Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)
The Perfect Religion |
Post Reply 
|
Page 123> |
| Author |
 Share Topic Printable Version Google Delicious Digg StumbleUpon Windows Live Yahoo Bookmarks reddit Facebook MySpace Newsvine Furl Topic Search  Topic Options
|
|
Paul 
General 
AE Immoderator Joined: 21-Aug-2004 Location: Hyperborea Online Status: Offline Posts: 952 |
 Quote Reply
 Topic: The Perfect ReligionPosted: 23-Sep-2007 at 16:21 |
|
|
God is generally reguared to be perfect and it naturally follows that anything made by god is perfect, whereas things made by men a flawed.
So if both god and a number of men all had a go at creating a religion, the religion god created would be perfect but all the religions the men created would be flawed.
It would be like one man created a bicycle, another a soapbox cart and god created a formula one racer. Or if they bought you a meal one man would buy you a hotdog, another a hamburger and god a six course meal by a 3 star michelan chef.
So god's religion would be so far superior to any created by man no persdon on earth could fail to reconised it. It would wipe the other religions off the earth in a day......
This hasn't happened, there's only one conclusion.
|
||
|
Light blue touch paper and stand well back
http://www.maquahuitl.co.uk http://www.toltecitztli.co.uk |
||
 |
||
|
Chilbudios
Arch Duke 
Joined: 11-May-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1900 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 23-Sep-2007 at 17:33 |
|
|
Ye. but you haven't shown that god's purpose was to build a religion or that he built a religion. You haven't shown god would want that religion to be easily recognized. I think the classical "Problem of Evil" works much better ...
|
||
|
||
|
Akolouthos
Sultan 
Joined: 24-Feb-2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2091 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 23-Sep-2007 at 18:14 |
|
|
This might add a bit of context Paul. Gregory of Nyssa once said that one of the reasons God created man was to have a being capable of interacting with Him and returning His love. In light of this, it would seem that God, for whom all things are possible, created a religion in which He allows man to play a part, at least in Christian belief. As stewards of the kingdom of God, we are granted the ability to play an active role in that kingdom. The long and short of it is this: no, I don't agree with the following:
-Akolouthos Edited by Akolouthos - 23-Sep-2007 at 18:15 |
||
|
||
|
Guests
Guest 
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 23-Sep-2007 at 18:35 |
|
Isn't that a bit selfish, to create a humans (suffering an all) because you want to be loved? Besides, why does an omnipotent god even need love? |
||
|
||
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 23-Sep-2007 at 20:15 |
|
|
Perfect religion?
Free thinking!
|
||
|
||
|
Akolouthos
Sultan
Joined: 24-Feb-2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2091 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 23-Sep-2007 at 21:19 |
|
Well, nobody ever said that He needed it; indeed our reciprocation is necessary for our survival, not His.
You see God's creation of humans as selfish because part of our purpose is to love Him. I see God's creation of humans as an act of unspeakable generosity precisely because He has chosen to share His love with us.
-Akolouthos
|
||
|
||
|
Justinian
Chieftain 
King of Númenor Joined: 11-Nov-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 1399 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 24-Sep-2007 at 01:04 |
|
|
Until humans become perfect there will never be a perfect religion. You just have to pick and choose; choose aspects of the religions we do have, adopt one of those religions completely or none at all.
There are some good ones out there to choose from.
|
||
|
"War is a cowardly escape from the problems of peace."--Thomas Mann
|
||
|
||
|
snowybeagle
Baron 
Joined: 02-Aug-2004 Location: Singapore Online Status: Offline Posts: 474 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 24-Sep-2007 at 02:21 |
|
However, this assumption does not hold true at all in real life.
A formula one racer will win a bicycle or a soapbox cart if they are competing around a racetrack.
But what if they are racing across the outback, or up the mountain, or down the hill?
The six course meal by a 3-star Michelin chef is nice, but it is not a viable choice for mountain climbers.
So the fallacy here lies in the assumption that religion can be benchmarked on a common standard when in real life, different people have different expectations and requirements with respect to religion.
Of course, one can argue that a perfect god should be able to make a perfect religion that meets each and every individual's needs, regardless of how different these needs are.
The presumption then is that a god should be catering to the expectations of humans, instead of behaving like god and tell humans what he expects from them, which IMO, isn't really a god but a genie.
