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Why i am wrong about the Aryan Invasion
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ranjithvnambiar View Drop Down
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Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Why i am wrong about the Aryan Invasion
    Posted: 15-Jul-2010 at 01:25
Dear Balochi,

I am not very clear about your concepts.So before going any furthar in this subject we should have an understanding on the terms we use to address people & things.
Can you clarify whom do you call dravidians..?what do they look like as per your concept..? I mean physical features..
Who were the indegenous people of Indus valley..?

Who are aryans as per your concept..?

Did aryan invasion take place ie did aryans invade the Indus & saraswati valley and drive away the natives..?When did it take place..? which period as per your understanding..?
Who were the natives of Indus valley as per your understanding..?
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Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2010 at 01:37
Originally posted by bilal_ali_2000

     Here is the picture of the priest king from Mohnejodaro wearing floral carved shawl
 
 
Here is modern Sindhi ajrak (Mohenjodaro is in Sindh)
 
Here is Munir Niazi a famous Pakistani poet wearing an Ajrak
 
Here is more elaborately carved ajrak
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Indian Brahmin with shoulder cloth &  hair tied behind head.
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Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2010 at 01:39
Originally posted by bilal_ali_2000

Here is a boat as used by the people of Indus Valley Civilization as depicted no a seal

 
Here is a boat as used by the people of Pakistan today
 
 

Indian Boat.These types of house boats were earlier used for carrying goods.But now it is used for tourism
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Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2010 at 21:39
Indus Bullock cart toy & an Indian bullock cart 
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Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2010 at 21:42
Indus seal with Indian elephant figure
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Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2010 at 21:42
Zebucattle figures
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Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2010 at 21:45
Zebu cattle
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Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2010 at 21:46
Indus seal with Indian Rhino emblem
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Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2010 at 01:59
Pashupati or Proto-Shiva of Harappa and various Modern shiva pictures & idols


The three headed shiva shown above is carved on single rock and is located near Bombay in Elephanta caves which is 1 hour journeyby ferry from gateway of India
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Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2010 at 03:36
Indus Fertility goddess and Hindu Goddess for fertility & prosperity Lakshmi
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Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Sep-2010 at 05:02
The terracotta toy spoked wheels excavated from the pre-harappan(5000BC-2500BC) site Rakhigarhi on the banks of rigvedic Saraswati(gaggar Hakra),Haryana India 
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Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Sep-2010 at 05:08
AIT & AMT proponants used to argue that Horse and even spoked wheel chariots were introduced to Indus-Saraswati valley by the invading/migrating Aryans but archaeology has proved these claims wrong.

Terracotta spoked wheel toys recovered from Archaeological sites of Rakhigarhi & Banawali on the banks of rigvedic saraswati river(Gaggar-Hakra) Haryana 
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Sep-2010 at 16:41
It can certainly true that Indains have preserved a very old culture from the region that they already live or a nearby region that they lived before, but it doesn't change the fact that they are linguistically related to peoples who live Europe and other far regions, these people spoke a proto-Indo-European language which was very different from the Indian languages, in fact linguists have proved that there were a large number of sound changes in the Sanskrit and other Indian languages, for example we know the proto-IE word dekmtan has been changed to dasa in Sanskrit, but desimtan in Prussian, dziesięć in Polish, decam in Latin, tasn in Armenian, sak in Tocharian, ...
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Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Sep-2010 at 00:55
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

It can certainly true that Indains have preserved a very old culture from the region that they already live or a nearby region that they lived before, but it doesn't change the fact that they are linguistically related to peoples who live Europe and other far regions, these people spoke a proto-Indo-European language which was very different from the Indian languages, in fact linguists have proved that there were a large number of sound changes in the Sanskrit and other Indian languages, for example we know the proto-IE word dekmtan has been changed to dasa in Sanskrit, but desimtan in Prussian, dziesięć in Polish, decam in Latin, tasn in Armenian, sak in Tocharian, ...

Dear friend what are you proposing by indicating a linguistic relation..?
Archaeology Genetics and Archaeoastronomy is telling a different story.
And even linguistics is going against the mainstream model at many places.Sanskrit may have close relations with other languages but it is not as close to european languages as it is to Other Indian languages.Many of the Indian languages contains upto 95% of sanskrit.
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Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Oct-2010 at 01:13
Unravelling Dholavira's Geomatry.
(Dholavira is a pre-harappan site at Kutch in Gujarat)
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Posts: 699 		  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Oct-2010 at 12:25
 i think sanskrit was heavily influenced by dravdian languages at some point, many many words in sanskrit have the dravdian sounds i notice. As a baloch from pakistan, i can understand several languages from the region, balochi, urdu, Dari/Farsi( atleast a lot of it) Pashtu, even Punjabi and hindi. And one thing i can clearly see is that Indic and Iranic languages though related are very different sounding, there might be a lot of similar words in the two language group however the sounds and pronunciation is a lot different in the two groups and make it sound two compleletly different language group. (Urdu) actually has kinda bridged that gap because Urdu has roughly 20-25% farsi words, however if you listen to other indic languages which were not influenced by farsi in recent times, they sound very different from Iranic languages and have more dravidian tone to the languages.
 
I personally think eastern european languages are actually more closer to farsi and other iranic languages in sounds and pronunciation of words then lets say most indic languages.
 
The famous indian accent which people make fun off here in the west is actually a dravdian sounding accent, I think Sanskrit has been heavily influenced by that accent over the centuries and words have been changed to sound more dravdian, that (dasa) example is good one


Edited by balochii - 08-Oct-2010 at 12:31
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Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Oct-2010 at 23:54

My understanding about the issue is different.First the languages classidied as Dravidian languages in India is limited to South India.So South Indian influence on North Indian languages is a very far possiblity because these two lands are seperated by vast distance.And South Indian Languages and North Indian Languages differ a lot.
Ofcourse there exists an evident sanskrit influence on some dravidian languages like Kannada and malayalam and even tamil.You can say more than 40%  of the words in use of present day malayalam are sanskrit.And the sanskrit brought and preserved in South India by several caste people may have been influenced by south Indian languages.

The Indo-European name of "Narayan" becomes "Narayanan" in malayalam. "Srinath" becomes "Srinathan","Shiv" becomes Shivan,Shankar becomes Shankaran.Even Sanskrit or "Samskrut" as pronounced in Hindi becomes "Samskrutam".Paani of Hindi is Paneeyam in malayalam.Raat becomes rathri."Vyaghra"(tiger) becomes Vyaghram. "Gaay"(cow becomes "Govu" in malayalam.Eye or "Nethra" of Hindi is Nethram in malayalam "haath in Hindi hastham in malayalam."Paad"(foot) in Hindi becomes paadam in malayalam.Nadi(river) is Nadi in malayalam too.
These loan words are pronounced very differently by south indians and it is difficult to recognise same word being spoken by north indians.
Even though sanskrit has provided many loan words to South Indian languages, I dont feel sanskrit to be similar to any south indian languages
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Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Oct-2010 at 00:01
This Sanskrit influence on south Indian languages might have took place because of the migration of people from Saraswati valley(due to drying up of saraswati) & Gangetic plain to South India.
My understanding about Hindi and other north Indian languages ie Punjabi,Bhojpuri,Gujaratiand even Marathi & Bangali is far different from South Indian languages especially Tamil.Tamil is known to be the mother of all South Indian languages.
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