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French Revolution

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  Quote lastbout Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: French Revolution
    Posted: 26-Feb-2005 at 19:56
Why did Rougespierre,(sry not sure on spelling), the man who at first was against the death penalty, become so bloodthirsty and had so many people exucuted, many innocent people?
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  Quote Quetzalcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2005 at 04:45

 

 Robespierre; as he grew in power, he became more and morea radical. He eventually became a blood thirsty dictator, this was only a prelude of what to come.  Although not exactly Stalin or Hitler, at least he has charm, he became a radical eliminating anyone who opposed him. He would preach the virtues of the republic but at the same destroyed those who opposed. The seed of evil perhaps.

 But one thing  for sure, his reign of terror protected France from foreign invasion.By destroying the royalist he eliminated the internal threat and he made sure the generals did their job on the battlefield, otherwise they were executed. The result was that the french military defeated all her  enemies. Never has triumph been so complete for France, the enemies were defeated on all frontiers. He is a hero for the dark times, and a monster during the peaceful time. 

 From my POV Robespiere is a hero, a dark hero, he demonstrated the human being has a changing nature. He was once a pacifist and a defender of justice but as he grew powerful, the seed of evil was implanted in his heart and he started to use evil to fight evil and finally he was totally consumed by evil.

 



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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2005 at 13:03

Mod Edit (Lannes)



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  Quote TheOrcRemix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2005 at 02:02
total power corrupts.
True peace is not the absence of tension, but the presence of justice.
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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2005 at 03:22

Robespierre is one of the greatest men in all history, he could not retain power without harsh rule, he executed many people that would have impeded the progress to a new France, and scared many others who if unified could have toppled him, it says alot that despite the circumstance he was only eventually removed by his constituents.  Although Dumoriez defected after the execution of th eking, without the king there was less of a rallying point for counter-revolutionaries.

 

So basically I agree with Quetzacoatl except that I think Robespierre never became evil, just politically expedient, which is often regarded by people who arent me as evil.

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I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
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  Quote Le Renard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2005 at 13:13

Absolute Power corrupts absolutly

"History repeats itself because nobody listened the first time."
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  Quote Quetzalcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2005 at 01:50

 

 Robespierre noted in his book for the republic to function properly it requires:

1. food and provision

2. War

3. Public opinion and conspiracies

4. diplomacy

 One thing about Robespierre, he was a dictator but he never had absolute power. He was more the mouthpiece of a closely-knit group. The like of Saint-just and Danton had a big impact during Robespierre's reign. Who formulated the ideas? It was certainly not just Robespierre but the Jacobin as a group. It wasn't Robespierre's reign of terror or dictatorship, it was the Jacobin's in reality. How much part Robespierre had in all  this, it is unclear again he was the public face of the jacobin certainly, and some jacobins used him as a shield. Remember the Jacobin club was  highly secretive .

 But one thing about the Jacobin,  they were very hard to corrupt and very simple in their ideology. They knew what that they were doing, they strongly opposed federalism so that France remained strong against foreign threats. Under these conditions civil war would not errupt between autonomous provinces. They used a lot of propaganda but strangely they believed in their own propaganda because most of them were sincere. Saying Robespierre was corrupted is rather misplaced, he was more extreme, some sort of zealotry existed among the Jacobin.

 The girondists on the other hand were less extreme but they were unstable and were easily corrupted. During the reign of the Jacobin, Frances won a civil war and at the same time defeating almost the entire Europe (war of the first coalition). Under the Girondists the country became corrupted. So it should be clear here, a republic need a balance, nationalism leads to civil discontentment while putting the country in strong position internationally. Liberalism weakens the country to external threat and the country is more susceptible to corruption but the people enjoyed freedom. This demonstrate that a democracy requires a  proper balance , that's why the french revolution is such a great example, not because it was an immediate success but because it set the example through trial and error.



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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2005 at 15:13
Originally posted by Le Renard

Absolute Power corrupts absolutly



But precisely Robespierre was known as the incorruptible. So let's avoid simplification: that he was a cruel despot doesn't mean he was corrupt just extreme.
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  Quote boody4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jan-2006 at 03:12
Anyways it was the end of him once he executed his own friends Danton and Desmoulins!
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2006 at 04:02
just a little help needed.....
can someone please briefly outline the external and internal crises that endangered the french revolution?
time frame between 5 aug 1789 and 1795 thanx
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  Quote Kapikulu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2006 at 07:15
Originally posted by macomistress

just a little help needed.....
can someone please briefly outline the external and internal crises that endangered the french revolution?
time frame between 5 aug 1789 and 1795 thanx
 
The greatest external threat endangering the revolution was declaration of war to France by all neighboring European countries, and even distant ones.
 
