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Topic ClosedWhich civilization influanced mankind mor
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aslanlar View Drop Down
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Posts: 124 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Which civilization influanced mankind mor
    Posted: 07-Sep-2007 at 16:47
My my, doesn't someone hate Turks?

"Turks took over weak North African countries"
Wrong. Firstly, Africa wasn't where the Ottomans penetrated for conquest of land. Secondly, there are things called colonial empires ;)
Look at the Ottoman map at its peak. The seljuks were the first to defeat the 'invinvible' byzantine empire. The Ottomans crushed the byzantines and penetrated deep into european territory. They had Russian land too, along with arab land (where were by no means weak!). To sum it up, it's asinane to suggest that Turks were up against weak opposition.

"the Greeks went round educating people and making a mark on mankind, where as the ottomans went around for the sake of killing and raping others"
If i'm not mistaken, didn't the Greeks kill the philosophers ;)?
As for the expansion of the ottomans, didn't the byzantines try to expand at all?

As for Ottoman contribution to society. One thing would be the toilet. Whilst Europe excreted into buckets which they through off their balconies into ally-ways, the Ottomans invented the toilet. More sanitary, wouldn't you say? Especially in those days if disease.

Tell me, when did the Renaissance start? The fall of the Byzantine empire also led the way, with greek intellects taking their knowledge to the west in Italy. Maths was also reestablished through the arabs after the crusades.

Kingbooker, if you're going to bigotry, then this isn't the forum for you.
Sure the Greeks may have influenced the world more then the Turks, but can you honestly say the Ottomans haven't influenced the world in a positive way?
Take your sh** elsewhere!
"The league is alright when sparrows dispute but it can do little when eagles argue" -Mussolini
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ConradWeiser View Drop Down
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Posts: 132 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2007 at 19:05
Originally posted by KingBooker

The Greeks invented democracy, mathamatics, astronomy, sciences including early powers of steem power. The Greeks were the first great civilizations.

 
Just some food for thought:
   1. The Greeks did not invent democracy. Democracy is perhaps the oldest form of government, as it is very prevalent in tribal societies around the globe. There is also strong evidence that the Sumerian citystates where democracies early in their history, and that the Indus Valley civilization had two democratic assemblies called the Sabha and Samiti.
   2. The Greeks did not invent mathematics. They certainly added to mathematics, but by the time Greece 'civilized', mathematics was already very advanced in Egypt and Mesopotamia. The Greeks merely built off the knowledge of the older civilizations of the time.
   3. The Greeks did not invent the sciences, though they did improve upon what had already been accomplished by Egypt, Anatolia, and Mesopotamia.
 
Originally posted by KingBooker

 
If it wasnt for them, there wouldnt of been a Rome. We would be living as if it were the medieval times.
 
 
Don't be so sure. Rome had it's own people and culture. Although they derived much from the Greeks, they also drew much from the Cathargians, Iberians, Estrucans, and could have easily drawn practices from the Persians and Egyptians.
 
Remember too, that 'we' did live in the middle ages for the next 1000 years after the fall of Rome, until the knowledge of the Greeks and Romans was reintroduced to Europe by the Muslims and Byzantines as a result of the Crusades.
 
Originally posted by KingBooker

 
You look in the dictionary most the words originated from Greece. Look in science books, it all came from the Greeks.
 
 
True, but Greek terminology doesnt always ensure Greek origin. During it's golden ages, Greece was a center of learning against a background of relative chaos. When Alexander conquered, Greek improvements where spread around the near east, most notably in Egypt. The ruling language was now Greek throughout much of East Asia, North Africa and Southern Europe, and Greek was used as a 'universal language' in mathematics, so that mathematicians from Persia, Egypt, and Greece could all understand. This changed little when Rome became prevelant, and the Muslim Arab dynasties used greek and latin terms extensively in the branch of mathematics. Advances during that time were extensive, (hence, Al-Gebr, or Algebra, and the Arabic-really Indian-numerals). Finally, once it had reached the Renaissance, Europe relied on Greek, Roman, and Arabic terms in mathematics, again as a universal language between English, German, French, and Italian mathematicians. It was in this period of advance that many new ideas and terms in mathematics were given Greek and sometimes Latin names, just to insure that mathematics could be understood no matter what country you came from. Same with science. Almost all dinosaurs are given Greek/Latin names, and we all know of course that the Greeks did not discover dinosaurs!
 
As to general vocabulary, that's only true for the European languages! Do you for a second think that Turkish, Arabic, Bantu, Hindi, Chinese, and Japanese words have Greeko-roman roots? Of course not!
 
And just for future reference, don't misjudge the Turkish civilization as a culture that didn't contribute to the world. All cultures have made contributions and every culture deserves recognition for their contribution to the world today.
 
