Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Attilas Attack

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
Author
Imperator Invictus View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
Retired AE Administrator

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3151
  Quote Imperator Invictus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Attilas Attack
    Posted: 22-Aug-2004 at 10:35
Legion foot soldiers can't pursue cavalry. That's why the Romans had their own cavalry to run down routers. Of course, during Attila's time, the Legion was no longer the main part of the Roman army and Attila's army by Chalons was mostly Germanic foot soldiers.
Back to Top
Yiannis View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar

Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2329
  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2004 at 04:22

There weren't any legions at Chalons (or Catalunian Fields). There were two "barbarian" armies facing one another.

It was Aetius achievement to manage that. I also agree that Aetius didn't want Attila's army destroyed as he needed him as a counterbalance against the Goths.

The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics

Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
Back to Top
Rebelsoul View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 73
  Quote Rebelsoul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2004 at 07:23
Originally posted by Yiannis

There weren't any legions at Chalons (or Catalunian Fields). There were two "barbarian" armies facing one another.

It was Aetius achievement to manage that. I also agree that Aetius didn't want Attila's army destroyed as he needed him as a counterbalance against the Goths.

Absolutely, Yiannis. Very true, on both legs

Back to Top
Yiannis View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar

Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2329
  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2004 at 07:53

Thanks!

The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics

Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
Back to Top
rider View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar

Suspended

Joined: 09-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4664
  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2004 at 09:30

two barbarians!!!

good- actually three barbarians for romans were against visigoths, attila was against visigoths, attila was against romans, visigoths were against attila, romans were against attila

Back to Top
ihsan View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 06-Aug-2004
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 831
  Quote ihsan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Aug-2004 at 18:02

250,000 is surely a very high figure, but I guess both armies weren't lower than 40-50,000. Remember that the Romans had Visigoths, Latinised Celts, Franks and Alans (real Roman soldiers were quiet few) whereas the Huns had Huns, Ostrogoths, Gepids, Burgunds, etc...

[IMG]http://img50.exs.cx/img50/6148/ger3.jpg">

Qaghan of the Vast Steppes

Steppes History Forum
Back to Top
rider View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar

Suspended

Joined: 09-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4664
  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2004 at 04:38
Huns could have got tghe hole East...
Back to Top
Gallipoli View Drop Down
Consul
Consul


Joined: 09-Aug-2004
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 318
  Quote Gallipoli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2004 at 04:49
Well there is Mongolian Vodka called "Atilla"
Back to Top
warhead View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 04-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 760
  Quote warhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2004 at 11:00
Btw, are there prove that the huns under Attila have stirrups? The first mentioning of stirrups in Europe is under the Byzantines in 602. Are there any records before that mentions the Huns with stirrups? If they did its odd that stirrup wouldn't be addopted by the armies around Europe until the 6th century, and many contriute to the Avars that brought stirrup to Europe rather than the huns.
Back to Top
ihsan View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 06-Aug-2004
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 831
  Quote ihsan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2004 at 16:41

AFAIK no evidences of Huns using stirrups have been found. They, along with the Xiongnu and Scythians, were the major non-stirrup-user nomadic peoples of Euroasia. The Sarmatians were the first Steppe people to use iron stirrups but it's useage wasn't wide-spread for several more centuries.

Even the Sssnids didn't use stirrups

[IMG]http://img50.exs.cx/img50/6148/ger3.jpg">

Qaghan of the Vast Steppes

Steppes History Forum
Back to Top
Imperator Invictus View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
Retired AE Administrator

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3151
  Quote Imperator Invictus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2004 at 18:27
Right. The problem, as you implied, is that they could've had non-iron stirrups that have decayed. 
Back to Top
warhead View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 04-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 760
  Quote warhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2004 at 22:09
If the samartians had stirrups why didn't their army have a advantage over the others and conquer the neibouring territories?
Back to Top
rider View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar

Suspended

Joined: 09-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4664
  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2004 at 02:39
maybe they had the stirrups but werent good fighters.
Back to Top
ihsan View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 06-Aug-2004
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 831
  Quote ihsan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Sep-2004 at 02:56

Originally posted by warhead

If the samartians had stirrups why didn't their army have a advantage over the others and conquer the neibouring territories?

They still managed to defeat the Scythians and end their domination on the Western Steppes. However, the useage of stirrups among the Sarmatians wasn't very wide-spread.

[IMG]http://img50.exs.cx/img50/6148/ger3.jpg">

Qaghan of the Vast Steppes

Steppes History Forum
Back to Top
warhead View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 04-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 760
  Quote warhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Sep-2004 at 14:22

But the sarmatians still got overwhelmed by the Germanic tribes in the end.

And why isn't it widely in use? if its proven effecitve on the field it should have been implied. Stirrup isn't costly or anything.

Back to Top
Evildoer View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 25-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 434
  Quote Evildoer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2004 at 17:50

Sometimes in history the things that were found to be advantageous and easy to impliment were not done...

For example, although Turkish armies with muskets were being kicked around by European counterparts with rifles, the senior officials and jannisarries refused to change their weapons because they were "non-islamic". I don't remember the exact reason, but I read this in a book on Turkish Empire.

 

Back to Top
ihsan View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 06-Aug-2004
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 831
  Quote ihsan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Oct-2004 at 15:20

Not because they were "non-Islamic", but because the soldiers weren't willing to give up their classical ways of fighting.

Besides, there were no battles where the "rifle"-using Europeans (more correctly, Austrians and Russians) defeated the "musket"-user Ottomans. When the Europeans were using muskets, so did the Ottomans. When the Europeans started using rifles, so did the Ottomans.



Edited by ihsan
[IMG]http://img50.exs.cx/img50/6148/ger3.jpg">

Qaghan of the Vast Steppes

Steppes History Forum
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.064 seconds.