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bilal_ali_2000
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Topic: Native americans domesticating the Bison Posted: 18-Nov-2007 at 12:58 |
Why didn't the native Americans domesticated the Bison. To me it looks even more well built than the traditional bull. And as far as i know it is a herd animal. That would have solved their beast of burden problem. I am curious that why didn't they domesticated it.
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Posted: 18-Nov-2007 at 13:25 |
There are animals that are not easy to domesticate. For instance, zebras weren't domesticated in Africa at all.
There is a factor to consider when thinking in the bison, though. The Eurasian culture of domesticated cattle is based on the horse. It is not easy to manage cows in large praries walking by feet, although the Masai and Zulues of Africa do exactly like that. Perhaps you need horses to manage large numbers of bisons or risk to be crash the first time those animals got nervious.
There is other factor as well, you domesticate animals when they are not very numerous and it is too hard to hunt them. In the case of Bisons, once there were more numerous in the plains that Amerindians, so perhaps there was no need to domesticate them, with all the effort that required.
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The Canadian Guy
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Posted: 18-Nov-2007 at 13:48 |
They also hunted for honour. There is no honour in hunting a domesticated animal.
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Hate and anger is the fuel of war, while religion and politics is the foundation of it.
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Paul
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Posted: 18-Nov-2007 at 15:58 |
In prehistoric Europe domestication of animals was sporadic, in some places they did and some they didn't. The main factor seems to be abundance of food. Where the was plenty of food available no domestication was needed. The Injuns would only have needed to domesticate the bison in an area there was a shortage.
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The Canadian Guy
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Posted: 18-Nov-2007 at 16:52 |
Originally posted by Paul
In prehistoric Europe domestication of animals was sporadic, in some places they did and some they didn't. The main factor seems to be abundance of food. Where the was plenty of food available no domestication was needed. The Injuns would only have needed to domesticate the bison in an area there was a shortage. |
If you ever use that term again there is going to be trouble!
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Hate and anger is the fuel of war, while religion and politics is the foundation of it.
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King John
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Posted: 18-Nov-2007 at 17:03 |
Originally posted by The Canadian Guy
Originally posted by Paul
In prehistoric Europe domestication of animals was sporadic, in some places they did and some they didn't. The main factor seems to be abundance of food. Where the was plenty of food available no domestication was needed. The Injuns would only have needed to domesticate the bison in an area there was a shortage. | If you ever use that term again there is going to be trouble! |
Canadian Guy, you might want to specify that that term is a derogatory term for Indians. I am assuming that Paul doesn't know that since he grew up in neither the USA nor Canada where that term was used. This might aid in Paul's not using it anymore.
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Posted: 18-Nov-2007 at 17:09 |
Yeap, English is plenty of hate words... Tell me about it...
What a language!
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King John
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Posted: 18-Nov-2007 at 17:56 |
Easy now pinguin every language has plenty of hate words.
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Posted: 18-Nov-2007 at 21:22 |
Actually, believe it or not, there are very few real hate words in Spanish. If we want to ofend a person of another ethnic group or race we have to make the effort of compounding phrases! Creating stupid new words or using methaphores (comparing with animales, etc.) but the language itself is not very hateful at all.
In English it is a lot more easy to hurt anyone. The language has a good deal of ancient hate that come easily to help.
I notice that aspect of English when I lived abroad.
Edited by pinguin - 18-Nov-2007 at 21:23
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King John
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Posted: 18-Nov-2007 at 22:42 |
English hate words are either compound words, created words, or previous words given a new connotation. Every language has them, every language uses phrases that have to do with animals or newly created words to hurt people. English doesn't have any more hate words than any other language. Where are you getting your information from? It is clearly skewed towards your thinking. Like I've said already every language has words used to harm. It is no more easier to harm somebody in English than in Spanish, French, German, Hindi, Arabic, Hebrew, Swedish, Norweigian, Danish, etc. I appologize to the rest of the thread for going on this tangent and digression.
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Windemere
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Posted: 18-Nov-2007 at 23:57 |
Many of the peoples of Asia, Europe and Africa received their domesticated animals through association with other peoples whom they came into contact with. The pig is the only animal that seems to have originally been domesticated in Europe, though it was also seperately domesticated in Asia. The origins of domesticated dogs and horses is uncertain. Researchers are trying to determine if they were originally domesticated in one place and then spread throughout the world, or whether they were domesticated seperately by different peoples at different times. It's fairly certain that cattle, sheep, and goats were originally domesticated in the Fertile Crescent of the Middle East and then spread throughout the world by humans. Though a subspecies of cattle was seperately domesticated in the Indus Valley of South-Central Asia. There were wild cattle in Europe (now extinct) but these weren't the ancestors of domesticated cattle, the domesticated cattle coming from the Middle East were. Wild cats are found in Europe, Asia, and Africa, but it was the subspecies in north Africa that was domesticated and spread by humans throughout the world. The first horses were domesticated in Turkestan (Central Asia) though there were probably additional domestications elsewhere, and the European wild horse (tarpan) is very likely ancestral to modern European horse breeds.
