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The bad side of Christianity
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hugoestr View Drop Down
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Posts: 3987 		  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The bad side of Christianity
    Posted: 28-Sep-2007 at 04:06
I saw that there is a long thread on the bad side of Islam. I think that it is only fair to have a thread on the bad side of Christianity.

Where can we start? Maybe on how Christians abandoned the teachings of Jesus, who demanded nonviolence at the face of violence, and how it became a warmongering religion since the 3rd century on.

How about the role that it played on colonialism?

Or how about the crusades? Maybe we should have a discussion on the religious toleration that has been a feature of Christianity for most of its history... oh, wait, it hasn't.

Let's explore the dark side of Christianity, and I expect the participation of Christians especially. After all, we don't want to repeat the horrible behaviors of the past... or the present in the right places.

spelling edit.

Edited by hugoestr - 28-Sep-2007 at 18:40
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Posts: 3335 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2007 at 04:43
Why bother starting this post? We already had tons of discussion like this before...  Religion is not bad. It's the people who corrupts the religion. That's all there's to it. Selfish people want to use religious means to meet their wants and needs. It's like a knife. Knife, if used correctly, can help everyday lives. Preparing meal will be a lot easier, and can cut objects quickly such as ropes. But if it was to fall to wrong hands, it may be used to threaten or kill people. Can the murderer say that he blame on his knife for his evil crime? Confused

Edited by pekau - 28-Sep-2007 at 04:47
     
   
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2007 at 04:57

Bad side of Christianity? The belief they have the monopoly of the truth...

 
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Posts: 1800 		  Quote Byzantine Emperor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2007 at 05:06
Originally posted by hugoestr

I saw that there is a long thread on the bad sad of Islam. I think that it is only fair to have a thread on the bad side of Christianity.

Where can we start? Maybe on how Christians abandoned the teachings of Jesus, who demanded nonviolence at the face of violence, and how it became a warmongering religion since the 3rd century on.

How about the role that it played on colonialism?

Or how about the crusades? Maybe we should have a discussion on the religious toleration that has been a feature of Christianity for most of its history... oh, wait, it hasn't.

Let's explore the dark side of Christianity, and I expect the participation of Christians especially. After all, we don't want to repeat the horrible behaviors of the past... or the present in the right places.
 
Excuse me for thinking this, but it seems like there are more statements here than actual questions.
 
Nevertheless, you pretty much answered it by pointing out that Crusaders abandoned the teachings of Christ. 
 
Furthermore, I would posit that the crusade preachers led many of them into temptation by wilfully ignoring Christ's admonitions on violence.  No where in the New Testament is there preached anything comparable to a crusade.  There is no advocation of violence in order to convert nonbelievers.  Citing crusaders and preachers using the Old Testament accounts of the Hebrews expelling gentiles from their lands is rather invalid as well.  The preachers knew that Christ said he came to fulfill the Law.  He also laid the foundations for the correct way to spread the Gospel and convert in the Great Commission.  For those who chose to follow Christ operated under a new covenant, not the old one made with Abraham.  The preachers of the crusades had at their disposal the letters of Paul, Acts, and countless saints lives as examples of spreading the Gospel in the correct manner.
 
There is also the historical evidence that Christianity went through a reformation in the fifteenth century.  Part of this movement had at its core the removal of violent and militant strains of Christianity in order to bring it back to its Apostolic roots.
 
Now, speaking as a Christian, I would say that the crusaders, the preachers, as well as radical abortion clinic bombers, KKK members, and other modern examples who twist the Bible to fit their own human ends, are guilty of sin and are in need of God's grace just as much as anyone else.  I would also question the sincerity of their salvation acceptance, if there are no obvious signs of redemption and sanctification in their lives.
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2007 at 05:09
I think it's time we have a "bad side of atheism too" LOL
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pekau View Drop Down
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Posts: 3335 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2007 at 05:10
Originally posted by pinguin

Bad side of Christianity? The belief they have the monopoly of the truth...

 

 
And you do?LOL
     
   
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2007 at 05:14
Nope... I am agnostic.
 
I also believe I could be wrong. It is just my culture that pushes me to be enthusiastic to expose my ideas Wink
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Posts: 1800 		  Quote Byzantine Emperor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2007 at 05:21
Originally posted by pinguin

Bad side of Christianity? The belief they have the monopoly of the truth...
 
Why is it bad for a Christian to believe in the exclusivity of his means of salvation?  It doesn't follow, as a result of his belief in exclusitivty, that he should then beat others over the head with it or use it as a justification for killing nonbelievers.  On the contrary, he should still follow the instructions of Christ and the examples of Paul and the Apostles in his efforts to convert nonbelievers.
 
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pekau View Drop Down
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Posts: 3335 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2007 at 05:24
Originally posted by hugoestr

I saw that there is a long thread on the bad sad of Islam. I think that it is only fair to have a thread on the bad side of Christianity.

Where can we start? Maybe on how Christians abandoned the teachings of Jesus, who demanded nonviolence at the face of violence, and how it became a warmongering religion since the 3rd century on.

How about the role that it played on colonialism?

Or how about the crusades? Maybe we should have a discussion on the religious toleration that has been a feature of Christianity for most of its history... oh, wait, it hasn't.

Let's explore the dark side of Christianity, and I expect the participation of Christians especially. After all, we don't want to repeat the horrible behaviors of the past... or the present in the right places.
 
Christianity has no dark sideLOL You are either Christian or not. Simple as that.
 
First of all, how do you define who are Christians or not?
 
