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jdalton
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Topic: Native americans domesticating the Bison Posted: 22-Nov-2007 at 19:39 |
Originally posted by ConradWeiser
I think the first thing said, that bison are difficult to domesticate, is the key argument for this topic. Bison are fairly aggressive, skittish, and powerful creatures. They hence lacked one of the key elements of domesticatable animals, as is shown here on Jerad Diamond's website: http://www.pbs.org/gunsgermssteel/variables/cattle.html
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That makes the most sense. There are ranchers now who keep buffalo in pens as food animals, but I don't know how difficult it is to manage penned-in buffalo if sharing space with humans is against their nature.
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TheARRGH
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Posted: 22-Nov-2007 at 20:17 |
FRom what I understand, they managed their numbers by burning the terrain to create underbrush and grass, which resulted in more bison, which resulted in having mostly what they needed-meat, hide, bone, etc. Without having to take on the task of making ornery 2000-pound creatures more docile and friendly.
They didn't domesticate because they already were managing their ecosystem to a high degree of effectiveness-presumably it wouldn't really occur to them to do something that might have seemed unnecessary.
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Who is the great dragon whom the spirit will no longer call lord and god? "Thou shalt" is the name of the great dragon. But the spirit of the lion says, "I will." - Nietzsche
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Posted: 22-Nov-2007 at 20:27 |
Modern farmers haven't domesticated the bison at all. They kept then in tall fences, caring for them take large effort and it is still a quite dangerous activity. The meat, though, is great.
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ConradWeiser
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Posted: 23-Nov-2007 at 01:00 |
Originally posted by pinguin
Modern farmers haven't domesticated the bison at all. |
Very true. If I'm not mistaken, elephants have never been domesticated either. Tamed, yes, but not domesticated.
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Another year! Another deadly blow!
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Crystall
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Posted: 26-Nov-2007 at 04:20 |
Some animals can't be domesticated or it is very hard.. I read a book that had alot of proof for it.
Buffallo calvary would of been pretty cool though : )
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Goban
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Posted: 26-Nov-2007 at 05:23 |
It may be the way they smell too.... PEW!
But many animals, no matter how hard we tried, were undomesticatable. Sometimes it was simply a function of the inability to breed them in captivity. They just couldn't "get it on" under the stresses... Sometimes it was just too dangerous (like Japan with the American brown bear).
Also, when it takes so long to selectively breed out certain undesirable characteristics of an animal (given that breeding even takes place), you have to weigh the possibilities; it just may not be worth it.
In Jared Diamond's "Guns, Germs, and Steel" he mentions sumpweed as one of the best sources for fats and proteins, far better than any of our cereal grains we use today, but you'd have to be masochistic to try to domesticate it... Just touching it can cause severe skin irritation.
But this didn't stop Native Americans from using/consuming it... Yum!
I'd actually like to try and brew beer with it.
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jdalton
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Posted: 27-Nov-2007 at 01:29 |
I heard somewhere that the Prairies are actually poorly suited to the crops we're currently growing on them. One reason (though there may be others?) is that massive droughts of the kind that happened in the 1930s may in fact be quite common over the long term. Even with domesticatable plants, Native peoples may have been much better off leaving the buffalo to eat natural grasses without trying to fence them in and then find enough food to feed them.
But maybe that only applies to the northern Prairies? As someone said, crops like corn and squash and sunflowers were grown for centuries further south.
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drgonzaga
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Posted: 27-Nov-2007 at 04:33 |
You heard correct, JD, for years prior to the 1850s the Great Plains was described as the Great American Desert and actually unexplotable by intensive agriculture. It was not until the devising and refinement of the steel plow that agricultural exploitation could begin in earnest. yet, other hindrances were kust as great including the absence of forested surfaces. Essentially, for most of the 19th century the Great Plains were basically a hindrance to be overcome on the way to the Pacific. Here is a traditional ditty from the 1880s:
Dakota Land
Refrain: O Dakota Land, sweet Dakota land, As on thy fiery soil I stand, I look across the plains, And wonder why it never rains, Till Gabriel blows his trumpet sound And says the rain's just gone around.
We've reached the land of desert sweet, Where nothing grows for man to eat. The wind it blows with feverish heat Across the plains so hard to beat.
We've reached the land of hills and stones Where all is strewn with buffalo bones. O buffalo bones, bleached buffalo bones, I seem to hear your sighs and moans.
We have no wheat, we have no oats, We have no corn to feed our shoats; Our chickens are so very poor They beg for crumbs outside the door.
Our horses are of bronco race; Starvation stares them in the face. We do not live, we only stay; We are too poor to get away
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The Canadian Guy
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Posted: 27-Nov-2007 at 16:47 |
There are many animals that cannot be domesticated. Like here in Canada, there are deer farms, but they still have their instinct to roam freely. Moose is the biggest dear like animal in Newfoundland. It is legal to run them over...but I do not recommend it. They have been known to destroy an 18 wheeler. The transport truck driver thought he would run over a moose so he can have meat for later, but he nearly died and the front of the truck was totaled. The moose just ran away.
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jdalton
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Posted: 01-Dec-2007 at 07:35 |
Originally posted by The Canadian Guy
Like here in Canada, there are deer farms, but they still have their instinct to roam freely.
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Apparently the Mayans would round up deer and keep them in pens to be eaten later, but again, they were never domesticated. Since no one in Eurasia domesticated them either, I can only assume it can't be done.
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drgonzaga
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Posted: 01-Dec-2007 at 14:51 |
There is such a phenomenon as symbiosis between man and certain animals and one must consider the implication of such in any definition of domestication. Think of the caribou and Lapp culture...
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Posted: 01-Dec-2007 at 17:58 |
In the Andes, the Llama and alpaca become domestic animals, the Vicua is in between, but the Guanaco is a wild animal without any chance to be domesticated.
Why certain branches of the same family of animals can be domesticated and others aren't, is a mystery. Just think in horses and zebras. Why the first and not the second could be domesticated? who knows..
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