Even as a mere mortal, I am free to decide what I want, to be able to tell my friends they better respect my rules when they are under my roof, instead of people telling what I should be doing before they'll deign visit me.
I don't think a god who cannot do even that is really god.
|
||
|
||
|
Justinian
Chieftain
King of Númenor Joined: 11-Nov-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 1399 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 24-Sep-2007 at 02:34 |
|
|
An important point too is that if god were to create a perfect religion for us, then that would offset the whole idea of freedom of choice. God allowed us free will, as the phrase goes; we have to live our own life, no one can live it for us. One could say that is the reason there is no perfect religion. |
||
|
"War is a cowardly escape from the problems of peace."--Thomas Mann
|
||
|
||
|
Omar al Hashim
King 
Suspended Joined: 05-Jan-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5697 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 24-Sep-2007 at 03:27 |
|
|
Paul you are absolutely right except for one thing:
The Quran says (most accurately in my opinion) that even if God were to appear in the sky there would still be people who dispute. So God's religion is superior to any created by man, but man is perfectly able to fail to notice. What you describe has already happened, several times actually because men keep interfering. Edited by Omar al Hashim - 24-Sep-2007 at 03:27 |
||
|
||
|
malizai_
Sultan
Alcinous Joined: 05-Feb-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2252 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 24-Sep-2007 at 20:51 |
|
|
To build upon the above, the Islamic God built the imperfect man by design and not due to inability.
Imam Ahmed relates in hadith(to the effect of): That If the created men of God had reached perfection, God would replace them with people that erred and sought forgiveness.
For the Islamic God prescribes only 'one' purpose to mankind, to worhip.
When Jesus said: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone", he was referring to the same inherent weakness that 'allows' men to succumb to their personal wills and desires, which run contrary to the ordained laws. When Jesus drove the moneychangers(usury) from the temple, the moneychanegers were not oblivious to the prohibition.
|
||
|
||
|
JanusRook
Sultan
Ad Maiorem Dei Gloriam Joined: 03-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2419 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 24-Sep-2007 at 23:24 |
|
That God hasn't fully revealed his religion to us yet? Edited by JanusRook - 25-Sep-2007 at 19:17 |
||
|
Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative.
Unless otherwise noted source is wiki. |
||
|
||
|
Ponce de Leon
Caliph 
Lonce De Peon Joined: 11-Jan-2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2967 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 26-Sep-2007 at 17:17 |
|
|
Yo guys want to know the best religion? Hah thats an easy one. Its the religion this guy is a part of!
|
||
|
||
|
arch.buff
Colonel 
Joined: 18-Oct-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 606 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 27-Sep-2007 at 00:22 |
|
|
God gave us truth and reason, not religion.
|
||
|
Be a servant to all, that is a quality of a King.
|
||
|
||
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 27-Sep-2007 at 08:16 |
|
|
God makes religion which is perfect, men make decisions which are not.
Edited by Zaitsev - 28-Sep-2007 at 23:28 |
||
|
||
|
pekau
Caliph
Atlantean Prophet Joined: 08-Oct-2006 Location: Korea, South Online Status: Offline Posts: 3335 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 28-Sep-2007 at 06:51 |
|
No comment.
|
||
Join us. |
||
|
||
|
Omar al Hashim
King
Suspended Joined: 05-Jan-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5697 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 29-Sep-2007 at 03:54 |
|
|
So why comment then? Otherwise saying "No comment" is a very clear comment indeed.
|
||
|
||
|
pekau
Caliph
Atlantean Prophet Joined: 08-Oct-2006 Location: Korea, South Online Status: Offline Posts: 3335 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 29-Sep-2007 at 04:40 |
|
Exactly.
|
||
|
Join us. |
||
|
||
|
Omar al Hashim
King
Suspended Joined: 05-Jan-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5697 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 29-Sep-2007 at 08:27 |
|
|
lol,
|
||
|
||
|
JanusRook
Sultan
Ad Maiorem Dei Gloriam Joined: 03-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2419 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 30-Sep-2007 at 06:46 |
|
|
Well I'd say that since JPII is dead, then if there is an afterlife, surely he would now belong to the "perfect religion".
|
||
|
Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative.
Unless otherwise noted source is wiki. |
||
|
||
|
Post Reply
|
Page 123> |
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz
This page was generated in 0.064 seconds.
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz
This page was generated in 0.064 seconds.
