The French Army in XVIII Century

Originally posted by Joinville   You might as well claim that the British army of the 18th c. was pretty much the same as the one the Zulus chewed up at Isandlwhana in 1879.

Well....in many ways it was. But that's something for another time and another thread!

The fact was also more exacerbated since the shift of power from nobels and monarchy into bourgeoise. On the eve of the Revolution, the Monarchy was deeply in debt and had no ability to pay off. Totally different from Great Britain, France had no strong banking system at all. Perhaps this was the reason why Alexander Hamilton chose to drive US diplomacy toward Great Britain rather than France.

The structural army under Louis XV showed no real changes as well as innovation as seen in Prussia. It grew in an old-fashioned manner and deficit its own advantages. Until the end of Louis XV's reign, the only strong characteristic of this army was lavishness. I ought to say that there were not many differences between French Army of XVIII century and French Army on the eve of 1870.

Originally posted by Temujin Originally posted by Challenger2   Just for entertainment, here are the Results of the Seven Years War for the Prussian Army:   Lobositz 1756           Prussian Win Prague 1757             Prussian Win Kolin 1757                Prussian Defeat Gross Jaegersdorf 1757 Prussian Defeat Rossbach 1757           Prussian Win Breslau 1757           Prussian Defeat Leuthen 1757                     Prussian Win Olmutz 1758             Prussian Defeat Zorndorf 1758           Draw Hochkirch 1758          Prussian Defeat Kay 1759                 Prussian Defeat Kunersdorf 1759          Prussian Defeat Maxen 1759             Prussian Defeat Landeshut 1760          Prussian Defeat Leignitz 1760            Prussian Win Torgau 1760             Prussian Win Bukersdorf 1762          Prussian Win Freiburg 1762           Prussian Win   By your logic, having lost more engagements than they won, the Prussian Army performed poorly. you've forgotten the battles of the Austrian war of sucession. it was basically the same army and the same commanders.

No I haven't. Jubelu was disappointed at the performance of the French Army during the Seven Years War in his initial post.

Originally posted by Temujin Originally posted by Challenger2 Oh, you mean the battle where the Russans outnumbered the Prussians 2:1  [5:1 in artillery]. Where the Pussian attack fell into confusion, especially at Norkitteln, where Prussian battalions fired at each other and the Prussians became convinced they were attacking an enemy behind field fortifications?....Yeah , Okay. Nice try. so where is the problem? the actual numbers of Prussians that won Rossbach were even smaller than the Prussian force at Gro�-J�gersdorf. Lehwaldt had the same chances than Seydlitz to win the battle.

Originally posted by edgewaters Originally posted by Challenger2 BTW Napoleon Bonaparte was an XVIII century General Only barely ... 1796.

Originally posted by Temujin after Dettingen France had to call upon Prussia again or face another siege of France.

After Dettingen (1743) France officially declared war to Austrian British,
So France began really Austrian succession war in 1744

Originally posted by Temujin in the peace terms France had to return the Austrian Netherlands and Savoy (Austrian ally) made some gains. you can never claim this was a French victory.

Later campaigns
The last three campaigns of the war in the Netherlands were illustrated by the now fully developed genius of Marshal Saxe. After Fontenoy the French carried all before them. The withdrawal of most of the British to aid in suppressing the �Forty-Five rebellion at home left their allies in a helpless position. In 1746 the Dutch and the Austrians were driven back towards the line of the Meuse, and most of the important fortresses were taken by the French. The Battle of Roucoux (or Raucourt) near Li�ge, fought on 11 October between the allies under Prince Charles of Lorraine and the French under Saxe, resulted in a victory for the latter. Holland itself was now in danger, and when in April 1747 Saxe's army, which had now conquered the Austrian Netherlands up to the Meuse, turned its attention to the United Provinces. The old fortresses on the frontier offered but slight resistance. The Prince of Orange and the Duke of Cumberland underwent a severe defeat at Lauffeld (Lawfeld, also called Val) on 2 July 1747, and Saxe, after his victory, promptly and secretly despatched a corps under Marshal Lowendahl (1700�1755) to besiege Bergen op Zoom. On 18 September Bergen op Zoom was stormed by the French, and in the last year of the war Maastricht, attacked by the entire forces of Saxe and Lowendahl, surrendered on 7 May 1748. A large Russian army arrived to join the allies, but too late to be of use. The quarrel of Russia and Sweden had been settled by the Peace of �bo in 1743, and in 1746 Russia had allied herself with Austria. Eventually a large army marched from Moscow to the Rhine, an event which was not without military significance, and in a manner preluded the great invasions of 1813�1814 and 1815. The general Peace of Aix-la-Chapelle (Aachen) was signed on 18 October 1748.

It was a French victory that left the gateway to the Dutch Republic open to invasion and the Dutch at the mercy of the French. The allied retreat allowed Saxe to send a detachment of 30,000 north across the lowlands quickly capturing the city of Bergen-op-Zoom to finish that year's campaign season. At the opening of the Spring campaign season of 1748, the French invested Maastricht and, after a brief siege the city fell on May 7. The city's siege started the peace process in April that ended the war in October 1748 with the Treaty of Aix-la-Chapelle. Maurice de Saxe's long series of victorious campaigns, sieges and battles in the lowlands ensured France's position as the dominant land power in the peace negotiations during which the sound of Saxe's siege guns could be heard pounding away at the city of Maastricht.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Austrian_Succession

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fontenoy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lauffeld



Edited by Tancr�de - 13-Nov-2007 at 08:56

Originally posted by Temujin Originally posted by Challenger2 Remind me, which one's that? Gro�-J�gersdorf. OK, the Prussian force was rather small but there was a chance they could suceed.

Oh, you mean the battle where the Russans outnumbered the Prussians 2:1  [5:1 in artillery]. Where the Pussian attack fell into confusion, especially at Norkitteln, where Prussian battalions fired at each other and the Prussians became convinced they were attacking an enemy behind field fortifications?....Yeah , Okay. Nice try.

Originally posted by Jubelu Then how do you explain the case of Warburg?

What's to explain? It's curious you've not mentioned Minden yet.

Originally posted by Tancr�de Prussia left the war in 1745. French conquered lonely Austrian netherlands and invaded United provinces between 1745 1748, in the same time they fought against British in India and North America Austrian Dutch and British even asked russian to help them, but after th fall of Berg op Zoom it was too late for them.

after Dettingen France had to call upon Prussia again or face another siege of France. in the peace terms France had to return the Austrian Netherlands and Savoy (Austrian ally) made some gains. you can never claim this was a French victory.

Originally posted by Jubelu The illusion that France was the most powerful mainpower was shattered right after the financial crisis of Louis XIV's reign. Not until Napoleon I enthroned did France enjoy her military peak.

France was maybe not so poweful than during the reign of Louis XIV but it remained the most powerful european state and the most populous.
Before Napoleon I during revolutionnary wars 1792 1797 despite of France was in civil war, French defeated almost all european countries on 4 differents fronts (Flanders Rhine Italia Pyrenees).
Even Romans never won against so many enemies in same time




Edited by Tancr�de - 12-Nov-2007 at 06:54