The American Indians had no contact with the Asian, African, and European peoples so they missed out on all these domesticated animals. Although when their ancestors crossed the Bering Strait from Siberia into Alaska in prehistoric times they probably did have domesticated dogs with them, which are ancestral to the Indian dogs of America. The South American Indians did domesticate the guanaco and developed it into 2 seperate breeds (llamas as beasts of burden, alpacas for wool). They also domesticated the guinea-pig as a food-source. Mesoamerican Indians domesticated the turkey (which never existed in the wild in the Old World). Spanish explorers brought these domesticated turkeys back to Spain and they spread throughout Europe. Colonists brought these domesticated turkeys over to eastern North America and they are ancestral to American domestic turkeys (although wild turkeys, which are the same species, existed throughout North America and were hunted by the colonists, it was the Mesoamerican turkeys that were ancestral to the domesticated ones).
The North American Indians never did domesticate the bison though, probably for the reasons mentioned in the aforementioned posts. Incidentally, the wisent (European bison) was never domesticated either, though it was considered a valuable game animal for hunting.
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The Canadian Guy
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Posted: 19-Nov-2007 at 15:36 |
Originally posted by King John
Originally posted by The Canadian Guy
Originally posted by Paul
In prehistoric Europe domestication of animals was sporadic, in some places they did and some they didn't. The main factor seems to be abundance of food. Where the was plenty of food available no domestication was needed. The Injuns would only have needed to domesticate the bison in an area there was a shortage. | If you ever use that term again there is going to be trouble! |
Canadian Guy, you might want to specify that that term is a derogatory term for Indians. I am assuming that Paul doesn't know that since he grew up in neither the USA nor Canada where that term was used. This might aid in Paul's not using it anymore. |
This is no excuse for what he said. He should had not of said it. But I am more then willing to forgive him. If he didn't know what it meant, then I understand.
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Hate and anger is the fuel of war, while religion and politics is the foundation of it.
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Dolphin
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Posted: 19-Nov-2007 at 15:53 |
Pinguin, how is Latin America so brilliant?!! I just cant get my head around it!!
Bison were too diffiucult to domesticate, they was no need to domesticate them as indians had a tradition of moving from area to area, following the herds, and it simply was not in the Indian culture to domesticate.
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Posted: 19-Nov-2007 at 15:56 |
Originally posted by Dolphin
Pinguin, how is Latin America so brilliant?!! I just cant get my head around it!!
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. What do you mean? I don't get the point. No bisons in Latin America
Originally posted by Dolphin
Bison were too diffiucult to domesticate, they was no need to domesticate them as indians had a tradition of moving from area to area, following the herds, and it simply was not in the Indian culture to domesticate. |
That was already said above..
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Dolphin
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Posted: 19-Nov-2007 at 16:02 |
Yeah, I just looooove to re-iterate!!
Na, actually I just wanted to have a dig at your blatant anti-english/western sentiments and had to somehow relate the post back to the topic....Well Whadya know?! Caught in my own trap!
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Posted: 19-Nov-2007 at 16:26 |
anti-western feelings? come on. What most Western than the "Holy" Catholic Church? . Read "Mio Cid" and you'll figure it out what I mean.
Besides, never hear about the origin of the Arthurian tales about the Holly Grail? They are Spanish! Ole!
Edited by pinguin - 19-Nov-2007 at 16:27
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red clay
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Posted: 19-Nov-2007 at 23:53 |
Originally posted by pinguin
anti-western feelings? come on. What most Western than the "Holy" Catholic Church? . Read "Mio Cid" and you'll figure it out what I mean.
Besides, never hear about the origin of the Arthurian tales about the Holly Grail? They are Spanish! Ole! |
Pinguin-
Knock it off.
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"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
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Posted: 20-Nov-2007 at 00:03 |
Originally posted by red clay
Pinguin-
Knock it off. |
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jdalton
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Posted: 20-Nov-2007 at 19:14 |
From what everyone has said so far, it seems like domestication of animals is largely tied to agriculture (dogs and horses being an exception). So I guess what you would need to do is look at the people in central North America who were farming, and I think this was only happening along the banks of the Mississippi and in the Eastern Woodlands (and Southeastern US and Southwest, but I don't think there were any bison there) and compare that to where the bison lived. Was there a correlation? Were the Mississippians hunting bison at all?
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ConradWeiser
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Posted: 20-Nov-2007 at 20:35 |
Originally posted by Dolphin
Bison were too diffiucult to domesticate, they was no need to domesticate them as indians had a tradition of moving from area to area, following the herds, and it simply was not in the Indian culture to domesticate. |
Just wanted to say some things.
First of all, the Amerindians of the plains were semi-nomadic. They relied heavily on farming, moving about when conditions required it. Many of the Plains tribes were not truly nomadic until after the arrival of the horse, which transformed their culture and allowed them to finally follow the herds.
In general, very few American Indians had traditions of moving from area to area. Amerindians were tightly attached, both spiritually and historically, to their homelands, and, ironically enough, they saw the settler Europeans as nomadic and wandering. Therefore, I don't see this as an arguement against the domestication of the Bison.
Secondly, the idea that it wasn't in the Amerindian culture to domesticate is not very valid either, for several animals were domesticated in the Americas, including the dog, llama, and turkey, amongst others. They were also very quick to take advantage of the horse, though it arrived to them already domesticated.
I think the first thing said, that bison are difficult to domesticate, is the key argument for this topic. Bison are fairly aggressive, skittish, and powerful creatures. They hence lacked one of the key elements of domesticatable animals, as is shown here on Jerad Diamond's website: http://www.pbs.org/gunsgermssteel/variables/cattle.html
I hope I cleared some issues up.
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Another year! Another deadly blow!
Another mighty empire overthrown!
And we are left, or shall be left, alone.
-William Wordsworth
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