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Why Have Muslims Been Hated in The West?

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Poll Question: Why Have Muslims Been Hated in The West?
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Tobodai View Drop Down
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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Why Have Muslims Been Hated in The West?
    Posted: 02-Mar-2005 at 21:40

 

And actually Utah was not my original example of a potential christian taliban in America, I was thinking more the deep south and Kansas.  I just wanted to make a Utah crack

 

tell me do you actually believe the native americans are the lsot tribes of Israel?  lol



Edited by Tobodai
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  Quote Capt. Lubber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2005 at 00:45
Originally posted by Oguzoglu

Well, at least the terrorists have somekind of reason... (I dont mean they are right, I mean USA kills innocent people for senseless ideology, but these"terrorists"are trying to protect their country from invaders who killed their families!


Yes... So a palestinian is protecting his country by blowing up as many civilian israelites on a bus as possible?
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  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2005 at 01:34

Mormons are not Christians because they do not believe in the Trinity. Jesus is not only the messiah but the word made flesh, literally God on earth. There is no separation of God the father from God the son in traditional Christianity. (Nestorians, aren't considered "real" christians for this purpose.) If there is a separation than you worship multiple gods and not the "one true God."

No offense to you guys, some of my friends are mormons, but thats the rational for it.

BTW, if I asked for a a Book of Mormon, and then asked to be left alone, would I still get people calling me and ringing my doorbell, because I've always been interested in what's in there.

Also, how did you guys find the South Park Mormon episode? I thought that the Catholic one was extremely hilarious, with the consulting of the Giant Spider.

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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2005 at 02:48
South Park is my holy book, when ever I want to know something about life, Im sure I can find s South Park episode that explains it ..its so much more intelligent than it ever gets credit for.
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  Quote white dragon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2005 at 13:05
"BTW, if I asked for a a Book of Mormon, and then asked to be left alone, would I still get people calling me and ringing my doorbell, because I've always been interested in what's in there."

you would probably still have people coming to the door. you see, what we do is we have some area set up as an area for a single mission area, the missionaries are transfered around from area to area, and places within the original area. some its usually different people every couple of months. also they are supposed to go around "tracking" for some time each week. tracking is where they walk around in their little subdivisions of the area they are in and knock on doors and see if there is anyone they can give a short lesson to and possibly get an appointment for later to see if they can teach them more. if you need some clarificion(likely you do, that probably wasn't to clear there heh) i might be able to get one of my leaders in to post sometime.


"Also, how did you guys find the South Park Mormon episode? I thought that the Catholic one was extremely hilarious, with the consulting of the Giant Spider. "

i don't watch too much tv in general, even less of south park, maybe 1 episode a year, maybe. and i haven't seen that one.

"South Park is my holy book, when ever I want to know something about life, Im sure I can find s South Park episode that explains it ..its so much more intelligent than it ever gets credit for."

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  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2005 at 13:53
How did Mormons get on a Muslim topic?
They do believe in a trinity but it is not the same as the Christian trinity!! We have lots of Mormons in this area!!
Polygamy is the one thing they would have in common with Muslims. I sure if it was not for the government they would still have multiple wives.


Edited by eaglecap
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  Quote Degredado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2005 at 13:56

Originally posted by Oguzoglu

They do care? Yeah, these million dollars worth perfect planes, sheltering camps targeted smart missles, ignorant US soldiers killing innocent people on purpose and torturing Iragi people in military camps (opposite behavior for Genoa Congress and HUMANITY), and repeating mean sentences like "crusades" really show how much they care...

All I have to say is: BOSH! The only situation I see as being serious was the Abu Gharib prison abuse, and that has already been corrected. As for the use of the word 'crusade', it has a completely different meaning in the west than it does in Arab countries. Saying crusade to an aran audience is just stupid, not mean (and I don't think Bush was speaking to an arab audience when he said that word). I'm wondering, what does the word 'Jihad' mean to you?

Throughout history, soldiers, warriors, whoever held a weapon, have been usually rapacious brutes. American soldiers are amongst those who are the least like that at all.

No, the soldiers do target civilians. One of the newest things I watched on news about this Iraq issue was that an american soldier killed a defenceless and innocent man in front of a mosque where he was trying to take shelter to protect his daughter from american fire. They shot him because he couldnt communicate with them (as they say).

Show your sources. You should also take into account when one is fighting terrorists that don't wear uniforms, the slightest mistake will have the direst consequences. Think about it, your fighting an enemy that blends in with the populace. What would you do? Would you behave better?