Definition of Christian is of pertaining to, or derived from Jesus Christ or His teachings.
 
I can give you my word that Jesus never preached to massacre Muslim people during Crusade. Jesus clearly said that spread the Gospel to the end of the world. You mentioned that Christians abandoned teaching of Jesus. Then, for the love of God, why do you insist that they are Christians? If they don't follow the teaching of Christ, they are not Christians. No wonder they do bad things!
 
There are so many hypocrits who claim to be Christians. Don't even let me start all the religious factions claiming that they are Christians. Will you say that I am Muslim if I don't follow the path of Allah? Of course not. So whay blame the evilness of Christians by looking at crimes done by non-Christians? Gott, I want to slap you silly for still thinking about it this way...


Edited by pekau - 28-Sep-2007 at 05:44
     
   
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2007 at 05:29
Very nice pekau.
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Zagros View Drop Down
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Two words: American Evangelicals
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Posts: 409 		  Quote bilal_ali_2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2007 at 10:30
Originally posted by Zaitsev

I think it's time we have a "bad side of atheism too" LOL

I did and got flamed  badly for it
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Posts: 646 		  Quote Mughal e Azam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2007 at 15:24
Well, Christians wiped off populations in 3 continents: Australia, North America, South America.
 
 
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Posts: 2728 		  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2007 at 15:30
Two words: American Evangelicals
Those should be unspeakable words, they make me cringe! Not all are bad, but they are the main force that is pushing into Politics. Though I think their era is dying out due to events in the past few years and I'm happy they never had total rule.
 
Yeah, I definitly say they are a darkside of Christianity.
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Posts: 1230 		  Quote Adalwolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2007 at 15:36
Originally posted by Mughaal

Well, Christians wiped off populations in 3 continents: Australia, North America, South America.
 
 


Not to mention the countless women burned across Europe as witches. Or the peoples of Northern Europe who were killed because they were Pagans.
Concrete is heavy; iron is hard--but the grass will prevail.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2007 at 16:00
Originally posted by Mughaal

Well, Christians wiped off populations in 3 continents: Australia, North America, South America.
 
 
I won't speak for AngloAmerica or Australia. However, it is not fair to say that Christians wipe out populations of South America at all: after all, we are Indians, are least in part!
 
First, it is not fair because it is not true. Any serious genetical analysis of our populations show the Native element is still here, although diluted by massive immigration. An second and more important, because it were the priest the main protectors of the Amerindians in this continent during 300 years. The Jesuits, for instance, saved nothing less that whole countries!
 
If you go today to the Yucatan or the Andes will find that modern Mayans and Quechuas (Incas) are some of the most fervent Catholics of the planet. That's not a coincidence at all.
 
For Angloamerica and Australia, please people of there say something Wink
 


Edited by pinguin - 28-Sep-2007 at 16:00
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2007 at 16:02
Originally posted by Adalwolf

...
Not to mention the countless women burned across Europe as witches. Or the peoples of Northern Europe who were killed because they were Pagans.
 
And also in Salem... 300.000 poor women, many of them mentally ill, were condemned to die burn alive, because of witchcraft...
Pagans were very badly treated in Europe, indeed. There are parallels with the invasion of the Americas in there.
 
What a shame.
 
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Posts: 1800 		  Quote Byzantine Emperor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2007 at 16:04
Originally posted by Zagros

Two words: American Evangelicals
 
In other words, there should only be Christians who keep their mouths shut, with the end result that people do not hear the the Gospel, and finally that there are less Christians in general.  Yeah, that is really smart, to ignore one of the main commands of Christ.  And American - I guess that is a bad word in many "enlightened" circles these days as well. Confused
 
Now if you are using the term "evangelical" as a pejorative and political term (how else would most people use it these days), then I would say any evangelical whose words and conduct do not match up with teachings of Christ and the Apostles, is a sinner and in need of forgiveness like anyone else.  It doesn't matter what silly label they are tagged with.
 
Originally posted by Mughaal

Well, Christians wiped off populations in 3 continents: Australia, North America, South America.
 
Again, their actions are not condoned by Christ.  Any person who is literate can read Christ's teachings and see that this was not preached. 
 
Besides, in the pre-modern world, people were either Christian or Muslim by default.  There were not many places where one could be born and then eventually choose their religious persuasion.  So yes, there was a huge population who were nominally of one religion, who went somewhere else and subjugated another.  In the case of Christians, it does not mean that the tenants of their faith required them to do this.  The ones who could read for themselves, especially the preachers who advocated killing and subjugation, were/are guilty of a grave sin and are accountable before God.
 
Did anyone read my post at the top of the page?


Edited by Byzantine Emperor - 28-Sep-2007 at 16:10
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Posts: 1230 		  Quote Adalwolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2007 at 16:11
How do you know? They were just as sure what they were doing was right as you are, Byzantine.
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Posts: 3638 		  Quote ulrich von hutten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2007 at 16:13
Originally posted by Mughaal

Well, Christians wiped off populations in 3 continents: Australia, North America, South America.
 
 
 
 
 
If you exchange the term Christians with Humans, or even better MEN,
than you are on the right way.
 
Might be they did their abomnations in the name of their god, but the true intention was to extend their power and their affluence.
 
They used the name of a god, like everyone is searching for a jutification or his deads.
 
Here Christianty, Islam and Hinduism are having a lot in common.
 
Back to the top. By knowing that only, or mostly, men did all this things, your final conclusion will not be, to exterminate all men, won't it?
 
Christianity has as much bad sides as every creature on this planet has bad sides. Not more and not less.

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