Greatest Ottoman Naval Commander

Originally posted by ak�nc� Originally posted by Landsknecht_Doppelsoldner   Tactically speaking, it was pretty darn minor, and I don't see anything above which contradicts my posts (aside from Dimitri claiming that "enemy fleet is completely destroyed", which certainly didn't happen). I gave you specific figures, and you replied with unspecific propaganda.  Jerba was far more damaging to the Christian cause in the Mediterranean. Nom it was not a damn minor.Do you play chess?There are two styles of games;Using tactics and using pozitions.Andrea Doria didn't lose many pieces but got check mated in the second move.It was not a tactic battle where you loose many pieces but a pozitional one

 

LOL--you can take the comparison between chess and a real battle only so far.

Very little damage was done at Prevesa, in terms of skilled manpower (considered more crucial than the ships themselves, in Mediterranean warfare) and vessels.  It cannot be compared whatsoever to the losses suffered by the Spanish at Jerba (28-30 galleys, many sailing ships, 600 oficiales & 2,400 sailor-arquebusiers), or the Ottomans at Lepanto (200 galleys, 30,000 men, and 15,000 galley slaves liberated).

Barbarossa's victory at Prevesa, and his subsequent mastery of the Mediterranean, had more to do with divisions within the Christian ranks (the Venetians wanted to fight, and the Spanish did not) than anything else.

Originally posted by Gazi So its kind of like the skirmishes of Mohacs, Nicopolis,Varna and Vienna eh?

Originally posted by Gazi So its kind of like the skirmishes of Mohacs, Nicopolis,Varna and Vienna eh?

Not at all---the actions you mention above are all bonafide battles--very different from Prevesa.

You've seen the statistics I posted--make up your own mind about what Prevesa was, on the tactical level.

 

L D states:  In any case, if you want to talk about folks who were truly crushed, look no further than Lepanto.  The Ottoman Navy was never the same after that...  

Not really. The Ottomans under Selim II rebuilt the Navy with great speed that even the western powers were very surprised.

Originally posted by Seko L D states:  In any case, if you want to talk about folks who were truly crushed, look no further than Lepanto.  The Ottoman Navy was never the same after that...   Not really. The Ottomans under Selim II rebuilt the Navy with great speed that even the western powers were very surprised.

The ships built in 1572 were made of green wood, and the crews were unskilled.  As I already stated, skilled manpower was actually considered more important than the ships themselves in Medieterranean galley warfare, and the Turks never fully recovered from their staggering manpower losses at Lepanto.

It's really pretty simple, folks.

I am not trying to downplay Ottoman victories across the board, so you can stop with the jokes about Mohacs, Nicopolis, et al.  Those were major battles in every sense (tactical, strategic, etc), and were great victories for the Turks.

But, while Prevesa was likewise a victory, it was not won through any amount of hard fighting, considering the limited number of vessels that were actually engaged, and the small number of ships actually lost by Doria.  Tactically, it was little more than a skirmish, as Guilmartin stated.  That has been my point all along.  To compare Mohacs and Prevesa is a joke.  The former resulted in a total defeat for the Hungarians, where even their King was killed--it was the "Graveyard of the Hungarian Nation".  The latter resulted in Doria leaving the seas to Barbarossa, but with Doria's own forces predominantly intact.

Edited by Landsknecht_Doppelsoldner

This conversation is hopeless, you 're obviously not communicating so you might as well quit ...

I've stated my case.  I don't know what else to say on the matter.

Hi,
Ok I know I'm late but here is what one of the most famous (western)
historians, Fernand Braudel, thinks about the Preveza battle: it was not an
important fight actually, a few losses on the Christan side no more but its
diplomatic consequenses were huge and in this sense it is a major victory
for the Ottomans.
After the battle (even though Barbarossa's fleet had been destroyed
during a campaign on its way back) Venice decided to leave the so-called
holly league. As the Spaniards were unable to face the Ottoman with their
own forces only they had to forget all their pretentions to rule the waves
in the Mediterranean. As a result, their latter attack on Algier (1541) was
a complet failure because they had to do it during winter (which is bad
both for galleys and guns).
After Preveza during over 25 years the Ottoman fleet did not have any
serious opponent. But what was primarly in cause, in my opinion, was the
Spanish way to build their navy (a system mainly based on private boat-
owners and not chiefly on state ruled arsenal).
Bye