About the Kurd issue... Turks didnt kill Kurds' families. This is even not declared by Kurd terrorist groups. Their wish is to build an independent country in Turkish bordered lands, accepted by all nations in Lausanne Agreement. So their purpose is not to protect the country that feeds them and they belong

I mentioned the Kurds because you wrote:

Well, at least the terrorists have somekind of reason... ( I dont mean they are right, I mean USA kills innocent people for senseless ideology, but these "terrorists" are trying to protect their country from invaders who killed their families! )

In other words, you are implying that the dimwits bombing their Iraqi countrymen were defending their families and nation from invaders. By that logic, shouldn't the same be said about the Kurds?



Edited by Degredado
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  Quote Le Renard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2005 at 17:59

Originally posted by eaglecap

How do Mormons get on a Muslim topic?
They do believe in a trinity but it is not the same as the Christian trinity!! We have lots of Mormons in this area!!
Polygamy is the one thing they would have in common with Muslims. I sure if it was not for the government they would still have multiple wives. 

We do believe in a trintiy like you said.  We believe that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are all seperate being.  We also believe that God the Father and Jesus are flesh and bone like man.

Well you are kind of correct on the polygamy.  Here is our stance

OFFICIAL DECLARATION1

To Whom It May Concern:

Press dispatches having been sent for political purposes, from Salt Lake City, which have been widely published, to the effect that the Utah Commission, in their recent report to the Secretary of the Interior, allege that plural marriages are still being solemnized and that forty or more such marriages have been contracted in Utah since last June or during the past year, also that in public discourses the leaders of the Church have taught, encouraged and urged the continuance of the practice of polygamy

I, therefore, as President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, do hereby, in the most solemn manner, declare that these charges are false. We are not teaching polygamy or plural marriage, nor permitting any person to enter into its practice, and I deny that either forty or any other number of plural marriages have during that period been solemnized in our Temples or in any other place in the Territory.

One case has been reported, in which the parties allege that the marriage was performed in the Endowment House, in Salt Lake City, in the Spring of 1889, but I have not been able to learn who performed the ceremony; whatever was done in this matter was without my knowledge. In consequence of this alleged occurrence the Endowment House was, by my instructions, taken down without delay.

Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriages, which laws have been pronounced constitutional by the court of last resort, I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws, and to use my influence with the members of the Church over which I preside to have them do likewise.

There is nothing in my teachings to the Church or in those of my associates, during the time specified, which can be reasonably construed to inculcate or encourage polygamy; and when any Elder of the Church has used language which appeared to convey any such teaching, he has been promptly reproved. And I now publicly declare that my advice to the Latter-day Saints is to refrain from contracting any marriage forbidden by the law of the land.

Wilford Woodruff
President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

President Lorenzo Snow offered the following:

I move that, recognizing Wilford Woodruff as the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the only man on the earth at the present time who holds the keys of the sealing ordinances, we consider him fully authorized by virtue of his position to issue the Manifesto which has been read in our hearing, and which is dated September 24th, 1890, and that as a Church in General Conference assembled, we accept his declaration concerning plural marriages as authoritative and binding.

The vote to sustain the foregoing motion was unanimous.

Salt Lake City, Utah, October 6, 1890.

http://scriptures.lds.org/od/1

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  Quote Le Renard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2005 at 18:02
Originally posted by JanusRook

Mormons are not Christians because they do not believe in the Trinity. Jesus is not only the messiah but the word made flesh, literally God on earth. There is no separation of God the father from God the son in traditional Christianity. (Nestorians, aren't considered "real" christians for this purpose.) If there is a separation than you worship multiple gods and not the "one true God."

Well we are the not traditional Christian religion

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  Quote Kalevipoeg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2005 at 18:14

To the question at hand, why does the west hate muslims? Well, the first thing that pops into my mind is propaganda and secondly more so, propaganda. Even the Iraq War has been used as propaganda material against muslims. Showing litle or none American crimes until it truly comes out as Abu Gharib did. I bet a journalist would not be let so kindly enter an area, where US marines have just blown up a civilian car with a family inside going to the market.

As one of my favourite songs at the moment says:

"Bombs to set the people free,

blood to feed the dollar tree

flags for coffins on the screen,

oil for the machine

Army of liberation, gunpoint indoctrination

the fires of sedition

Fulfill the prophecy".

by Lamb of God. "now you've got something to die for"

May sound radical, but the truth is the truth. The Americans are creating hate against amongst the muslim radicals and are breeding their own enemies. I can't see why it would be wrong to go kill a GI with a kevlar hat when one of his "Smart weapons" just blew up my family and half of my relatives.                                                                        

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  Quote Frederick Roger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2005 at 18:43

Ignorance is the mother of all daring. This question is rude, poorly-formed; in a word, stupid.