Vae Victus
CTW
 
P.S.   I'm not sure, but I wonder if some ancient Greek mathematical terms were based on terms that Egyptians and Mesopotamians already used... Can anyone give evidence for this? thanks.


Edited by ConradWeiser - 07-Sep-2007 at 19:09
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Seko View Drop Down
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Posts: 8595 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2007 at 19:39
How did this thread get to stay open for so long? Back to the good old days of ethno-bashing 101. Aslanlar don't bother getting trapped into this flame bait of a thread.
 
Tell you what Kingbooker. It's Friday and I'm feeling generous. Give this thread your best shot. Blast away with your best superior ethnocentric intentions. Show us your prowess while I count the forum violations. When I or another mod feels like banning you the least you could say is that ,"one day a Turk allowed me to have a field day!".
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Posts: 1042 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2007 at 02:56

Well, its obvious that both kingbooger and crystall are out of line. And this is coming from a Greek, not that it really matters.
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Posts: 7035 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2007 at 06:22
Originally posted by ConradWeiser

 
Just some food for thought:
   1. The Greeks did not invent democracy. Democracy is perhaps the oldest form of government, as it is very prevalent in tribal societies around the globe. There is also strong evidence that the Sumerian citystates where democracies early in their history, and that the Indus Valley civilization had two democratic assemblies called the Sabha and Samiti.
Welcome to the forum. A very good post.
 
With regard to the Sabha and Samiti however, are you suggesting that the Indus Valley civilisation was Vedic?
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akritas View Drop Down
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Posts: 1460 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2007 at 06:53
Originally posted by ConradWeiser

   1. The Greeks did not invent democracy. Democracy is perhaps the oldest form of government, as it is very prevalent in tribal societies around the globe. There is also strong evidence that the Sumerian citystates where democracies early in their history, and that the Indus Valley civilization had two democratic assemblies called the Sabha and Samiti.
Sumerian city-states had monarchy as poltical form  and not democracy as was the Athenian . Each city-state was an independent kingdom, but sometimes one would dominate others.Sumerian King Listcompiled in ancient times, provides informations about Sumerian royal dynasties. There are over a dozen different versions of the list, and many of the kings are said to have lived impossibly long lives, reigning for thousands of years.
 
 
We may live in a very different and much more complex world, but without the ancient Greeks we wouldn't even have the words to talk about many of the things we care most about. Take politics for example: apart from the word itself (from polis, meaning city-state or community) many of the other basic political terms in our everyday vocabulary are borrowed from the ancient Greeks: monarchy, aristocracy, tyranny, oligarchy and - of course - democracy.
The ancient Greek word demokratia was ambiguous. It meant literally 'people-power'.
Aristotle in his Politics defined the democratic citizen as the man 'who has a share in legal judgment and office'.  Maybe is time everyone to read the Aristotle as the Great Alexander had took a lot of lessons as about the democracy


Edited by akritas - 08-Sep-2007 at 06:58
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Leonidas View Drop Down
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Posts: 4613 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2007 at 08:59
Originally posted by KingBooker

He was saying how the turks infulanced peace and indipendence in the world and more sh*t like that.
 
However I have replied in the past saying how people like Alexander the great took over the civilized world, where the Turks took over weak North African countries. I remember my mate telling me how the Greeks went round educating people and making a mark on mankind, where as the ottomans went round for the sake of killing and raping others 
what was this a school yard debate with your lunch boxs on you lap?

Yes the Greeks did allot but FFS so did everyone else. If you knew anything about the Ottomans, Persian, Sumerian, Egyptian, Phoenicians, etc  and thats just the near east - you would know that we all taught each other something we didn't know. To answer your question maybe you should learn about the ottomans and read what this forum has on both sides


Originally posted by Crystall

haha, what are you surprized about? He is more than likely a greek hater turk.
Did you ask him what exactly the Ottomans added to mankind? Once he answers those questions you let me know.
 
Now this thread might go out of hand but, it doesn't need to.
or a turk hating Greek - talking to a Greek hating turk. what do you know of the ottomans Crystal?

Originally posted by Crystall

Pounced on by turks in this forum... kingbooker this is a common theme, and from our great turkish administrator seko he has already made you look like the bad guy
here a message from you Greek mod, drop the attitude this isn't pro-board type of ethnic flame wars 'my country is better than yours' or 'the turks are stupid, greeks are fags' forum.

I strongly suggest you pull your head in


thread closed until everything cools down

on the actual historical posts by the others here PM me and i'll see what we can do to continue that discussion.




Edited by Leonidas - 08-Sep-2007 at 09:04
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