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Nick1986
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Topic: Turks & Mongols Posted: 06-Jun-2012 at 20:00 |
According to this book the Turks and Mongols shared the same ancestors: the Altaic people. Other members of this ethnicity include the Huns, Sarmatians and Scythians http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=t0JwYHsv-6AC&lpg=PT17&dq=turks%20mongols&pg=PT17#v=onepage&q&f=false
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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
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xi_tujue
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Posted: 02-Dec-2007 at 23:13 |
I'm just going to ignore that
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I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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Young Tatar
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Posted: 02-Dec-2007 at 09:27 |
Hello, I think Mongols were Turkish people but they were different people.
Edited by Young Tatar - 02-Dec-2007 at 09:28
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xi_tujue
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Posted: 16-Nov-2007 at 21:38 |
I looked it up there called sino-tibetan
there 2 main groups
the chinese & the Tibetan-burmeese apperantly
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I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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Temujin
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Posted: 16-Nov-2007 at 21:34 |
Originally posted by xi_tujue
i thought they were called sino-tibetan peoples or somethin like that
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in my ethnicites book they are in the 'tibeto-burmese' langauge group.
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DayI
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Posted: 16-Nov-2007 at 12:40 |
I think Turkic tribes where much more in number then the mongolian ones, also not to forget the assimilated Turkic tribes in eastern europe (avars-bulgars-kuman and many others). So this means we where huge in numbers.
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xi_tujue
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Posted: 15-Nov-2007 at 22:12 |
i thought they were called sino-tibetan peoples or somethin like that
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I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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Temujin
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Posted: 15-Nov-2007 at 19:44 |
from what i know Tibetan is related to Burmese...
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xi_tujue
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Posted: 15-Nov-2007 at 10:24 |
^most of the things you said and were correct is allready known on this site The Tibetants are more related to the chinese. the Y-chromosone thing ..............Everybody knows how it spread and not millenia ago I can promise you that
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I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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Windemere
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Posted: 15-Nov-2007 at 03:20 |
I also suspect that many of the people of Central Asia/Turkestan (Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, Uzbeks, and Turkmens) are probably of mixed Turkic/Turanian and Mongolic descent. Also suspect that some of the peoples of Siberia ( Yakuts, Khakass, and the previously mentioned Uriankhai/Tuvans are of mixed Turkic/Turanian and Mongolic descent. Even though all these people are officially considered to be Turkic instead of Mongolic. Some linguists consider both Turkic and Mongolic to be in the same language family (Ural-Altaic).
I also suspect that the Mongols and Tibetans are closely related biologically, though they speak different languages. A Y-chromosome genetic study of Tibetans found that the population has quite a bit of variability in the origin of their haplogroups, some from Turkestan and some from the Far East, though physically the people are similar in appearance. ( Y-chromosome only tells what an individual's genetic origin is, the individual's physical appearance is determined by their overall genetic make-up).
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Windemere
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Sarmat
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Posted: 15-Nov-2007 at 01:25 |
The thing is that Subotai was very likely Turkic. It related to the problem of Turko-Mongolian mixture and interactions I had addressed earlier.
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xi_tujue
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Posted: 14-Nov-2007 at 22:07 |
duh
Subotai was just a good friend of Temujin since they were little
he was nothiong more than a sheep herder be4
This was one of the thing why Timujin and Yamuka fought about (eventhough the battle between those 2 was inevitable :D )
What subotai did was a cheap shot but nevertheless effective
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I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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Sarmat
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Posted: 14-Nov-2007 at 20:12 |
BTW, for example a famous Mongolian general Subudai was Uriankhai. Uriankhai is just an old name for Tuvans.
I remember, once Subudai even decieved Kypchaks by saying that they shouldn't fight him since there language and customs are the same. Later he attacked and destroyed the Kypchaks.
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Sarmat
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Posted: 14-Nov-2007 at 20:07 |
Originally posted by xi_tujue
I verry much Doubt that
The Mongolian Influence in Tuvan culture isn't that old. I mean I think it was after the establishment of the Mongol Empire
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What do you doubt?
Mongol empire was established almost a millenium ago. Isn't 1000 years that old?
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xi_tujue
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Posted: 14-Nov-2007 at 19:33 |
Originally posted by Sarmat12
Of course there were Turkic speakers in Central Asia before Ashina, all this started with Xiongnu move to the West.
There were also strong states like for example Kyrgyzs who were Turkic speakers.
In fact, there is a quite reliable theory that Ashina clan had actually Mongolian origins.
Of course, tribes with the close language tried to stay together. But there was a lot of mixture as well. And still is. Look for example at modern Tuvinians culturally speaking they are Mongols, linguistically they are Turks. |
I verry much Doubt that The Mongolian Influence in Tuvan culture isn't that old. I mean I think it was after the establishment of the Mongol Empire
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I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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Kapikulu
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Posted: 13-Nov-2007 at 23:44 |
Meanwhile the Mongolic were absorbed into Turkic and Chinese elements in Central Asia, it is also necessary to state that Mongol population was not huge like their Turkic counterparts and they were living in a certain area.After Mongol invasions, they had migrations, however, the Mongols were generally the soldiers and rulers.
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Sarmat
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Posted: 13-Nov-2007 at 22:35 |
Of course there were Turkic speakers in Central Asia before Ashina, all this started with Xiongnu move to the West.
There were also strong states like for example Kyrgyzs who were Turkic speakers.
In fact, there is a quite reliable theory that Ashina clan had actually Mongolian origins.
Of course, tribes with the close language tried to stay together. But there was a lot of mixture as well. And still is. Look for example at modern Tuvinians culturally speaking they are Mongols, linguistically they are Turks.
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xi_tujue
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Posted: 13-Nov-2007 at 22:25 |
Be4 the Term Turk existed I mean be4 it was used by the Ashina tribe. Was Turkic spoken by all of the Tribes of Central asia
and did they have a unity or was it every tribe for theselfs if so did the mongolians get separated i mean some joined the Confedaration and got Turkified and those who didn't stayed "mongolian'
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I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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Sarmat
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Posted: 13-Nov-2007 at 22:19 |
The expansion era of Turks started much earlier in 2 AD and perhaps even more earlier. The thing is that Turkic tribes were situated to the West from proto-Mongolians. So, they had more room for expansion.
So when when the proto Mongols Donghu or Xianbi, pushed to the West, they just triggered the subsequent Turkic migration further to the West.
So there was no actual Mongol expansion to the West per se until 13th century, while the Turkic migration to the West began somewhere aroung the start of the Common era.
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xi_tujue
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Posted: 13-Nov-2007 at 22:11 |
yeah but still
did the Turks allways have larger Numbers or did it happen after the 6 cent AD?(expension era)
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I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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