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  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2005 at 00:05
We should move the Mormon question to the Americas section since it started in America and it is part of our pioneer history.

I would mention that the definition of Trinity is not the same to a Prostestant,a Catholic or an Orthodox as it is to a Mormon. For me it does not matter since I tend to believe in God but I hate dogma and doctrine.

Meet you in the Americas section and keep this one focused on the question! what do you think moderators???
My old hiking partner tried to convert me many times but no success. He moved to Salt Lake City to find a pride, I hope he found someone right for him!!
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  Quote Jalisco Lancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2005 at 11:21
The Americas,Asia forum is dedicated to the ancient cultures. I believe that the Mormons issue can be discussed in here.
Regards
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  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2005 at 15:12

We do believe in a trintiy like you said. We believe that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are all seperate being. We also believe that God the Father and Jesus are flesh and bone like man.



On a Islamic site this is fuel for a big debate!!

Does God also have a human form- flesh and blood?
A big heresy for the mainstream churches!!
If the Americas site is only for anceint history then where do I post topics about the Coeur d' Alene Indians in the 1800s'???

Edited by eaglecap
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  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2005 at 13:05
moving away from the Mormon topic

Islam - religion of Peace!!
Help me to understand your interpretation of this verse!

And prepare against them all you can of power, including steeds of war to terrorise the enemies of Allah and others besides whom you may not know, but Allah does know. And whatever you shall spend in the Cause of Allah shall be repaid unto you, and you shall not be treated unjustly." [Quran 8:60]


     
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About Dhimmitude
http://www.jihadwatch.org/
Dhimmi is the status given to Jews and Christians under Islam. Throughout history, these religious minorities in Muslim lands have been opressed and victimized. Ending the culture of dhimmitude is a prerequistite for achieving peace and justice for all people in the Islamic world.
http://www.dhimmi.com/

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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2005 at 16:44
8:58 And if you are being betrayed by a people, then you shall likewise move against them. God does not like the betrayers.
8:59 And let not those who have rejected think that they have escaped; they will never avail themselves.
8:60 And prepare for them all that you can of might, and from the steeds of war, that you may instil fear with it towards God's enemy and your enemy, and others beside them whom you do not know but God knows them. And whatever you spend in the cause of God will be returned to you, and you will not be wronged.
8:61 And if they seek peace, then you also seek it, and put your trust in God. He is the Hearer, the Knowledgeable.
8:62 And if they wish to deceive you, then God is sufficient for you. He is the One who supported you with His victory and with the believers.

And He made unity between their hearts. And had you spent all that is on Earth, you would not have united between their hearts, but God united between them. He is Noble, Wise.

These series of verses regard disbelievers, like the Pharoe of Egypt and and other aggressors in time. Islam teaches defensive practices.

Nice propaganda though, on your part. Minorities may have had there occasional clashes with their government, but what else is new? Minorities in Islamic empires had the protection of their government just like the majority in religion. Or haven't you heard of any positive history in Islamic empires? Get real!



Edited by Seko
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  Quote Jorsalfar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2005 at 17:02
the muslims kill westerners in europe.Look at what happened to the moviemaker in Holland. 
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  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2005 at 00:20
Get real!!!!

I realize that Islam has made major contributions in history and it saved many of the classical texts but that does not discount the second class citizen treatment that non-believers recieve.
I have read enough Byzantine to Ottoman history to know better. I have also read part of the Koran but of course I cannot read Arabic so I cannot understand it. Words do have meaning!!
I am not singling out the Muslims because both the Jews and Christains have had their dark side.
You still did not interpret that verse for me!!
I do take in consideration that most (85-90%) do not view non-believers in that manner.
One question???
In America, why are the peaceful majority so quiet? Why aren't they protesting the actions of the radicals? I just want to know!!

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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2005 at 03:05
they are all the same religion anyway, in the grand scheme of everything, Christianity, Judaisim, Islam....all desert cults that have spread across the world because of the martial abilities of those who believe in it.
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I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2005 at 06:44
Originally posted by Jorsalfar

the muslims kill westerners in europe.Look at what happened to the moviemaker in Holland. 

It's not that surprising if you know how he used to behave against muslims.

furthermore I urge everyone to calm down a little
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