They left their wars between each other and declared war on France to stop the waves of revolution, especially multi-national empires had done that(e.g. during 1789-1792 Turkish vs. Austro-Russian War, Austria signed cease-fire with Treaty of Zishtovy in 1791, and Russia got out of the war in 1792 by Treaty of Iasi, the reason to end the war is the revolution)
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  Quote Arbr Z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2006 at 10:02

Always existed a gap between theory and practice. The french revolution firstly started in the minds of a intellectual elite, which was excluded from the power. Robespierre was one of them. Those who ideated the revolution were inspired by humanistic values. But when they had to keep the power they realised that it was difficult as they had to do with the politically uneducated majority, (the people, the mass). So Robespierre realised that he should "educate" his state. Not all of his friends shared this idea, and Robespierre, sticking to his political-philosophical principles, decided to impone his dictate, as an unavoidable phase toward the ideal society.

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  Quote mamikon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2006 at 16:32
A very good book on the topic: "The Twelve Who Ruled", covers about everything you need to know about the French revolution. It is also a little hard to read, and requires a lot of memorization (of names) on your part.

As the title suggests there were 12 people who were elected to the Committee of Public Safety. Which is just another commitee and there were many at that time, members voted by the "Convention". The 12 soon got. As time went by the power of the Committee grew, on part because of the successful military expeditions of some of the members of the committee.

Robespierre actually was considered a moderate, and he was killed for being one in the final days of the Committee (along with other trumped up charges). Of the 12 only 2 or 3 survived the 6 years of their rule. Two were also sent to Guinea as a punishment.

Accidentaly the rise of Napoleon took place during thse times, getting fame for his brutal suppression of the mob, that had risen against the convention. According to Napoleon he cleaned the streets of Paris with a "whiff of grapeshot".
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  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2006 at 21:15
Originally posted by macomistress

just a little help needed.....can someone please briefly outline the external and internal crises that endangered the french revolution?time frame between 5 aug 1789 and 1795 thanx

    

If you see the revolution as a process (it is not but lets say it is) there were two kinds of internal threats: those who thought the all thing should stop and those who though everything should go back as before 1789.
First matter the nobles who emigrated as soon as august 1789 and then kept comploting against the FR.
During the period 1789-90 most of the threat were actually dreamt aristocrat conspiracies. The most important and most real problem is the resistance of the catholic priests.
More important even, around 1791, the revolutionaries start creating three main clubs (political parties that is) that on the long run are going to weaken the FR.
In april 1792 the revolutionary wars start against austria and Prussia (Brunswick manifesto).
The radicals revolutionnaries that take charge in 1792-1794 are in their own way a threat for the FR.
In november 1794 the Directoire starts ruling the country and it is the begining of the end of the FR as they are more for reforms than for the proper revolution.

M.

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  Quote Dampier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2006 at 08:13
Originally posted by Arb? Z

Always existed a gap between theory and practice. The french revolution firstly started in the minds of a intellectual elite, which was excluded from the power. Robespierre was one of them. Those who ideated the revolution were inspired by humanistic values. But when they had to keep the power they realised that it was difficult as they had to do with the politically uneducated majority, (the people, the mass). So Robespierre realised that he should "educate" his state. Not all of his friends shared this idea, and Robespierre, sticking to his political-philosophical principles, decided to impone his dictate, as an unavoidable phase toward the ideal society.

 
I'd disagree, people thought about revolutionary ideas BUT not revolution. That  was nearly unthinkable till the Flight to Varennes. Instead the first revolution was the nobles who wanted a constitutional monarchy like Britain. Then came the Middle classes and included to a degree are the populists, they wanted money/power to the people amongst social reform. These were the guys who began to think about killing the king. The final phase are Robespierre (or de Robespierre as I like to call him) and his gang.
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jun-2006 at 15:05
Originally posted by Kapikulu

 
The greatest external threat endangering the revolution was declaration of war to France by all neighboring European countries, and even distant ones.
 
They left their wars between each other and declared war on France to stop the waves of revolution, especially multi-national empires had done that(e.g. during 1789-1792 Turkish vs. Austro-Russian War, Austria signed cease-fire with Treaty of Zishtovy in 1791, and Russia got out of the war in 1792 by Treaty of Iasi, the reason to end the war is the revolution)
 
in fact it was France who did declare war on Europe (Austria) by responding to the Brunswick manifesto as Maharbbal has pointed out. it was then Austria who was able to rally almost all of Europe behind its conservative banners.
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  Quote Dampier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2006 at 08:11
I thought Brunswick Manifesto was after the declaration of war, during the advance on Paris?
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