratic lord with whip and this conception has been enrooted very deep in their consciousness and mentality starting from the Mongol khans, Muscow czars and Soviet regime.
They reject democracy as unnatural, because it makes them look weak in their own eyes.
What is happening in Russia is an amalgamation of oriental despotism and "benevolent" dictatorship.
I wouldn't be surprised if Putin will become the president again after 4 years, since the Russia's laws allow that.

Hail Putin - Emperor and Autocrat of all the Russias, lord of Russian media, true head of Gazprom, king of the pipelines, and so forth, and so forth.

 
The thing about democracy is that true democracy can be based only on certain "fundamentals."
 
Some of those are strong middle class, economic stability and developed legal system.
 
None of those exists in modern Russia now.
 
All these references to the Russian history and enrooted conceptions do have some sense, but only limited one. But if you want to talk about the cases of democracy in Russian history there are those as well. A good example is Novgorod republic. In fact, there is an extravagant theory that the same political system as in Novgorod republic existed in all the Ancient Russian states. 
 
During modern times we saw how the societes, which had history of autocratic rule and lack of democracy for milleniums (I specifically mean here Japan, Korea and Taiwan) were able to create democracies.
 
Russia is the same thing. You can cry that it's not democratic now. But it will never become democratic absent the conditions above.
 
The country needs strong economy now, then it can create a meaningful civil society. The strong economy and civil society will enable to create a functioning legal system and then all these factors combined will create a functioning democracy.
 
There never will be democracy in economically undeveloped, corrupt country (perhaps one can find few examples of the opposite but they will be very specific).
 
What Putin did is that he improved the economy. As long as the middle class is developing there is a hope for democracy in Russia.
 
The country is on the right way.
 
However, never one be able to create "democracy" under current conditions in Russia. Eltsin's democracy was a joke. It was a bloody corrupted regime hated by its own people.
 
If the things will go in Russia like they go now, the country will become democratic in 1 or 2 decades. I'm pretty optimistic about this.
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  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2007 at 22:38
Originally posted by Sarmat12

 
The thing about democracy is that true democracy can be based only on certain "fundamentals."
 
Some of those are strong middle class, economic stability and developed legal system.
 
None of those exists in modern Russia now.
 
 
True democracy was in Ancient Greece and Rome when people spent time thinking about their own country. This is something that Russia miss. Otherwise how could one believe BS from the sort of what I have seen on RTR yesterday -- How excellent was Russian science and how ridiculous is current Belgian educational system as parents spend days on cures in order to get their children in the best schools? Confused
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  Quote Mughal e Azam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2007 at 22:40
True Democracy in Rome? In Rome it was an emperor.
 
In Greece there was slavery.
 
The theorists and philosophers sat on their butts as slaves worked. So i think Mr Sarmat's theory is better than yours.
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  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2007 at 22:45
Originally posted by Sarmat12

What Putin did is that he improved the economy. As long as the middle class is developing there is a hope for democracy in Russia.
 
The country is on the right way.
 
Putin did exactly nothing to improve the economy. Independent analyses shows something different -- Putin just missed the optimal time allowing him to improve the economics.
 
 
 
However, never one be able to create "democracy" under current conditions in Russia. Eltsin's democracy was a joke. It was a bloody corrupted regime hated by its own people.
And now it is peacefull? 
 
If the things will go in Russia like they go now, the country will become democratic in 1 or 2 decades. I'm pretty optimistic about this.
Smile 
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  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2007 at 22:48
Originally posted by Mughaal

True Democracy in Rome? In Rome it was an emperor. 
In Greece there was slavery.
 
I think you understood very well what I mean.
 
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  Quote olvios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2007 at 22:53
Originally posted by Mughaal

True Democracy in Rome? In Rome it was an emperor.
 
In Greece there was slavery.
 
The theorists and philosophers sat on their butts as slaves worked. So i think Mr Sarmat's theory is better than yours.


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